Sigh, when it rains, it pours. This problem has been going on for a week already, and I'm not sure what it is. I was driving on the freeway, and all of a sudden, the battery light came on. Hoping for the best, I just drove all the way home. Made it home safe. I guess that eliminates any alternator problems.

The next day, car wouldn't start. It wouldn't turn over, no power at all, no dome lights. I jump started the car, and brought the car to pep boys to have the battery tested, since the battery was just a week old. Everything checked out fine, alternator was charging, battery was fully charged. So now, I'm guessing I probably have a drain somewhere.

So I left the car alone overnight. The next morning, I started the car, expecting the battery to be fully dead. To my surprise, it started. So now I'm not sure if something is draining the battery. Didn't have any problems for two-three days.

Beginning this week, it started again. I was already guessing it was probably the connectors that were dirty or something, so I wiggled the negative terminal a little, and then the car started. Last night heading from work and this morning, the car wouldn't start again. The wiggle trick didn't work this time. I tried cleaning the battery connectors with baking soda and water. Not sure if I cleaned it well, but either way, no dice, car wouldn't start. So I was about to jumpstart the car. Cables were already connected to the battery, just needed to connect it to the host. I accidentally shorted the jumper cables by touching the red clip to the black clip. Lo and behold, I notice my dome and door lights came on. I started the car, and it worked.

So what do you guys think? Dirty connectors? Bad battery? New connectors? Where do I get new connectors and how do I remove/put them on?

Cliffs: Battery light on during driving, car didn't die, not alternator. Next day, car wouldn't start, no power at all. Jumpstart, alternator and battery tested ok. Problem happens again, shorting jumper cables power up car. Haha, hope that made sense. :P

Edit: Forgot to add, I'm using an Optima Blue top.

Could be an intermittant internal short in the battery. Next time its dead, check the posts with a multimeter to determine if there is any voltage showing at all.

So what should I be expecting when I test it out with a multimeter next time the battery's dead?

Originally posted by SonicYan
So what should I be expecting when I test it out with a multimeter next time the battery's dead?

Should see somewhere around 12v or higher.

Change out your terminals and check the ground. From your description, I'm fairly sure this is your problem. Battery cable terminals cost a few bucks (just bought some from Advanced Auto) and relatively simple to put on. My guess is that your bolt is not tightening down on the terminal quite enough. Also, follow the negative wire down to it's ground. Disconnect, clean up and reconnect. If you see any breakage of wire, put a new one on.

MB

Thanks, I'll try that out.

Hehe, I know its relatively simple, but how do you change the terminals? Do you just pull it out? :P

Edit: Ok, so do you just change the terminals, or the whole battery cable? Tried searching on advance auto, all I found were battery cables. Is that what I should be looking for?

I'm assuming the connectors are bolted on tight to the posts? My battery light kept popping on for awhile and I couldn't figure out what it was until one day I noticed the positive cable to the battery was loose on the post. Tightened it up, and haven't had a problem since.

I kept on thinking it was something severe. Then it turned out to be something that simple...made me feel stupid heh.




http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1185

Yup, battery connectors are tightened on the posts.

So just now, on the way to work, car won't start again. Did the short circuit trick, car started. On the way to work, battery light comes on. Made it all the way to work (half hour drive), turn off the car. As soon as I turn the car off and I try to restart, all power is again gone.

You might check out the fuses to see if the connections are varnished or something like that. My GF's mom's Monte Carlo was acting funny electrically and the only thing I could find was sketchy were a couple of fuses that were sort of bronzed-looking on the contacts. Replaced them with new fuses and it's good as new. (HG is gone, but lights work right.)

Good luck.

Hehe, so uh, do you mean to say check all the fuses? Or is there a fuse directly related to the battery/starter/whatever?

Originally posted by SonicYan
Hehe, so uh, do you mean to say check all the fuses? Or is there a fuse directly related to the battery/starter/whatever?

Uh... Isn't there a relay or something for the starter? I know this isn't the best advice in the world, but while you're waiting on someone who does know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to electrical gremlins, it can't hurt to at least pull out and look at your fuses, right?

Just did, well that is,looked at all the fuses in the fuse box. Nothing weird looking, like corrosion etc.

Originally posted by SonicYan
Just did, well that is,looked at all the fuses in the fuse box. Nothing weird looking, like corrosion etc.

Wish I could help you out some more, man, but I'm only good at running new wires. Sorry.

Its cool Driggs.

Well, you wouldn't happen to know how to change the connectors or the batt cable would you?

Originally posted by SonicYan
Its cool Driggs. Well, you wouldn't happen to know how to change the connectors or the batt cable would you?

Yeah. Done that before. They usually keep them behind the counter at Autozone. Might run you $5 for each one. Basically, you get the new connector and then cut the old one off. Strip back some of the insulation and clamp it down in the new terminal. It's just like a butt terminal or whatever, just larger.

I also had to replace the lead from the battery to my starter once. I had so much corrosion in the wire at the battery that the wire was shot. I didn't have enough slack to make up the distance. In that case, you get a terminal that already has a lead (I got a 4AWG lead on mine) from the battery post and a terminal for the starter. You can just disconnect the factory cable (runs in the loom that goes under the intake stuff up behind the fuse box) and cut the lead off if you want. Bolt the new lead to the starter in the same spot and run it however you want to the battery. If you got one with a battery terminal on it, you might find you need to get a longer bolt from Ace or someplace to be sure you can connect all those ECU wires to the post.

I don't have any detailed pics of the terminal, but you can see the starter lead pretty good in this picture.


You can sorta see the way my terminal looks in this picture.


It's sort of like this: <--lead to starter||TERMINAL||*nut*white wires*nut*

Thanks! I'll drop by Autozone and see what I can pick up. I think I'll be replacing the whole negative cable, not just the connector. Looks like I see corrosion in the wires already.

Forgot to add, so does anyone know why when I short the battery when I short the jumper cables, all power is regained and the car actually starts? Hehe, I hope this isn't too bad. I'm still at work and I guess that's the only way I can get the car to start.

Originally posted by SonicYan
Forgot to add, so does anyone know why when I short the battery when I short the jumper cables, all power is regained and the car actually starts? Hehe, I hope this isn't too bad. I'm still at work and I guess that's the only way I can get the car to start.

This is way outta left field, man, but maybe a relay sticking somewhere? Terry is really the resident expert when it comes to electricity, although azdave knows his way around a 2GNT electrical system. He hasn't got much left that's still stock...

Haha, gaddamit, where are all the resident experts???!!! Get in here!!! :P

I'll email azdave and ask him if he could take a look and offer any input, SupaYam. :P

1) A blue top optima is for a boat. You're supposed to have a Red top or Yellow if you have 1000lbs of stereo equipment in the car. Go down to the marina and sell it then get the right battery for your application.

2) Check for sticking starter relay. The relays are mostly interchangable, so swap a different one into the starter position.

3) Check alternator ground and hot wire. The alternator cables have been a problem on a couple of my DSMs when they aren't tight enough, arc, and melt down.

4) As mentioned, check the starter but this is unlikely because you said no other lights come on, and no fuses are blowing.

Originally posted by thedawg
1) A blue top optima is for a boat. You're supposed to have a Red top or Yellow if you have 1000lbs of stereo equipment in the car. Go down to the marina and sell it then get the right battery for your application.

But but but, the blue matches my engine bay... :P Didn't Mike (pnoymahal) have the bluetop as well?

Anyway, gonna try checking those things you mentioned Dan tonight or tomorrow morning.

Fuckin scary driving around with the battery light on and having to "jumpstart" the car by shorting the battery every fuckin time... :P

Haha.

You have a boat battery in your car. Autozone. Duralast Gold > *. Three years free replacement = one time purchase. :)

Originally posted by DR1665
I'll email azdave and ask him if he could take a look and offer any input, SupaYam. :P

Haha, thanks. :P

Mikey what is up? if you're in the area swing by I'll take a look at it. I'm like a pro with the multimeter now

Oh shit, sure, where you at again Erik? We'll see if chamy shows up tomorrow. If not, I guess I'm gonna head out to your place. :P

Not sure what more I can add here other than it appears to be a poor connection for sure. Arcing the battery posts is a pretty strong upset to the system but I can't quite explain why it results in a successful start.


When it comes down to it there is a pretty low parts count in the starting system so just good old parts substitution should reveal the cause.

Also, here's a tip from years of experience. Don't always assume a new part is good. I have chased many electrical problems that turned out to be extremely difficult to find since I assumed a new part must NOT be the cause.

Have you tried a different battery of known good condition? I've had one with poor plate connections between the cells that would come and go with vibration and load. That battery blew up nicely one day while heavy load testing it. That was fun to clean up and luckily I was turned away from it when it blew so only my clothes were ruined.

Sorry I can't help more but it's tough to diagnose over the net.

Thanks, Dave. :wave

1) Since when is 2GNT back up? there was like a week like a month ago that I couldnt get on...unless...I was banned ? *Shakes fist in anger at theDawg *

2) Been busy with school and yes...for shame I got a parttime at pepboys to finish my 4 quarters of school that I have left...hey its paying for food and gas and I saved for school So F U DRIGGS...sorry your just the one that stands out of the bunch...

k end rant, send it to the pits if need be.

On to the prob.

1)screw the baking soda, use a good cleaner, This is why people should just buy the damn battery terminal protectors...

2) Make sure the grounds are ok, use an multimeter.

3) get the right battery for your car, also like they told you, a new battery CAN be defective.

The fact that you have to short it out makes me think there is something wrong with the batt dude. When you do this you are letting full current run through it.

Now in a conventional batt the plates can short each other out. ther are spaced like IIIIIIII. now with age they form a sort of "bridge" with "deposits" ( i use the terms loosely). What I like to do is run a high amperage through em to melt theese... I have the feeling you might be doing something similar.

This is dangerous, it can blow up on you, or at the very least heat it up enough to make vapors.

The think is, you dont have a conventional batt, you have one with rolled gell cells if im not mistaken... so I am stumped... What tester did they use and on what settings?

Swing by my house tomorrow morning if ya can, or ill call ya.

Just to update ppl. I found nothing... Ground has near 0 loss.
All wires are good... Everything working dandy lol... hate it when that happens.

Pretty much what Ivan just said...

WTF guys!!! Hahaha. Yesterday afternoon and this morning, the problem seems to be gone. No "jumpstarting" required. Didn't do anything else to the car since then.

Argh, hate it when you're trying to duplicate a problem to diagnose it and then its gone when you need the problem to be there... :P

Thanks azdave for checking my post btw.

Originally posted by Chamuko
F U DRIGGS.

!!! Let's see how I do as admin for a couple years before we break out the official 2GNT admin cheer, shall we? :order

Never look a gift horse in the mouth, Yammie. If it's running right for now, I'd just start shopping for a new battery and terminals. I don't care what people say about the Optimas. I bought a Duralast Gold from Autozone back in late 1999 and have replaced it, for free, under warranty, three times since then. That's right, in ten years, it's the only battery I've ever had to pay for and it's lasted beautifully.

Don't see any reason why you couldn't paint a brand new battery before install anyways. The posts even come with plastic caps on them to keep them clean for you...

I guess... Gonna wait for the next time this happens. Then its goodbye battery. Time to buy some blue paint now... :+

Originally posted by Chamuko
1) Since when is 2GNT back up? there was like a week like a month ago that I couldnt get on...unless...I was banned ? *Shakes fist in anger at theDawg *

It's only partially my fault. I saw that the provider was down from a routing loop on Friday afternoon, traced it out and told Dino. Then we both decided it was too much trouble to call the provider and actually make them fix it. So I went home and got drunk instead. I'm pretty sure Dino did the same. It's not my fucking internet. It's your internet. Not my problem. We were both pretty suprised to see the provider was still down Monday but we were then too hungover to care.

Damn your engine is clean.... how do you keep that header lookin so purty?

Originally posted by knight ryda 99
Damn your engine is clean.... how do you keep that header lookin so purty?

He painted the header. What a ricer... :P

Originally posted by SonicYan

Originally posted by knight ryda 99 Damn your engine is clean.... how do you keep that header lookin so purty?

He painted the header. What a ricer... :P

Dude you bought a boat battery because it matched your wires. STFU.

Originally posted by thedawg

Originally posted by SonicYan

Originally posted by knight ryda 99 Damn your engine is clean.... how do you keep that header lookin so purty?

He painted the header. What a ricer... :P

Dude you bought a boat battery because it matched your wires. STFU.

Who said I wasn't? :P

HAHAHA!!! GADDAMIT!!! I think I fried the ECU voltage regulator or something. The car seems to be starting ok right now, no problems. I have a CEL, but normally its just the 31. I check today to see if something new came up. Argh, CEL 46, aka charging system voltage too high!!!

I finally bought a new multimeter. Fawk, 40 bux just like that. Anyway, checked both voltages. Voltage from battery was around 12.9v, while voltage from alternator was around 13.15v. Not too high right? So does that mean its the ECU that's messed up? I know there was one instance earlier this week where I shorted the battery while the car was running because of my old messed up multimeter. Car died after shorting, started right up afterwards. Please don't tell me I gotta buy a new ECU... :(

If you fried the voltage regulator in the ECU, YOU ARE IN LUCK! CODE4 recently had the same problem (likely from a short in the 2O2S power lead) and found a work around using an external regulator from a Dodge Omni or something. Find CODE4 and PM him. He is an active Marine, but he's out in SoVa with Aggression and them boys. I'm sure he can tell you how to solve this problem for less than $50. :thumbsup

I thought the voltage regulator was in the alternator.

Originally posted by thedawg
I thought the voltage regulator was in the alternator.

Perhaps on the earlier models, but I know, for a fact, that it was embedded on the ECU on the 99 models. Given the similarities between the 98 and 99, I would suspect 98 is a safe bet as well.

CODE4 installed a code reader when he drove the car back to Virgina from Phoenix a few months back. He had a brand new Mitsu alternator installed as well as a brand new Duralast battery. The light would come on at cruising speed and he was unable to hold the 14.7V or whatever the desired votlage is at speed. The car was tested at a Mitsu dealer who, big surprise, couldn't figure it out, but made sure to charge Dave's girlfriend over $700 for an alternator when it really wasn't the problem.

Upon installation of the external regulator, which he said didn't take long at all, he took the car for a cruise and saw the voltage hit the mark and stick there like nobody's business.

:shrug

The field switching coil is of course in the alternator, but it is the ECU that controls the field switching to regulate voltage.

Originally posted by DarkOne
The field switching coil is of course in the alternator, but it is the ECU that controls the field switching to regulate voltage.

til this day, I still don't know how Dino finds out all this stuff. The all-knowing Darkone!

Thanks for the info Driggs! I'll check that out as well.