Well lately I have been researching the beloved 2.4 swap, and finding all sorts of great information all around this site. But I have noticed, there is really not a single condensed thread or writeup with all the information needed to perform this swap. I keep reading that every person has a different way of doing it, and each way works, depending on the parts people use. So I figured we could try to get everyone that has done it so far give fairly detailed explanations of all that went into this swap to help all people that are currently planning on the 2.4 swap or people who will do it in the future.

So far I have found this(correct me if I'm wrong):

- Block from Cloud cars: Stratus, Cirrus, Sebring,(years?)
- Remove balance shafts, plug oil holes
- Rotate cam sensor 90*(advanced or retard?)
- rewire the injectors moving 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, and 4-1.
- must swap wires 1 and 3 running to coil.
- modified pt cruiser p/s bracket
- custom passanger side motor mount
- Moddified Oil Pan (2001 Dodge Stratus oil pan works well?)
- custom downpipe
- Time head like 2.0
- Can use SRT4 pistons and rods for a boost capable engine

I'm still unclear on:

- Which oil pump and what modifications are needed?
- What cooling modifications are needed
- What turbo8u is saying half the time(dank? :P )

I hope this thread will grab the attention of the swappers and help all future swappers and make attaining information on it easier. Thanks in advance

Turby and I did it pretty differently. I used a modified PT bracket and a 2.0L PS pump, i think he uses some Stratus parts and a 2.0L bracket & pump. Because I used a PT bracket, there's no pivot to the pump, meaning I had to buy an SRT4 AC compressor bracket because that's where the tensioner bolts, and then use an SRT4 accessory belt tensioner (slightly modified).

The type of oil pump you go with dictates the pan you need. I used an SRT4 oil pump (thicker rotors, more capacity) which necessitated using an SRT4 oilpan. A Stratus pump can use any of the stamped steel or cast aluminum pans with no oil passages, but you'll have trouble getting the motor in with the passsenger axle in place.

other than that, looks about right. If you use a MS for fuel and spark, you can leave the cam magnet and injector order alone.

Originally posted by DarkOne
Turby and I did it pretty differently. I used a modified PT bracket and a 2.0L PS pump, i think he uses some Stratus parts and a 2.0L bracket & pump. Because I used a PT bracket, there's no pivot to the pump, meaning I had to buy an SRT4 AC compressor bracket because that's where the tensioner bolts, and then use an SRT4 accessory belt tensioner (slightly modified). The type of oil pump you go with dictates the pan you need. I used an SRT4 oil pump (thicker rotors, more capacity) which necessitated using an SRT4 oilpan. A Stratus pump can use any of the stamped steel or cast aluminum pans with no oil passages, but you'll have trouble getting the motor in with the passsenger axle in place. other than that, looks about right. If you use a MS for fuel and spark, you can leave the cam magnet and injector order alone.

Excellent, thank you for your input. Does the SRT4 oil pan need modifcation to fit? I heard the 2001 Dodge Stratus Oil pan fit perfectly? I basically want a pan that needs the least amount of modification possible because the last time I modified my oil pan(turbo) I had leak problems.

One last thing I was confused about was the talk of Marking the cam gears differently then how they are normally marked stock. Which cam gears are these, the 2.0 or 2.4, and how must they be marked?

I searched for 6 hours yesterday alone, and so far these are my main confusions. I'm sure these questions have been asked before but I just couldn't find them. Thanks for the help.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
One last thing I was confused about was the talk of Marking the cam gears differently then how they are normally marked stock. Which cam gears are these, the 2.0 or 2.4, and how must they be marked? I searched for 6 hours yesterday alone, and so far these are my main confusions. I'm sure these questions have been asked before but I just couldn't find them. Thanks for the help.

They are exactly the same gears. The stock ones that I used had 2.0L marked on one side and 2.4L on the other. You need to put them 2.4L on the outside. But the timing marks have to be 180* out from each other. But the markes on the 2.0L side (head side) will be in sync. I was lucky, when the gears were stamped with the marker at the factory they got hit slightly on the opposite side, making so I didn't have to transfer the marks from the 2.0L side to the 2.4L side. I hope that's clear. If you have a set in front of you it'll make more sense.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
Excellent, thank you for your input. Does the SRT4 oil pan need modifcation to fit? I heard the 2001 Dodge Stratus Oil pan fit perfectly? I basically want a pan that needs the least amount of modification possible because the last time I modified my oil pan(turbo) I had leak problems.

They all fit just fine, as long as you don't try to run the exhaust under them. They'll clear the centermember. The notch you cut is for the downpipe clearance, and every 2.4L pan will have to be notched unless you side pipe it :)

Originally posted by micyek
They are exactly the same gears. The stock ones that I used had 2.0L marked on one side and 2.4L on the other. You need to put them 2.4L on the outside. But the timing marks have to 180* out from each other. But the markes on the 2.0L side (head side) will be in sync. I was lucky, when the gears were stamped with the marker at the factory they got hit slightly on the opposite side, making so I didn't have to transfer the marks from the 2.0L side to the 2.4L side. I hope that's clear. If you have a set in front of you it'll make more sense.

True.

Originally posted by micyek
They are exactly the same gears. The stock ones that I used had 2.0L marked on one side and 2.4L on the other. You need to put them 2.4L on the outside. But the timing marks have to be 180* out from each other. But the markes on the 2.0L side (head side) will be in sync. I was lucky, when the gears were stamped with the marker at the factory they got hit slightly on the opposite side, making so I didn't have to transfer the marks from the 2.0L side to the 2.4L side. I hope that's clear. If you have a set in front of you it'll make more sense.

Ok I'm pretty sure I understand what your saying now. My next question would be why do they have to be flipped? what does that accomplish? Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. I think I'm going to the junkyard today after class to start looking for a 2.4 :D

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
Ok I'm pretty sure I understand what your saying now. My next question would be why do they have to be flipped? what does that accomplish? Thanks for the help, I really appreciate it.

Because they're offset. The 2.0L side hugs the gear closer to the head, the 2.4L side pushes it further out.

this page can answer just about all of your questions, gsgoinfast

http://aseclub.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=67755

plus it has pics. I am not sure if you have seen it already.

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
this page can answer just about all of your questions, gsgoinfast http://aseclub.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=67755 plus it has pics. I am not sure if you have seen it already.

Wow that is a great link thanks a lot man I never saw that before.

Well I went to a local junkyard today and got a nice little find. I found a 95(I believe it was a 95, it had a DSM sticker on it and I believe those were the only 2g's to come with DSM stickers, but I didnt check the vin so I don't know) Talon ESI. I got an A-pillar plastic piece for $5(dealer wanted $72!!!) and I'm going back tomorrow to grab the intake manifold for $20, and maybe the head if it is in good condition. I can port and polish that intake manifold and hopefully just have a full long block to drop into the car when the project is nearing completion to limit the downtime. There were also some 1g's there so I'll grab a motor mount from it for the passanger mount.

I found one 2.4 block in a cirrus there but someone took the head and the cylinders were all rusted out and filled with water, so that one is worthless, I'm gonna have to keep looking

Dino, So I can use any 2.4L oil pan without having to modify it at all if I side pipe the downpipe? Hmm is there room to sidepipe it? Haven't really looked.

And finally, where is everyone getting there stock SRT4 parts for cheap? Dealer? I've been googling but havent gotten any results. Thanks alot for all your help!

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by BumpinTalon this page can answer just about all of your questions, gsgoinfast http://aseclub.net/invision/index.php?showtopic=67755 plus it has pics. I am not sure if you have seen it already.

Wow that is a great link thanks a lot man I never saw that before. Well I went to a local junkyard today and got a nice little find. I found a 95(I believe it was a 95, it had a DSM sticker on it and I believe those were the only 2g's to come with DSM stickers, but I didnt check the vin so I don't know) Talon ESI. I got an A-pillar plastic piece for $5(dealer wanted $72!!!) and I'm going back tomorrow to grab the intake manifold for $20, and maybe the head if it is in good condition. I can port and polish that intake manifold and hopefully just have a full long block to drop into the car when the project is nearing completion to limit the downtime. There were also some 1g's there so I'll grab a motor mount from it for the passanger mount. I found one 2.4 block in a cirrus there but someone took the head and the cylinders were all rusted out and filled with water, so that one is worthless, I'm gonna have to keep looking Dino, So I can use any 2.4L oil pan without having to modify it at all if I side pipe the downpipe? Hmm is there room to sidepipe it? Haven't really looked. And finally, where is everyone getting there stock SRT4 parts for cheap? Dealer? I've been googling but havent gotten any results. Thanks alot for all your help!

There is tons of room to sidepipe it. There was a guy on here with a 14B turbo kit and he had his sidepipe right out the side of his front bumper. If you remove the EGR stuff (charcoal canister) from the passenger side, you will have plenty of space down there, and then you will keep your piping hot exhaust away from the intercooler you have stashed on your driver's side and your air intake. Then it will also not have to turn 180 degrees from the turbine outlet and will flow better as a result... and it will seem quieter to you.
I drove around with an open downpipe for a long time and I really didn't mind, aside from sucking gas fumes into the car since my exited right in front of the motor.

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
There is tons of room to sidepipe it. There was a guy on here with a 14B turbo kit and he had his sidepipe right out the side of his front bumper. If you remove the EGR stuff (charcoal canister) from the passenger side, you will have plenty of space down there, and then you will keep your piping hot exhaust away from the intercooler you have stashed on your driver's side and your air intake. Then it will also not have to turn 180 degrees from the turbine outlet and will flow better as a result... and it will seem quieter to you. I drove around with an open downpipe for a long time and I really didn't mind, aside from sucking gas fumes into the car since my exited right in front of the motor.

Wow, I totally missed the whole meaning of sidepipe... I was thinking of a pipe that went around the oil pan instead of under it... Ok well is there any oil pan that wont need modification or am I basically gonna have to modify it to get the downpipe to the cat?

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
Wow, I totally missed the whole meaning of sidepipe... I was thinking of a pipe that went around the oil pan instead of under it... Ok well is there any oil pan that wont need modification or am I basically gonna have to modify it to get the downpipe to the cat?

I think this question has already been answered. It needs to be modified if you want to run the exhaust like you typically would. If there was an oil pan that you could use that you didnt have to modify dont you think dino and turby wouldve used that instead of modifying the srt and cloud car pans?

I got all my SRT parts from chryslerpartsdirect.com. Search on 2004 Dodge Neon. Anything that is listed as "Neon 2.4L" is SRT4.

how about a centermember made out of DOM so you wont have to notch the pan at all to get the exhaust to clear. this way, you could have more oil in the pan. real easy.

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95
I think this question has already been answered. It needs to be modified if you want to run the exhaust like you typically would. If there was an oil pan that you could use that you didnt have to modify dont you think dino and turby wouldve used that instead of modifying the srt and cloud car pans?

Well Dino stated that he used the SRT4 oil pump meaning he had to use the SRT4 oil pan. I didn't know if he opted to modify the oil pan because he wanted to use that oil pump, never hurts to confirm.

I have a question about this passage from Alain's write-up:

"pistons and rods ,you could use the stock ones for a NA setup or for an affordable turbo setup you could use srt-4 pistons rods rings and bearing they are really cheap price wise everything is around 1/4 to 1/2 of regular 2.0 parts
if you are using 2g style pistons either turbo or na you will need to turn the pistons 180 degres the top of the pistons is made with a large and the slope should face the exhaust side on NA pistons you could just unbolt the rod and turn the whole thing on turbo piston it's a floating pin system and the rod is also directionnal because the base of the turbo rod had a oil squirting system you can't just turn them so you will need to split the piston from the rod and turn only the piston 180 degres"

What does he mean when refering "2g" style pistons? does this include the SRT4 Pistons? And if so, is it safe to flip the piston around 180*? what adverse affects will rotating the piston 180* cause from the piston pin being originally designed offset(I'm assuming they are offset since most pistons are, but if they are not then I guess there is no problem there)?

Thanks for the help

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
What does he mean when refering "2g" style pistons? does this include the SRT4 Pistons? And if so, is it safe to flip the piston around 180*? what adverse affects will rotating the piston 180* cause from the piston pin being originally designed offset(I'm assuming they are offset since most pistons are, but if they are not then I guess there is no problem there)? Thanks for the help

2.4 pistons exist in 2 versions 1g=first generation from 1995 up to 2000 they pretty much look the same as our 2.0 pistons with a dome and 4 valve relief pockets

2g pistons are the pistons from the second generation 2.4 engine
they were introduced in the PT Cruiser engine they are directional pistons a stronger version of those pistons are in the srt-4 engine
srt-4 pistons


now look at them you could see that the slope is not even
and the longer/flatter side is the intake side of the pistons
the 2.4 use a neon style head , so as-is those pistons won't work properly with our 420a front exhaust head
you have 2 choice

1 like I said if you have stock NON TURBO 2.4 pistons you could just unbolt the rod from the crank flip the whole assemble 180 degres and bolt back the rod the piston will now face our side of the intake which is the rear of the engine
2 if you have TURBO pistons you can't just do that, because the rod is also directional !
2.4 turbo and older 2.5 turbo rods side by side


look at the base of the rod, you could see what looks like a bump with a tiny hole, this is the oil squirting hole of the rod which push oil from the crank up to the under skirt of the piston to help cooling them, there's a channel inside the rod and flipping the rod will make oil trying to works against rotation force and that's not good
the solution is easy since the TURBO piston is a floating pin design you just unlock the piston from the rod, flip the piston 180 degres and lock it back that way both the pistons AND the rods will have the right orienation for our cars

about oil pan No one fit properly for a downpipe 2g stratus pan are easy to work with but they need to be tig welded
some pans in the 90 were made with stamped steel they could be mig welded for a cheaper cost
oil pan works cost more than the custom engine mount

Alain

Originally posted by alain95i4
2.4 pistons exist in 2 versions 1g=first generation from 1995 up to 2000 they pretty much look the same as our 2.0 pistons with a dome and 4 valve relief pockets 2g pistons are the pistons from the second generation 2.4 engine they were introduced in the PT Cruiser engine they are directional pistons a stronger version of those pistons are in the srt-4 engine srt-4 pistons now look at them you could see that the slope is not even and the longer/flatter side is the intake side of the pistons the 2.4 use a neon style head , so as-is those pistons won't work properly with our 420a front exhaust head you have 2 choice 1 like I said if you have stock NON TURBO 2.4 pistons you could just unbolt the rod from the crank flip the whole assemble 180 degres and bolt back the rod the piston will now face our side of the intake which is the rear of the engine 2 if you have TURBO pistons you can't just do that, because the rod is also directional ! 2.4 turbo and older 2.5 turbo rods side by side look at the base of the rod, you could see what looks like a bump with a tiny hole, this is the oil squirting hole of the rod which push oil from the crank up to the under skirt of the piston to help cooling them, there's a channel inside the rod and flipping the rod will make oil trying to works against rotation force and that's not good the solution is easy since the TURBO piston is a floating pin design you just unlock the piston from the rod, flip the piston 180 degres and lock it back that way both the pistons AND the rods will have the right orienation for our cars about oil pan No one fit properly for a downpipe 2g stratus pan are easy to work with but they need to be tig welded some pans in the 90 were made with stamped steel they could be mig welded for a cheaper cost oil pan works cost more than the custom engine mount Alain

Thanks for the info, Great stuff, I really appreciate it. Good pictures too. I'm still wondering if there is any adverse effects caused by the 180* flip of the piston from the piston pin being offset by a few thousenths of an inch... Or is that something that wasn't considered and no negative effects have been noticed? Any piston slap when the engine is cold at all?

Looks like I'll definitely be needing to get one of those stamped steel oil pans, I know how to mig weld atleast. I've never even touched a tig before.

Oh yeah, Dino, thanks a lot for that link, it was exactly what I was looking for.

Thanks for all the help guys

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
I'm still wondering if there is any adverse effects caused by the 180* flip of the piston from the piston pin being offset by a few thousenths of an inch...

To the best of my recollection, they're not offset.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by GSGoinFast I'm still wondering if there is any adverse effects caused by the 180* flip of the piston from the piston pin being offset by a few thousenths of an inch...

To the best of my recollection, they're not offset.

Hmmm interesting... Me and my Engines teacher were discussing this swap yesterday and this topic came up. He said every piston he has seen in the last 30 years has had an offset piston pin. Be interesting to research more... But if the guys running them are not haveing any problem then I guess thats all that really matters.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by GSGoinFast I'm still wondering if there is any adverse effects caused by the 180* flip of the piston from the piston pin being offset by a few thousenths of an inch...

To the best of my recollection, they're not offset.

Hmmm interesting... Me and my Engines teacher were discussing this swap yesterday and this topic came up. He said every piston he has seen in the last 30 years has had an offset piston pin. Be interesting to research more... But if the guys running them are not haveing any problem then I guess thats all that really matters.

Then I guess he's never seen a forged JE piston for tyhe 420A, either. Those aren't offset. First engine i built, we couldn't determine which way they were supposed to face, so we measured the pin offset. No offset.

Originally posted by DarkOne
Then I guess he's never seen a forged JE piston for tyhe 420A, either. Those aren't offset. First engine i built, we couldn't determine which way they were supposed to face, so we measured the pin offset. No offset.

Interesting. I think he was talking about factory pistons, not aftermarket forged. I'll tell him that though.

Well I thought I would look it up in the factory service manual. Here's what is says:

"The pistons are made of a cast aluminum alloy. The pistons have full floating pins attached to forged steel connecting rods. The pistons pin is offset 1mm (0.0394 in.) towards the thrust side of the piston."

Thats from the 03 SRT-4 Neon service manual. Who is running these pistons backwards and have they had any problems? How many miles have they been running them?

Thanks

8000 km so far with bacward piston
engine run very nice

Alain

heres mine! this was taken last year. Ive done some changes since then. Crane cams and cam gears, Srt valve cover, Srt pass. side mount bracket. im now working on a 3 inch downpipe. Enjoy!

Originally posted by onebaddsm98
heres mine! this was taken last year. Ive done some changes since then. Crane cams and cam gears, Srt valve cover, Srt pass. side mount bracket. im now working on a 3 inch downpipe. Enjoy!

Nice, you have any pics that are a little bigger? What internals are you running, and have you had any problems with them(mostly for if you are running srt4 internals) thanks

What internals are you running?

Just for the record...

Alain, you can MIG weld aluminum. It's called a spool gun.

Originally posted by turbo8u
Just for the record... Alain, you can MIG weld aluminum. It's called a spool gun.

I know but TIG works better when you want to mix aluminium with alloy :P

onebaddsm98 is using also srt-4 pistons and rods unless he rebuilted his engine without telling me :)

Alain

yeah Alain your right! Im using the SRT internals. This swap isnt that hard. If u look at some of the Honda guys, and see the swaps that they do, or even the volkwagen guys too. I mean all it is, is half dozen wires that get rearanged and a motor mount. Ive seen honda guys put K20's in EF civics, or volkswagen guys put those new 2 liter turbo GTI motors in an old ass MK1 golf. so if u look at what we have to do its relatively easy. At least thats the way I look at it.

So is anyone having any problems with hood clearence at all? I believe I read the engine sits 1" higher, any problems with the engine or turbo hitting the hood?

Thanks for all the info guys, I'm pretty confident I can do this now.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
So is anyone having any problems with hood clearence at all? I believe I read the engine sits 1" higher, any problems with the engine or turbo hitting the hood? Thanks for all the info guys, I'm pretty confident I can do this now.

at worst you might have to cut out some of the bracing from under the hood.

Mine's fine. the TiAL hits the hood and has dimpled it, but that's solvable by using a different wastegate, or an internally gated turbo.

Well I purchased a 2.4 block a couple days ago for a great price. I got basically a short block for $85. I'm not sure if he is throwing in the oil pump or not, but I was looking on chryslerpartsdirect.com and the 98 stratus 2.4L oil pump is over $500?? That can't be right is it? Why is it so high? What other oil pumps besides the stratus and srt4 can be used? Thanks

1g (95-2000)2.4 parts are as costly , if not even more, as our 2.0 parts while 2g (2001-+) 2.4 parts are considered bargain price

check for a 2001-+ oil pump it will probably cost less and it's a better one , the 98 has the oil filter 90 degres from the engine and it's a good choice for a swap in our cars

Alain

Originally posted by alain95i4
1g (95-2000)2.4 parts are as costly , if not even more, as our 2.0 parts while 2g (2001-+) 2.4 parts are considered bargain price check for a 2001-+ oil pump it will probably cost less and it's a better one , the 98 has the oil filter 90 degres from the engine and it's a good choice for a swap in our cars Alain

Thanks a lot. Does the 2g pump require the 2g oil pan? Or can the older steel ones still be used? Thanks a lot for the help!

the only pump to be concerned with is the SRT-4 pump and the turbo Pt Cruiser pump. those 2 require their respective pan due to the oil ports in the pan itself.

Terry

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
the only pump to be concerned with is the SRT-4 pump and the turbo Pt Cruiser pump. those 2 require their respective pan due to the oil ports in the pan itself. Terry

Ok, thanks a lot Terry. I am not completely sure if this guy is including the oil pump with the engine or not(he had pictures of it on ebay, but I'm still not sure) so I started looking to see what the prices will be for a new one if he doesn't. I'll have to call him today and ask. Thanks alot guys.

I was looking on chryslerpartsdirect.com and I found the pistons through the search($61-damn good price) but the rods were not listed. Where can those be picked up?

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95
I was looking on chryslerpartsdirect.com and I found the pistons through the search($61-damn good price) but the rods were not listed. Where can those be picked up?

The pistons come with the rods! $61 for piston and forged rod! you can't beat that

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95 I was looking on chryslerpartsdirect.com and I found the pistons through the search($61-damn good price) but the rods were not listed. Where can those be picked up?

The pistons come with the rods! $61 for piston and forged rod! you can't beat that

Holy macaroni i just went back and looked. Unbelievable.

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95 I was looking on chryslerpartsdirect.com and I found the pistons through the search($61-damn good price) but the rods were not listed. Where can those be picked up?

The pistons come with the rods! $61 for piston and forged rod! you can't beat that

Holy macaroni i just went back and looked. Unbelievable.

You stole the words out of my mouth :P

They're still cast pistons, but with a steel reinforced upper ring land. A forged piston is still better.

Originally posted by DarkOne
They're still cast pistons, but with a steel reinforced upper ring land. A forged piston is still better.

true, but how strong are the forged rods they come with? I mean the way I look at it, buying those just for the rods is still cheaper then buying aftermarket forged rods. I'm sure that Eagle rods are stronger but by how much?

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by DarkOne They're still cast pistons, but with a steel reinforced upper ring land. A forged piston is still better.

true, but how strong are the forged rods they come with? I mean the way I look at it, buying those just for the rods is still cheaper then buying aftermarket forged rods. I'm sure that Eagle rods are stronger but by how much?

Now, if im not interested in a 400+ hp 2.4 turbo setup (Id go with something conservative in the 300 range), I can still use these pistons, right? I mean, they're used in a stock turbocharged vehicle so id assume that they can take a beating.

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by DarkOne They're still cast pistons, but with a steel reinforced upper ring land. A forged piston is still better.

true, but how strong are the forged rods they come with? I mean the way I look at it, buying those just for the rods is still cheaper then buying aftermarket forged rods. I'm sure that Eagle rods are stronger but by how much?

Now, if im not interested in a 400+ hp 2.4 turbo setup (Id go with something conservative in the 300 range), I can still use these pistons, right? I mean, they're used in a stock turbocharged vehicle so id assume that they can take a beating.

I plan on going with these pistons and pushing them as far as they will go. I'll let you know what they take in a couple years lol

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
I plan on going with these pistons and pushing them as far as they will go. I'll let you know what they take in a couple years lol

I know a guy who is running 22psi on a stock srt4 with 3" turboback with no real issues. You should one-up him and run 24. I need to start looking for a 2.4 shortblock...

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95

Originally posted by GSGoinFast I plan on going with these pistons and pushing them as far as they will go. I'll let you know what they take in a couple years lol

I know a guy who is running 22psi on a stock srt4 with 3" turboback with no real issues. You should one-up him and run 24. I need to start looking for a 2.4 shortblock...

OH consider it done! Nah I won't be able to push the limits for atleast another year when I have enough money for a MSnS and bigger injectors. But first I have to get the 2.4 up and running, just got the engine delivered today! :D

i plan on using the srt rod piston combo on my next 2.4, i'd have the domes of the pistons ceramic coated, should be able to get that done at a reasonable cost.

Originally posted by 2point4
i plan on using the srt rod piston combo on my next 2.4, i'd have the domes of the pistons ceramic coated, should be able to get that done at a reasonable cost.

Keep us updated on that, will ya? Be sure to add anything to this thread about fabbing parts etc.

I have a stock PT Cruiser 2.4 block for sale if anyone's interested. pick up only NY. check the sales section.

General question:


On the chrysler parts direct site, can the pistons be ordered in oversize?

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95
General question: On the chrysler parts direct site, can the pistons be ordered in oversize?

AFAIK the OEM 2.4 pistons, either NA or turbo, are only available in standard bore

Alain

Keep us updated on that, will ya? Be sure to add anything to this thread about fabbing parts etc.


all of my info/pics ( & drama!! ) from the first block are in the advanced section thread. don't run stock injectors with the 2.4 block!! i was convinced by another member, who shall remain nameless at this time, that the stock injectors will supply enough fuel to run the swap n/a. HELL MUTHAFUCKIN NO!! i thought at first that the oil suction tube was mashed against the bottom of the oil pan but that was not the case. i ran the bitch lean and the piston separated at the wrist pin. no fun. lesson learned. round two!! pm me with any questions. laaaate

Originally posted by 2point4
Keep us updated on that, will ya? Be sure to add anything to this thread about fabbing parts etc. all of my info/pics ( & drama!! ) from the first block are in the advanced section thread. don't run stock injectors with the 2.4 block!! i was convinced by another member, who shall remain nameless at this time, that the stock injectors will supply enough fuel to run the swap n/a. HELL MUTHAFUCKIN NO!! i thought at first that the oil suction tube was mashed against the bottom of the oil pan but that was not the case. i ran the bitch lean and the piston separated at the wrist pin. no fun. lesson learned. round two!! pm me with any questions. laaaate

Ouch. The 26# inj. should be used for n/a, correct? Also, I read a few threads about modifying the injector harness (4 to 1, 1 to 2, etc.) but the swap has worked without having to do this step (cough, Dino, cough). Anybody want to elaborate? Just to let everybody know, the 2.4 swap might actually turn into this summer's project.

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95

Originally posted by 2point4 Keep us updated on that, will ya? Be sure to add anything to this thread about fabbing parts etc. all of my info/pics ( & drama!! ) from the first block are in the advanced section thread. don't run stock injectors with the 2.4 block!! i was convinced by another member, who shall remain nameless at this time, that the stock injectors will supply enough fuel to run the swap n/a. HELL MUTHAFUCKIN NO!! i thought at first that the oil suction tube was mashed against the bottom of the oil pan but that was not the case. i ran the bitch lean and the piston separated at the wrist pin. no fun. lesson learned. round two!! pm me with any questions. laaaate

Ouch. The 26# inj. should be used for n/a, correct? Also, I read a few threads about modifying the injector harness (4 to 1, 1 to 2, etc.) but the swap has worked without having to do this step (cough, Dino, cough). Anybody want to elaborate? Just to let everybody know, the 2.4 swap might actually turn into this summer's project.

If you use a megasquirt, you don't need to re-wire anything.

Well, I got my 2.4L block and brought it down to school with me. 2 of the crank bearings were pretty chewed up, but the crankshaft seems in good shape. I'm gonna have my Engines teacher inspect it but he wasn't at class today. Should be a fun little puzzle to put together, none of the bolts were labeled or remotely in the right spots, just one big pile. Oh well, if you want I'll post pics.

hmmm. megasquirt does sound like a good idea and the price cant be beat. Maybe I will look into that. If all goes well, I'll start shopping for a block first and worry about an engine management system later on down the road, which is why I needed some info on the injector harness rewire. Also, if you want to post pics you can. One thing that you could do that would be pretty neat is when you pull your 2.0, put the two shortblocks side by side and snap some comparison shots.

I'm currently running accel #24 injectors with the stock fuel pressure I saw a 200-250 EGT drop whenj I switched from stock 2.0 injectors to those ones

Alain

Originally posted by alain95i4
I'm currently running accel #24 injectors with the stock fuel pressure I saw a 200-250 EGT drop whenj I switched from stock 2.0 injectors to those ones Alain

Wow. That's the exact answer I was looking for. Thanks again Alain. Would you like to elaborate on the subject of injector harness modifications for those of us who will be temporarily using the stock computer?

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95

Originally posted by alain95i4 I'm currently running accel #24 injectors with the stock fuel pressure I saw a 200-250 EGT drop whenj I switched from stock 2.0 injectors to those ones Alain

Wow. That's the exact answer I was looking for. Thanks again Alain. Would you like to elaborate on the subject of injector harness modifications for those of us who will be temporarily using the stock computer?

you must re-wire the injectors so that 1 goes to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4 and 4 to 1. This is because the crank sensor on the 2.4 is on a different place then the 2.0, and by rewireing the injectors and plug wires and rotating the cam magnet, the ecu can read the crank sensor and still send signals out like its a 2.0 but it will do everything correctly for the 2.4

rewiring is easy to do on our cars

at the fuel rail you have a big connector which connect the 4 injectors to the main harness

you have 5 wires 1 is the common incomming 12v the 4 others are the injectors driver
near the big plug cut the 4 wires and soldered them back with heat shrink
carefull you have to see it from the computer point of view because you could do a mistake and do 1 on 4 , 4 on 3 etc

so wire from computer channel 1 soldered to wire going to injector 2
wire from computer channel 2 soldered to wire going to injector 3
wire from computer channel 3 soldered to wire going to injector 4
wire from computer channel 4 soldered to wire going to injector 1

recap of why we have to do this
2.0 either 420a or neon are timmed on cylinder 1
2.4 have balancing shaft because of that they put the crank sensor on cylinder 2 the cam sensor have the magnet at a different angle and the 2.4 computer knows all that but US we need to make our computer think that cylinder 2 is cylinder 1 for fire and fuel
1/2 turn of crank = 1/4 turn of cam
so if the crank is 180 off we turn the cam sensor magnet 90 degres off clockwise and they are now in sync
the computer is happy and want to send fuel and fire on cylinder 1 and 4 but we need to send that to cylinder 2 and 3
that the job of the injector and coil pack rewiring

Alain

Thank you for that info. That was a little easier to understand than some of the threads posted in the past. Alain, how long did it take you to do your swap? More specifically, from start to finish.

Where does the oil dipstick come out? In the pics in the advanced section it comes right up through the middle of the header. That just doesnt seem right to me.

it's a 2.4 dip stick and I played with the orientation of the tube

my cas was down for 7 weeks
I worked 1 week full time and 5 weekend , I took 1 weekend off of the project

I was not only swapping the engine but I was also swapping the transmission from a stock atx 1995 to a atx pt cruiser turbo 2003
I needed to investigate how to rewire the transmission to make it work I was also rebuilding the front suspension and I had a torn boot on one axel

just swapping the engine could be done in 3 days I think
1 day taking the 420a out
1 day prepping the engine bay and to finish the 2.4 with parts from the pulled 420a
1 day to put the 2.4 in the hole

Alain

I used a 2.0L dipstick tube and modified the 2.4L stick. Mine comes out slightly lower than the factory location due to the added block height.

Fantastic. This is good info guys and if I need to modify a 2.0L dipstick tube I have one sitting at home. It was a good idea to centralize the 2.4 swap info. Ill try to think of more questions to ask later. ;)

Well a little update, I got good news. I took my crank to a machine shop, and they said it only needs a polish, not a regrind, and can still use standard bearings. saves me a few bucks. Also, I found a complete(and by complete I mean still has the front suspension and the front and rear motor mounts and cross beams, along with transmission) 2.4 engine sitting in the back of one of our shops. So I can take that apart and it will definitly help me sort out my bolts and know exactly what part goes where(since my engine came in piles of parts).

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
Well a little update, I got good news. I took my crank to a machine shop, and they said it only needs a polish, not a regrind, and can still use standard bearings. saves me a few bucks. Also, I found a complete(and by complete I mean still has the front suspension and the front and rear motor mounts and cross beams, along with transmission) 2.4 engine sitting in the back of one of our shops. So I can take that apart and it will definitly help me sort out my bolts and know exactly what part goes where(since my engine came in piles of parts).

That is good news. Glad to hear it! ;)

Well, I admit, I've been watching this thread pretty closely, and I'm considering doing the swap as well.

As always, a few questions:

1.Nobody has mentioned anything about trannies. I'm assuming that an NV-T350 will bolt right up?
2. Can I use an SRT-4 clutch?
3. I have MS and am planning on upgrading to MSnS. Does it mess with MS at all having the pick up on Cylinder #2? Like if I get my motor running with MSnS on my 2.0, will it not work at all with the 2.4? I understand that I will have to tune it again, but will the whole thing have to be redone? Also, do I still wire the batches as 1+4 and 2+3?
4. What did you find for a cheaper alternative for the oil pump, instead of the 500 dollar pump? What pan would be associated with that pump?
5. (wussy question) Has anyone maintained A/C with this swap?


That's all I can think of for now, thanks guys,
Brian

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
Well, I admit, I've been watching this thread pretty closely, and I'm considering doing the swap as well. As always, a few questions: 1.Nobody has mentioned anything about trannies. I'm assuming that an NV-T350 will bolt right up? 2. Can I use an SRT-4 clutch? 3. I have MS and am planning on upgrading to MSnS. Does it mess with MS at all having the pick up on Cylinder #2? Like if I get my motor running with MSnS on my 2.0, will it not work at all with the 2.4? I understand that I will have to tune it again, but will the whole thing have to be redone? Also, do I still wire the batches as 1+4 and 2+3? 4. What did you find for a cheaper alternative for the oil pump, instead of the 500 dollar pump? What pan would be associated with that pump? 5. (wussy question) Has anyone maintained A/C with this swap? That's all I can think of for now, thanks guys, Brian

I can only answer #4... The guy gave me the oil pump with the engine, so I didn't have to get a new one. But, if you want one cheaper, I believe the 2000+ oil pumps are only like $120. I am also interested in the other questoins(except #1, it bolts up)

i'm working on putting back my AC
I already have the srt-4 ac bracket and 1 srt-4 ac compressor
the compressor is bolton on the bracket or course ... but ... read on

srt-4 compressor are made by Denso, same shit as our cars but they don't the same shape and bolt pattern
our cars are using a belt with 4 ribs
srt-4 are using a belt with 3 ribs
I took off the clutch/pulley assy from both compressor and did an hybrid srt-4 compressor with 420a pulley

oups ...
found out too late the 420a pulley has an offset which the srt-4 compressor doesn't have the pulley is now at the wrong place for an alignment with the crank and power steering pulleys

and second oups the 420a pulley is larger in diameter and now it's almost touching the srt-4 belt tensionner there's not enought space left for a belt

so comming up somewhere this spring/early summer I'll make an adaptor plate which will go between the bracket and the compressor with that plate I will have the chance to silde the compressor up and down and right to left for the perfect fitting

as for using MS you will not have to play with the cam sensor magnet since MS is not using it at all, you don't have to swap your injectors , you still need to batch fuel and fire on 1-4, 2-3 pairing, and you may have to swap coil pack wire depending of your spark setup , either at the coil pack or right at the MS

nvt-350 will bolt right on and the a604 too of course

as for using the srt-4 clutch I don't know
I will bolt on the engine, but it was made for a nvt-850, a newer tranny , I have never heard so far of someone using one on a 420a/nvt-350 combo so ????

Alain

I got a quick question that I really need to know by today so any help would be appreciated. What is the difference between the Cirrus rod bearings and the SRT-4 rod bearings? Do I need to use the SRT-4 bearings with the srt-4 rods? Because I noticed that the SRT-4 bearings are $2 more expensive. Are they better? The guy at the machine shop is ordering the main bearings and was gonna order the rod bearings but I told him to hold off until I found out if I needed the SRT4 ones. Thanks for the help

Great guys, thanks for the info. I have to know the wiring stuff, cuz here in NY, you can't have a CEL if you wanna pass inspection. As long as I can fool the computer enough, I'll be fine.

My friend told me about a guy who takes an SRT-4 clutch and modifies it so it will work with an NV-T350. I can talk to him and report back. He does some type of machining so it will work.


Brian


PS. I'm sorry for my dumbness. I tried reading the timing setup a bunch of times, but I'm still a bit confused. Help me if you could please.

Basically, you take a set of cam gears which have two sides, 2.0 and 2.4. You transfer the timing marks from the 2.0 side to the 2.4 side. You then install with the 2.4 side facing out and use those NEW timing marks to time the motor? Am I correct?

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
Basically, you take a set of cam gears which have two sides, 2.0 and 2.4. You transfer the timing marks from the 2.0 side to the 2.4 side. You then install with the 2.4 side facing out and use those NEW timing marks to time the motor? Am I correct?

Correct. You are essentially timing the 2.0 head like you would normally but it's sitting on a 2.4 block and the cam gears are turned around. Does that make sense? Either way, the 2.0 marks have to be lined up.

Gotcha. That makes sense. Thanks for the help :)


Brian

PS. Are you guys at all concerned about the input shaft of the tranny? Looking over at neons.org, a guy was talking about a friend of his who did the swap and twisted 3 input shafts off at the same spot. I know a friend who talked about this happening with turbododges as well. Anybody have information regarding this?

with srt-4 rods you NEED to use the srt-4 rod bearings
they have a hole made for the oil squirting feature of the rod which a normal bearing doesn't have

Alain

Originally posted by alain95i4
with srt-4 rods you NEED to use the srt-4 rod bearings they have a hole made for the oil squirting feature of the rod which a normal bearing doesn't have Alain

ok thats what I figured. Thanks Alain, your a huge help

Just as a followup. You CAN use an SRT4 clutch, but it must be milled/lathed down in order to fit in the T350 tranny. A local guy here in Rochester did a 2.4T swap with MSnS in his Neon and that's what he did. There's a guy on neons.org named JeffB that'll lathe it down for 100 bucks including shipping. You also need a SRT4 throwout bearing as well which is about 40 bucks. The clutch itself is about 250 bucks, so all in all, it's a good deal. Just in case people are wondering.

He also said not to worry about the T350 holding the torque. There are several guys over on .org that are running quite a bit of power through these trannies including a guy named dmarino who's putting 300+ hp and 300+ tq through it with no problems. There's this post on .org that got me concerned. What do you guys think?

http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=252583

I do admit though, I can't find many more topics of twisting the shaft off, although like I said in my post a few up, I know turbododge guys who are making LOTS of torque have twisted the shaft off....but in fairness, I don't know what tranny that was. I'll have to talk to my buddy about that.

That's it for now,
Brian

Well, I got bad news. I just found out that the previous owner of the block went to town with the ridge reamer, and fucked it up pretty good. Were gonna hone it out tomarrow, but most likely gonna have to get it bored, which means the SRT-4 pistons I ordered this morning will not fit, and they don't make oversized pistons which means I have to get aftermarket forged, which will set me back a good $500. Wonderful. I'm gonna stop by the machine shop today to make sure I can't get oversized oem pistons, and if I cant, I guess I'm gonna just use the forged srt-4 rods, sell the pistons, and get some forged pistons whenever I get the money.

EDIT: Alain, is that picture of the piston taken at TDC? Does the NA 2.4 piston come up higher then the SRT-4 piston?

that pic was from Bob Stockum dead website
http://www.bstockum.com/turboblock.html

yes it's at tdc

and since your block is bad why don't you just keep it for parts and get a better one it's still gonna be cheaper than buying forged pistons which may or may not fit on the srt-4 rod ;)

Alain

Originally posted by alain95i4
that pic was from Bob Stockum dead website http://www.bstockum.com/turboblock.html yes it's at tdc and since your block is bad why don't you just keep it for parts and get a better one it's still gonna be cheaper than buying forged pistons which may or may not fit on the srt-4 rod ;) Alain

Well if that is as high as the piston gets, I might be ok. I dunno I'm gonna have to wait until I get the piston and rod and can hone it out to see how it looks. I dunno what I will do if it doesn't work out, I'll have to weigh my options and keep checking ebay for engines. Thanks for the help... I'll have to drink on this and think about it on the morning :cheers

Hey guys, something else I came across looking through the old posts. Some people were saying that a windage tray is necessary because the balance shafts that once previously acted as a windage were removed. Is this true? If so, it should be included in this thread, and also how does one go about making one of these?


Brian

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
Hey guys, something else I came across looking through the old posts. Some people were saying that a windage tray is necessary because the balance shafts that once previously acted as a windage were removed. Is this true? If so, it should be included in this thread, and also how does one go about making one of these? Brian

This doesnt make any sense. IMO a balance shaft and a windage tray are two different things. Check crankscrapers.com for more info. I searched over there and I saw something about a washer that covers up the oil passage to the balance shaft...like I said, I wouldnt say the two are related.

the balance shaft are in a big housing and they sit inside the pan
the housing also act a little like a oil baffle
it's true mostly for neon swap to put something there because the result is like an 7 quart pan , most of the neon guys just cut the chain and leave the housing in there

but us we need to remove the housing completely so we could cut the pan and make it smaller to have space for the downpipe the result is a 4-6 quarts pan depending how much you remove

I made a baffle for the deep section of my pan it's crude but it works
it's holding in place bolted to 2 of the 4 bolt holes of the balancing shaft housing







Alain

haha nice. You've got quite a few tricks up your sleeve.

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95
haha nice. You've got quite a few tricks up your sleeve.

I believe he is a 420a God

:bowdown alain

Thank you Alain, that's what I was referring too. How much space would you estimate is between your baffle and the crank throws?

Also, just as a clarification: AFTER you have turned the pistons around 180, what orientation do they have when they're installed in the piston? To make it easier, if you look at the picture waaaay up there, there's a dot on the right side of the piston. Is that side of the piston facing the intake or exhaust side?


Thanks for all your help guys, this is definately something I'm going to do.


Brian

on the piston the dot side with the flat spot is the intake side
on that pic the piston is on the right orientation for a REAR exhaust head, actually that pic was taken with a stock 2.04 turbo block

in our cars the flat spot has to face the rear side of the engine

I don't remember the exact distance between my baffle and the crank but it was at least 2 inch
the baffle was welded on the 2 metal poles to stay at the same height as the reworked side of my custom oil pan I have around 1/2 inch of clearance between the baffle sides and the oil pan walls

the holes on the baffle were made tappered to make the oil flow easier from crank to bottom of the pan

Alain

Yet again, thanks so much. Points to you.


I was thinking about the cam magnet having to be reoriented. Now, since I'm going to be running MSnS, I won't need to rotate the magnet to get the car to RUN, but won't it throw a CEL since the cam and crank will be out of sync? I have to avoid CEL's, so I was thinking about moving it to keep the computer happy.

Good thoughts? Or, am I missing something?

Brian

the magnet trick scare peoples but it's so easy
I did it in 2 minutes with a protractor

I just draw a small straight line from center of the magnet up the head with a permanent marker
unscrew the magnet and cut the 2 plastics tabs
put back the magnet, use the protractor to calculate my 90 degres angle , screw the magnet tightly in the new position with some loctite on the screw

and the engine started on the first try I was so surprised that I got scared and shut it down in fear of breaking it :)

Alain

Well this just sucks. I get an email from chryslerpartsdirect.com today saying all 4 items I ordered are unavailable. So I go to the order status page and it says my order is cancelled, and that they need a VIN number to ensure the parts are right for my vehicle... I DON'T HAVE A VIN NUMBER, I WOULD HAVE GIVEN YOU IT IF I DID! Ugh. I mean, whats the point of even having the "I don't have a VIN number and am aware my order may be wrong without it" option if they just cancel your order for not haveing it? I gotta call them today and try to straighten this out. Now I dunno if these parts will get in before the school year is over, then I won't get to work in our nice shop with my teacher helping me out. God damn

Go raise some hell, Chris ;)

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95
Go raise some hell, Chris ;)

HAHA well I just replied to the email he sent me instead of calling, and I got a response right away, I told him what I was doing and he said to just re-submit the order. Oh well, its all taken care of now, I just hope that the parts get here within 2 weeks, otherwise I'm screwed(had them sent to school, and school is done in 2 weeks)

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95 haha nice. You've got quite a few tricks up your sleeve.

I believe he is a 420a God :bowdown alain

lmfao...:order

Well, I think my engine is tired of taking the boost and wants out. I got on her today since it was pretty cold and was pulling harder, and the clutch didn't feel quite so good afterwards. Then, when I was leaving class, I popped the hood to admire my exhaust leak, and noticed a HARSH vibration through the cylinder 1 plug wire, almost felt like the piston was hitting the plug. I took the plug out, it was fine, then I did a compression test which yielded 190(30 less then last test only a couple months ago) and put it back in and the vibration was gone LOL. Well, heres some pics of the engine.


BUT, When we first found the 2.4L sitting in the storage room, we found this sitting right next to it... May swap this in :P

Here is my oil pan. My question is(for alain mostly lol or anyone else who can answer) Will I have enough room on the oil pan if I continue to cut along where the original shallow part is? The red line in the second pic is where I'm talking about cuttng, and the vertical part would be the same distance away from the passanger side end as my current oil pan is. Would that give me enough room? I want to try and cut it before I go back home for the summer so I wont be able to line it up to cut it. Thanks.

what you want to do is pretty much the same thing me and my friend schoeby did on our pans

here's my stock pan


I did the cut at the lowest point

after the cut with the new bottom welded in place


and you could the section that was removed sitting on the new bottom


that pan still hold plenty of oil close to 5 quarts

Alain

Those are great pics Alain, once again, THANKS ALOT!!

Great bunch of information here I just read it all. What do you do for the passenger side motor mount exactly? You said something about a 1g.

NOOOO NOT Advanced Tuning!!!! Not this thread has a better chance of being seen on MSNBC! :P

The 1g thing he is talking about is he said to buy a 1g driver(i believe) side motormout, and cut the donut off. Then, use that donut, and weld a piece of square tubing on that, then another plate on that that will bolt up to the srt4 mount. I'm gonna go to the junkyard today to see how much for a 1g mount.

my pan holds about 8 quarts, drop the sump down

I get about 6qt with my modified SRT pan.

i've been considering producing the "swap kit" for some time now. i've recently gained access to a tig and a place to work. this has been my hold up, and turby FULLY understands what that means, but that is over now. i used the 98 stratus oil pan with a similar setup to alians and the stock 2gnt motor mount with some modification. pics are on the boards if you search around. hit me up if you're interested.

Guys, quick question.

I'm trying to make sure I can set my engine up without having a CEL after the 2.4 swap. (At least just to pass inspection)

I'm dealing with this right now with the MS, and to fix it I'll have to switch back to the stock injectors so I can pass inspection.

With the 2.4, apparently stock injectors don't deliver enough fuel.

Now, my question is, with the 24# (or 26#, i just forgot) Accel injectors that work with the NA setup, does that throw any CEL's?

Also, if I just drive the car around very lightly for a few days prior to getting it inspected with STOCK injectors, do I run the risk of hurting it? Or, do the stock injectors not deliver enough fuel only when you're really getting on it? The guy I take it to doesn't drive the car around, just pulls it in, checks all the lights and hooks the scanner up. (We don't have sniffers here)

In other words, if I putter around town for a couple days with stock injectors, do you think I'd hurt anything? I'd prefer not to pay for the Accel injectors for a few days once a year if I don't have to.


Thanks for the opinions,
Brian

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
Guys, quick question. I'm trying to make sure I can set my engine up without having a CEL after the 2.4 swap. (At least just to pass inspection) I'm dealing with this right now with the MS, and to fix it I'll have to switch back to the stock injectors so I can pass inspection. With the 2.4, apparently stock injectors don't deliver enough fuel. Now, my question is, with the 24# (or 26#, i just forgot) Accel injectors that work with the NA setup, does that throw any CEL's? Also, if I just drive the car around very lightly for a few days prior to getting it inspected with STOCK injectors, do I run the risk of hurting it? Or, do the stock injectors not deliver enough fuel only when you're really getting on it? The guy I take it to doesn't drive the car around, just pulls it in, checks all the lights and hooks the scanner up. (We don't have sniffers here) In other words, if I putter around town for a couple days with stock injectors, do you think I'd hurt anything? I'd prefer not to pay for the Accel injectors for a few days once a year if I don't have to. Thanks for the opinions, Brian

I don't see how 24 lbs injectors would throw a CEL, the computer wont know the difference, and with more displacement you need more fuel. I would'nt try running stockers, a guy on this forum(can't remember who) ran stockers when he first got it running, and his engine went boom on the first drive.

Yeah, I can't see how they would, of couse assuming they're the same impedance.

Another thing, after reading a bit , another way I was thinking I could do it would be to up the fuel pressure on the stock injectors. I could watch the EGT gauge to make sure it's safe and drive lazily around for a while. Remember, it's a very temporary setup just to pass inspection, then the big injectors go back in.

As for the guy (2point4 i thought it was), I thought he was driving around for a while, then he got on it and it blew up. Now, i'm gonna go search for it.....


Brian

read back all my posts in this thread and you find what happened when I switched my 2.4 from stock 2.0 injectors to #24 accel

Alain

yep, that was me. i ran the 2.4 with stock injectors for about an hour and a half with no issues. i was having so much fun with first and second gear that i completely disregarded the fact that i could run it lean. overzealous... no doubt. if you had to run it on 2.0 injectors, i'd say you could "get by" for a couple days if you be nice to it. i'd stay off the freeways too.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Did you have an EGT gauge when you did yours, or an A/F?


You're right...it'd be to just "get by" and I'd only drive it till the readiness monitors allowed me to get inspected.


Brian

PS: Did you ever figure out why you were getting that cam/crank CEL?

nope, i had the crower 2's on and they're predrilled at the other angles too. maybe mine were slightly miss-drilled or i had it a little off on the rotation. idk

Ok, question for you guys again. What are you guys revving to while racing/pushing it? Are you able to get it up to 7k rpm's like stock or are you cutting it short? I know auto guys can only go to 6500 but what about the manual guys(turbo8u?) Thanks for the help.

Are any other guys having problems with CEL's because of the cam/crank relationship?


Brian

Just a little FYI: I remember reading about the SRT-4 oem clutch conversion to make it fit in the nvt-350 and I just found out that the guy that machines them is no longer doing it. Meh.

Also, for those that use the srt tensioner and big cams:
Here is the original bolt for the tensioner

The upgraded bolt

The upgraded bolt in the tensioner:


All this I found over on neons.org. It's a great site ;)

with the long rods i dont worry about redline at all

Originally posted by turbo8u
with the long rods i dont worry about redline at all

I though you were running the SRT-4 internals? You switch out for a forged long rod kit?

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by turbo8u with the long rods i dont worry about redline at all

I though you were running the SRT-4 internals? You switch out for a forged long rod kit?

nah man never had the srt-4 internals, well i did but i sold them to Chris like 2 years ago now. i was the first one to get the 6.16 rods.

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by turbo8u with the long rods i dont worry about redline at all

I though you were running the SRT-4 internals? You switch out for a forged long rod kit?

nah man never had the srt-4 internals, well i did but i sold them to Chris like 2 years ago now. i was the first one to get the 6.16 rods.

Hmph... Where did you get your internals? Special order or do they make a long rod kit for the 2.4 now?

Well anyways, can anyone with SRT-4 internals tell me if they have had any problem revving high or if they can get to 7k rpm's without a problem? Thanks

darrel cox

edit: i wouldnt wrap the 2.4 to 7k rpm's....a lot of guys on srt forums do it but piston speed at that rpm is insane. besides, make all your power earlier, change the gearing and shift early. thats what i would do with a 2.4 anyway.

Originally posted by turbo8u
darrel cox edit: i wouldnt wrap the 2.4 to 7k rpm's....a lot of guys on srt forums do it but piston speed at that rpm is insane. besides, make all your power earlier, change the gearing and shift early. thats what i would do with a 2.4 anyway.

Who's darrel cox? how much did this cost you?

darrel cox builds engines for scott mohler of team mopar. that setup cost him an arm, half a leg, a few fingers, and all of his lower teeth. now he's on a steady diet of hot dogs and apple-nut-sauce.

Originally posted by 2point4
darrel cox builds engines for scott mohler of team mopar. that setup cost him an arm, half a leg, a few fingers, and all of his lower teeth. now he's on a steady diet of hot dogs and apple-nut-sauce.

Hey 2point4, are you running SRT4 pistons? How high are you revving? Can you get all the way to 7k without a problem?

I revlimit mine at 7500. I am running billet Eagle rods and CP pistons, though.

i'm waiting on a block for the srt's to go into, they're still in the box that turby sent them in. i'm gonna coat the decks with ceramic or something better though, still researching on that. getting through a couple other issues before i start this build.

deener... have you got that beast on the dyno yet??

Originally posted by DarkOne
I revlimit mine at 7500. I am running billet Eagle rods and CP pistons, though.

Are your rods the same length as the srt4 rods? Thanks Dino

A little update:
My pistons and rods came in yesterday, and today I went to class early to start out on it. Within 5 minutes of being there I had smashed my middle finger and turned half the nail blue :censored Anyways, I threw the crank on there, put a piston/rod in there and cranked her over, and the cylinder flaw is well above the piston/ring at TDC!!! That's a huge relief. We had permatex come in and speak today which meant not much shop time, So all i got done was i got the Pistons flipped around and ringed them all. I couldn't believe how jagged the cracked caps are on those rods. But yeah, pretty good day today(besides my finger). Oh yeah, then taco bell gave me the wrong order, and I didn't notice until after I started eating but they gave me way more food then I payed for lol.

I have an atx tranny and I revved up to 6200-6300 with my very small snow tires on after that it slowed adapted to a lower 5700-5800 rpm
now with the regular 205-55/r16 I need to reset the computer and see

I could that without the turbo and with stock cams , even with my 55mm tb , the head doesn't breath too well above 6000 rpm however

Alain

Alain, were you having problems with CEL's for the cam/crank relationship?


Brian

Originally posted by ForceFed420a
Alain, were you having problems with CEL's for the cam/crank relationship? Brian

never had one that i can point to that situation
however once in a while my car will have severe missfiring , there's a bug in my wiring harness for years dating way before my engine swap
and the result is a code 11 and 42 since I have the 2.4 while when I had the 2.0 the result was only code 42

usually i just pull hard on the harness near the computer and the car will be happy for a few weeks/months , go figure ...

Alain

Hehe, nice. Love the fix. :)

Good to know. I'm trying to make sure that assuming the swap goes correctly and things are wired right, that I won't have a CEL.

Thanks for the info. :thumbsup


Brian

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by DarkOne I revlimit mine at 7500. I am running billet Eagle rods and CP pistons, though.

Are your rods the same length as the srt4 rods? Thanks Dino

i would assume so. they're a standard 2.4L Eagle rod.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by GSGoinFast

Originally posted by DarkOne I revlimit mine at 7500. I am running billet Eagle rods and CP pistons, though.

Are your rods the same length as the srt4 rods? Thanks Dino

i would assume so. they're a standard 2.4L Eagle rod.

Ok, thanks a lot Dino.

Originally posted by 2point4
darrel cox builds engines for scott mohler of team mopar. that setup cost him an arm, half a leg, a few fingers, and all of his lower teeth. now he's on a steady diet of hot dogs and apple-nut-sauce.

LMFAO :order

Alain, you said that putting 24 lbs injectors helped a bit. I did the math, and unless I'm wrong(very possible), 24 lbs injectors only supply 7% more fuel when we just added 20% more displacement. According to my numbers, 27 lbs injectors would give you 20% more fuel over our 235cc stock injectors, but since I don't think or haven't seen 27 lbs injectors for sale, it seems 26 lbs injectors would be most adequite for the 2.4 on our motors, adding 16% more fuel over stock. Is there a reason why you went with the 24's over the 26's? Thanks for the help.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
Is there a reason why you went with the 24's over the 26's? Thanks for the help.

yes a friend of mine was selling them for cheap and they had only 1800 km
BTW I never accepted the 235 cc value for the injectors
I always said and think that we have #19 injectors just like the neon dohc
19 to 24 = 20% more

Alain

Originally posted by alain95i4

Originally posted by GSGoinFast Is there a reason why you went with the 24's over the 26's? Thanks for the help.

yes a friend of mine was selling them for cheap and they had only 1800 km BTW I never accepted the 235 cc value for the injectors I always said and think that we have #19 injectors just like the neon dohc 19 to 24 = 20% more Alain

Hmmm interesting. So we don't know for sure what size injectors we have? Does anyone know what size the stock 2.4 injector size is?

Corbin had the stocker cleaned and flow benched. The results were that the stock injectors flowed 190cc/min and not 235cc/min

Terry

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Corbin had the stocker cleaned and flow benched. The results were that the stock injectors flowed 190cc/min and not 235cc/min Terry

I'd like to see that post.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon Corbin had the stocker cleaned and flow benched. The results were that the stock injectors flowed 190cc/min and not 235cc/min Terry

I'd like to see that post.

And the plot thickens....

Well I guess if I don't get the MSnS this summer I may try the 26 lbs injectors, if it's too rich I can always pull a little out with the S-AFC. Thanks guys.

I have a question about the swap. I have srt4 piston and rods. they were not assemble when i got them. I know about the piston being flip 180.My question is what direction does the rod face. Since it has the oil hole at the base. For the swap that is going inside the eclipse, does the oil hole at the base face the exhaust side or the intake side of the motor when it is in an eclipse.

So why not just swap the whole engine instead of just the block? Will it not fit?

All the original applications for the 2.4L were rear-exhaust, opposite of the 2GNT / Avenger / Sebring.

The 2.4L cams are also very mild, even when compared to a stock 2.0L cam.

Since we are talking about the 2.4, i would like to know if the srt 4 2.4 engine will bolt up to an eclipse 420a. im already running mega squirt and i know the head will need to be changed. but my main reason for asking is because i keep hearing that the srt 4 block is stronger than the n/a 2.4. is this true.

I do not think you are going to ever find any evidence to support one or the other on that. And yes it will physically bolt to the NV-T350. The same motor mount and oil pan considerations are present if you want to attach it properly.

Additionally bolting the 2GNT head to the SRT or later 2.4 N/A blocks presents the issue of an oil drain hole revision.

Read this to answer further question.

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/3542/rebuilding_the_chrysler_24l.aspx

Originally posted by CODE4
I do not think you are going to ever find any evidence to support one or the other on that. And yes it will physically bolt to the NV-T350. The same motor mount and oil pan considerations are present if you want to attach it properly. Additionally bolting the 2GNT head to the SRT or later 2.4 N/A blocks presents the issue of an oil drain hole revision. Read this to answer further question. http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/3542/rebuilding_the_chrysler_24l.aspx

Well i am still not 100% sure on how to do it my self but from what i have been reading its just one of the oil drain hole that must be blocked off. also i have been emailing dcr racing. they have put an eclipse 420a head on an srt 4 block with their head gasket that was made to do this. if i find any more information on this subject i shall post it.

Also what do you think about the crank in the n/a 2.4. i have read the links that were posted and it stated that some of the early turbo models might have been made using the n/a crank. the main reason i am asking all these question is because i have the block put together but if things are weak i would liketo know now to change them out.

Stop second guessing it. Plenty of guys are making power on N/A 2.4 blocks. I am pushing 20psi on a GT3076R on my 99 Stratus block.

And the drain hole is NOT blocked off, the shape must be altered/epoxied/welded/machined to properly match to the 2GNT head.

The N/A crank & block must be used together, likewise with the SRT crank/block. You cannot mix & match the parts.

Originally posted by CODE4
Stop second guessing it. Plenty of guys are making power on N/A 2.4 blocks. I am pushing 20psi on a GT3076R on my 99 Stratus block. And the drain hole is NOT blocked off, the shape must be altered/epoxied/welded/machined to properly match to the 2GNT head. The N/A crank & block must be used together, likewise with the SRT crank/block. You cannot mix & match the parts.

Ok then i guess i shall keep going with the plan i already have, thanks guys for clearing up a few information for me. Just one more question. I have the 2.4 block already set up with srt 4 rods and piston with the ls1 arp bolts. Just want to know whats the best piston choice. I am looking for over 650 to the wheels. So i know the crower rods are rated up to 1000 hp, but beside je and wiseco piston which are rated up to 500, what other choices are their. Sorry for all the #### question.

Pick whatever piston you want. Check the manufacturer's specs, and read some reviews. It is more of a personal choice.

Originally posted by CODE4
Pick whatever piston you want. Check the manufacturer's specs, and read some reviews. It is more of a personal choice.

The problem is many company do not have hp rating on pistons. i have looked at the kits from dcr racing but their kit was 2900 lol. I know hp is not cheap but man lol. Also not a lot of ppl with srt 4 that have posted their build infomation online have gone over 500 hp, and if they have they use the rage kit, dcr racing kit, or je and wiseco piston.

So go with a tried and true setup then. If you want to do something different then understand the consequences.

Crank is the same regardless of the original application, iirc. Except the trigger wheel, which changed in 2003-ish.