Ok, so i bought the car last june with a fully rebuilt motor that had 25,xxx on it. I've barely put 12,000 miles on it and now i'm about to throw a rod. I always wanted to build my motor up so now it looks like i get to but i had some questions first. I was going to get the head machined, do a valve job, and possibly bore it .020 over if i have to. I was reading a post the other day that said when an engine is rebuilt the head is usaully machined down .020, or something like that, which raises the compression a little. I was wondering if it would be safe, or even possibly, to get it machined again since it could of been done already. And if it would work, how much would this affect my compression?

Originally posted by abnt89
I was reading a post the other day that said when an engine is rebuilt the head is usaully machined down .020, or something like that, which raises the compression a little. I was wondering if it would be safe, or even possibly, to get it

Not true. A head is usually machined down just enough so that it is a smooth flat surface (usually a few thousandths. Your machinist can actually check to see if its been cut. Our heads can go farther than .020 with no interference (of course depending on how radical the cam and how far the cut).

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Not true. A head is usually machined down just enough so that it is a smooth flat surface (usually a few thousandths. Your machinist can actually check to see if its been cut. Our heads can go farther than .020 with no interference (of course depending on how radical the cam and how far the cut).

Ok thanks. This brings me to my next question. I just dropped my oil pan and i hate to say but it looked like this.



I've pretty much done everything on my car except stuff inside the engine so i was just wondering what that means with all the metal shavings, and yes i know, theres a lot of them. I was just wondering if i would still be able to rebuild it or if i would have to buy a new short block and go from there. Any input would be greatly appreciated. TIA

looks like you might have messed up the cylinder wall. if you are planning on boring out the block you might be able to get away with it but you would have to take it to a shop to have them check it. but if i was you i would just go and get a short block from a junk yard or someone online and use that block.

Originally posted by biteback1000
looks like you might have messed up the cylinder wall. if you are planning on boring out the block you might be able to get away with it but you would have to take it to a shop to have them check it. but if i was you i would just go and get a short block from a junk yard or someone online and use that block.

???????????? i'm sorry but that is um most likely NOT RIGHT. Your cylider walls are fine i'm sure. That looks like bearings chewed up to hell. If that's circulating in your oil, i'd suspect that it's in your oil pump as well. NOT GOOD. I'm afraid to have to tell you this, but it's time for a rebuild. Whoever sold you that motor SUCKS at rebuilds by the way.

if you're gonna build it, now would be the time.

.20 overbore je's or whatever of your choice
eagle/crower rods
main/rod bearings
new oil pump
valve job
god, i could keep going

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC

Originally posted by biteback1000 looks like you might have messed up the cylinder wall. if you are planning on boring out the block you might be able to get away with it but you would have to take it to a shop to have them check it. but if i was you i would just go and get a short block from a junk yard or someone online and use that block.

???????????? i'm sorry but that is um most likely NOT RIGHT. Your cylider walls are fine i'm sure. That looks like bearings chewed up to hell. If that's circulating in your oil, i'd suspect that it's in your oil pump as well. NOT GOOD. I'm afraid to have to tell you this, but it's time for a rebuild. Whoever sold you that motor SUCKS at rebuilds by the way. if you're gonna build it, now would be the time.
.20 overbore je's or whatever of your choice
eagle/crower rods
main/rod bearings
new oil pump
valve job
god, i could keep going

Agreed. that crud in the pan has a brassy look to it. should just be a bearing.

a valve job wouldn't be necessary but if you're gonna tear it all down might as well.

Thanks for the advice. I was really hoping it wasn't the cylinder walls because i didn't feel like buying a new short block. Another question though. The reason it was rebuilt before i got it was because the kid broke a timing belt. So would they have already bored the cylinder walls out? Is there somehow that i can tell if this was done? And since i was already going to pull the motor and look it over i was just going to rebuild everything i can. Get all new lifters, valves, rockers and pretty much everything in the head because i don't trust any of the rebuild anymore. And i'm not ever planning on going turbo so i could really use some advice on what to buy for an N/A setup. All i've been doing the last couple days has been reading up on this stuff but i could still use some advice since this is my first rebuild. I kind of want to keep this under about $1800, or around there, if at all possible. TIA

Edit: I was kind of wanting to get some different cams, Crower 2's maybe, and was just wondering what i would need to upgrade in the valvetrain for these.

at this point your machinist is your best friend. If it's been worked on before, you never know. Walls may have been just been honed, or have been overbored. Either you can MIC the walls and everything yourself or just have the machinist measure everything. If you're engine is/was running fine, your valves, springs, everything should be ok.

Metal flying around with your oil isn't good for your cam journals or rocker arm rollers. Everything should be checked for scars or imperfections. Only at that point will you know what you'll need to purchase for a rebuild. Find a good machinist, and make friends. lol

...and don't be too surprised when you have to buy another crank and rod.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
...and don't be too surprised when you have to buy another crank and rod.

What year and car has the short block... or the long block

1995 to 1996 or 1997 to 1999

I thought this help and others too Like myself..

mybad about the hijack, oh wait a minute no I'm not

Originally posted by dalesmitsu

Originally posted by bullettdsm ...and don't be too surprised when you have to buy another crank and rod.

What year and car has the short block... or the long block 1995 to 1996 or 1997 to 1999 I thought this help and others too Like myself.. mybad about the hijack, oh wait a minute no I'm not

Nope, don't understand the question (?).

Originally posted by dalesmitsu
What year and car has the short block... or the long block 1995 to 1996 or 1997 to 1999 I thought this help and others too Like myself.. mybad about the hijack, oh wait a minute no I'm not

Don't feel bad about the hijack; Feel bad about your posts never making any fucking sense!

Originally posted by Fallen4ng31

Originally posted by dalesmitsu What year and car has the short block... or the long block 1995 to 1996 or 1997 to 1999 I thought this help and others too Like myself.. mybad about the hijack, oh wait a minute no I'm not

Don't feel bad about the hijack; Feel bad about your posts never making any fucking sense!

Sorry, don't understand the question at all but the longblock is in my 99 eclipse GS right now.

Before I go and buy any parts for the rebuild I was wondering if someone could give me some ideas on what to get. It is my daily driver so i want it to be reliable and get decent gas mileage, just a little quicker. I want to keep stock CR or maybe jump up to 10.5:1. Can I do that without having to go with forged pistons? Then I want to get Crower 2's and just upgrade what I need to in the valvetrain. (lifters, rockers, springs, etc). Will I need adjustable cam gears with those cams? I was hoping someone could give me some insight on this or possibly come up with a set-up that might work better. Thanks

Can't do 10.5 without forged. I like the JE's if you go that route.

As for the Crower 2's there is no need for upgraded springs or anything. The stockers will do just fine. Springs are for higher rpm and wacky lift (neither of which you would have). I've shown the stockers to be fine to 8k+ with the Crower's.

While it would be nice to have adjustable cam gears, its not necessary for the Crower 2's. You can dial them in a little better but she'll be fine without.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Can't do 10.5 without forged. I like the JE's if you go that route. As for the Crower 2's there is no need for upgraded springs or anything. The stockers will do just fine. Springs are for higher rpm and wacky lift (neither of which you would have). I've shown the stockers to be fine to 8k+ with the Crower's. While it would be nice to have adjustable cam gears, its not necessary for the Crower 2's. You can dial them in a little better but she'll be fine without.

Would the crower 2's be ok for a daily driver? I don't know anything about cams and I've been reading around on the site about people having rough idle and running really rich with these cams. Could this be the case for me even though my engine is pretty much going to be stock except for maybe getting it bored over .02 or .04 with a stock fuel system? Thanks

Originally posted by Fallen4ng31

Originally posted by dalesmitsu What year and car has the short block... or the long block 1995 to 1996 or 1997 to 1999 I thought this help and others too Like myself.. mybad about the hijack, oh wait a minute no I'm not

Don't feel bad about the hijack; Feel bad about your posts never making any fucking sense!

Ok,


I was asking about what year of our cars or cloud cars came with either the short block or long block.

Well someone said 99's came with the long block, thankyou.

This means 1997 to 1999 came with a long block and 1995 to 1996 eclipses, clouds came with a short block from the plant.


I know what you guys are doing and you're just burning me for the hijack. :7

Originally posted by dalesmitsu
I know what you guys are doing and you're just burning me for the hijack. :7

You are right.

The 95's came with only a shortblock... no head.


The 96-2018 eclipses came with a Longblock... Shortblock and head.
but they are fuel injected too so I guess they would be considered SLB (super-long block) cars.

Originally posted by dalesmitsu
I know what you guys are doing and you're just burning me for the hijack. :7

uh, no. we're burning you because your posts are always, ALWAYS completely and totally unintelligible. Just because you go by dalesmitsu doesn't mean you have to type like Dale Gribble from King of the Hill talks.

And where would a good place be to get all these parts from besides howell because I kind of want to get my car done this year? Thanks

NAPA or pep boys. Im rebuilding a 95 block rite now to put in my 96. Nothing special. These places are beter quality IMO.

Originally posted by abnt89
And where would a good place be to get all these parts from besides howell because I kind of want to get my car done this year? Thanks

maperformance.com

I buy the bulk of my regular rebuild parts from parts dinosaur. Well known, inexpensive and trusted.

As for the cams and head parts, I like Race Engineering. Excellent prices.

The JE's; Modern Performance is a good source.

I actually get my SS vlaves off E-Ghey.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
I buy the bulk of my regular rebuild parts from parts dinosaur. Well known, inexpensive and trusted. As for the cams and head parts, I like Race Engineering. Excellent prices. The JE's; Modern Performance is a good source. I actually get my SS vlaves off E-Ghey.

Thanks for the info. I've been reading around on here a lot lately and it seems like a lot of people have problems getting the crower 2's to idle correctly. Since I'm basically going for a stock rebuild and I'm not going high compression or anything (cuz i dont have any money), would it even be smart for me to get cams? I don't have anyway of tuning the fuel or anything so would stage 1's even work for me? I don't have time or money to get MSnS right now or any other SAFC so thats why I'm asking. Plus I want it to be reliable since I drive to school and work every single day. Thanks

Originally posted by abnt89
Thanks for the info. I've been reading around on here a lot lately and it seems like a lot of people have problems getting the crower 2's to idle correctly. Since I'm basically going for a stock rebuild and I'm not going high compression or anything (cuz i dont have any money),

Hmm, I understand that they may make it a bit richer with a little rougher idle, its gonna depend on individual set-up. They will definitely help you with a little more pop in the top end, but I hate to give too much advice on cams because putting up with them is an individual thing. A lot like poly motor mounts or exhausts are a personal preference thing. I do know that the Crower 2's had no effect on the dependability of the car.

As for the Crower 1's, IMO, don't bother. Not really worth the cost.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Hmm, I understand that they may make it a bit richer with a little rougher idle, its gonna depend on individual set-up. They will definitely help you with a little more pop in the top end, but I hate to give too much advice on cams because putting up with them is an individual thing. A lot like poly motor mounts or exhausts are a personal preference thing. I do know that the Crower 2's had no effect on the dependability of the car. As for the Crower 1's, IMO, don't bother. Not really worth the cost.

Ok I just didn't want the car to want to die all the time while I'm driving it or run really rich which seems a lot of people are having trouble with. So do i basically have to just let the ECU learn the cam settings?

The ECU will make slight adjustments over time based on the sensor inputs it reads. Swapping cams shouldn't be too big of an issue. Depending on the cam specs, rough or choppy idle might be normal, it would just depend if you could deal with it for the added power gain.

You could also look at what cimotorsports.com has to offer

I've been searching around here but I couldn't find an answer directly to my question. I was just wondering if I could use 4g63 valve springs and retainers in my car? And if so, what other valvetrain parts car I use from a 4g63? Thanks

Valve springs, yes, retainers no. If you turbo, you can adapt and use any of the Mitsu turbos. You can also use a Mitsu BOV. And if you use MSnS with an external ignitor, you can use a Mitsu ignitor.

In other words, not a lot.

Originally posted by bullettdsm
Valve springs, yes, retainers no. If you turbo, you can adapt and use any of the Mitsu turbos. You can also use a Mitsu BOV. And if you use MSnS with an external ignitor, you can use a Mitsu ignitor. In other words, not a lot.

Ok thanks.

bulletdsm - I know you told me earlier that if I got the Crower 2's that I would not need new springs or retainers. I called Crower and they said that with that profile that I would need the springs and retainers otherwise I would get valve float. I believed you that I didn't need them but I didn't know if Crower was just trying to sell me more stuff or not. Also, would the Crower springs work with stock retainers or would I need the titanium ones? Just want to know before I go and spend all my money. Thanks

crower springs work with stock retainers. Crane does at least. You talked to some douche at crower that doesn't have a clue. I love this world

Originally posted by 420agreenvilleSC
crower springs work with stock retainers. Crane does at least. You talked to some douche at crower that doesn't have a clue. I love this world

Yea I was thinking that but I wasn't sure. Aren't all retainers the same just made out of different metals? I found just the springs for $80 and then I talked to Dave Crower and he said the stock retainers wouldn't work with them and he wanted $280 for the spring/retainer kit. So if I don't have to buy the titanium retaniers please let me know cuz I really don't want to have to spend an extra 200 bucks if I don't have to. Thanks

Originally posted by abnt89
and then I talked to Dave Crower and he said the stock retainers wouldn't work with them and he wanted $280 for the spring/retainer kit.

Not true statement. I'm running them as we speak.

Sometimes, things happen at a company (say, for instance, employee turn over) and I'm not so trusting of their knowledge base any more

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by abnt89 and then I talked to Dave Crower and he said the stock retainers wouldn't work with them and he wanted $280 for the spring/retainer kit.

Not true statement. I'm running them as we speak. Sometimes, things happen at a company (say, for instance, employee turn over) and I'm not so trusting of their knowledge base any more

Ok that helps a lot. Thanks

I CAN'T WAIT to get the Longblock conversion on my eclipse!!! It's gonna be SOOOOOO Badass!!!!!