I'm starting another thread because the other one is getting kinda long plus I really want this one to be about getting around the known issues of using the stock PCM and a 4 TB setup. Issues I know of ...

1. Vacuum signal (MAP)
2. Idle Air Control
3. IAT

Anymore? List them. Design aspects don't count as they wouldn't relate to the stock PCM.

Here are my proposed solutions ...

1. Vacuum/Pressure - I know that it's been suggested that a vacuum block could be used. Hate to burst everyone's bubble but it doesn't work ... at least well enough to maintain daily driving standards. The problem was that just tapping each runner and then running a vacuum line to a MAP was not really giving enough vacuum. I believe one neon owner almost had no vacuum at idle (5-7mmHg). That's no good considering all that is vacuum assisted and the MAP aswell. So that is out. BTW, don't mention 4 TB and stock PCM in a sentence at neons.org ... they don't like it.

Solution 1 & 3 - Vacuum rail? Kinda like a fuel rail but only used to connect all 4 individual runners. Granted this kinda defeats the purpose of having individual runners by connecting them but it might allow us to retain stock ECU components. For those that have done the 8-inj setup my idea kinda runs along those lines. Can't use a stock fuel rail. Will have to have something made. I'm hoping by using larger ports (instead of the tiny vacuum fittings people are trying to use) that it will allow the runners to equalize pressure b/t them at the same time the rail can be a source to draw vacuum from and have the MAP and other sensors placed on it.

Solution 2 - My best solution is to use the stock IAC on the TB. If say you used 4 stock 52mm TBs wouldn't wiring up the IACs in parallel yeild the same result of having one IAC? If you used motorcycle TBs you'd have to figure how to actuate their IAC mechanism.

Now continuing on. Most ITB setups on the market have this little wonderful disclaimer on the bottom that says that the use of an aftermarket engine management is required. That's all good and fine but my big question is how is the fuel map programmed for these cars? Most times MAP or MAS or some airflow parameter is going to be used but if most of these aftermarket ITB systems don't even have vacuum ports or soemthing like that then what do they use? TP, RPM, Engine Load. That's all that I could think of that it could use.

Thura have you looked closely at the design of the Electromotive TPK for the Neon. This is where I searched for my answers and design aspects.

Vacuum rail connecting all 4 TBS, can be tapped off the injector inlets on each of the motorcycle TB's, I'm working on a good way to do that without messing with the TB itself, if it comes down to it I tap the injector inlet for my rail (probably do this in the end). The MAP then plugs into the rail (seenig the vaccum of all four runners), so does the IAC, yes the TEC-2 was set to run an IAC. Plus the set of motorcycle TBs have individual idle setscrews on each TB. So there is room for adjustment there. The IAC housing run a vacuum line into the rail with a breather filter for air inlet. Ten all the vaccumm accessories run off the rail.

I don't see that a vacuum rail is going to defeat the purpose of the quad TB's you still get the main portion of your air from the TBs themaselves, just a little balancing along the way for vaccum.

Thura catch my on AIM and we can chat about this.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Michael,

I just looked at it. Funny, but it's almost exactly what I was thinking. I can't talk at on AIM from work. The port is blocked. I'll have some stuff on this drawn up soon hopefully before I send this all over to Clay @ Blackdog.

Shoot me an e-mail or something we can cover it. I have the design completed in my head, it's just a matter of getting it made up and fitment issues.

Hell I could draw up my thoughts and send them too you if you want.

I don't use AIM at work either, it's enough with the board, I don't wnna push it... maybe the chat though...



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Sure. I'll probably draw something up too. I think I have something on my laptop I can use. thxturtle@earthlink.net ... what email are you using now?

lol, I do tend to switch them a lot don't I?

michael_97rs@hotmail.com



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Here is a basic design. I'm sending this in an email as well to you Michael.

http://www.quietrage.com/thura/ITB Manifold.jpg

That's essentialy the design I have. Different location (up at the TBs). Don't forget to take into account an air inlet for the IAC. and a mounting for the IAT in the vacum rail as well. Then vaccum taps off the rail for Cruise, EVAP & EGR (if you have them), brake booster, anything vaccum driven.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

i have been reading this post for a while, i have been thinking of doing the same thing. But when the mention of vacuum problems i was a little hesitant to try this idea. I talked to a motorcycle buddy of mine (he's trying to find throttle bodies for me cheap). we talked about making a 2 piece adapter plate with a cavity in the center that links all the throttle bodies. The reason behind this idea is central points for all the hoses and hook ups. Yet you would still get all the airflow and a smooth vacuum. What do you think?

I just paid for my ITBs so I should be getting them next week sometime. 60 bucks shipped from ebay, not to bad I don't think. Plus I'm getting fuel rail so I'll be able to work with that and the injectors so I might be able to resell those and get some cash back.

I've been watching these threads closely and would very much like to work with you guys on this idea. I think it would be wicked trick if we can get it to work good. I mean nobody from around here has anything like this. Were I come from if you have a CAI and an exhaust your considered pretty cool.:wary

I hope we can keep these threads going so more people can learn and help!