i been researching ITB for my '96 talon esi and was wondering if a kit had been successfully completed all my searches more or less came up dry as all setups were either backburner ideas or still in the concept stage. and was wondering what other mods would be wise, i have a aem v2 intake, dcsport 4-2-1 ceramic header, and will be getting a high flow cat, catback, msd coilpack, udp, fpr. all within the next few months and was just wondering if u guys could send me some pearls of wisdom. i'm not new to the 420a, just new to tuning it.

As far as I know, there isn't an ITB setup yet for the 2gnt. For the Neons, yes. Neons.org has loads of info, read it. That is what I do when I am bored. I go over there and see the crazy shit them Neon guys do.

If you go ITB you can forget about that AEM V2, would be more hassle to run the ITB's to it than it's worth. The hardest part of making this work is a functioning vacuum source, most people go round and round with trying to figure out where to hook that up. Honestly though, don't bother with the ITB's untill you have rebuilt/stroked the engine, invested in cams, and purchased and installed your MS. By that time you will be ready to take full advantage of what the ITB's can offer. I don't think even Driggs has gone ITB yet, and he's the resident N/A nut.

Originally posted by Keith2172
I don't think even Driggs has gone ITB yet, and he's the resident N/A nut.

Hey, Hey! We got a few nuts around here :wavy !

Though everything else Keith says is good info. I have ITB's bouncing around in my head but I got a few mods on the car now. I can't even think of doing it until I get my MSnS on.

I would say that this is certainly one of the more involved mods. One that I have not seen done successfully on our 420a. As Jason stated previously, check out neons.org for a beginner course in how or where to start. Though I wouldn't say there was a "plethera" of info on there, there are a few who have done this mod.

MB

I'm going along with pretty much what everyone has said already.

1. You need to figure a good way to pull vacuum from all 4 runners.
2. Got to figure out the throttle cable bracket and TPS
3. To get the most out of it just go straight to the MSnS (you will see less vaccuum at idle so better to have something where you have complete control over the fuel map.

The rest is really just fabrication. I've had a set of ITBs for like 3 or 4 years now. Never actually used them yet though. Also, check over at ASOG. I believe there has been an Avenger or 2 with ITB setups.

As for the vac source, my idea was to tap a vac input on each TB that feeds to a cylinder mounted either to the assy or the firewall. Then I would mount whatever to that. It would have to be smaller in order to really benefit the ITB set up, imo, but I don't know how it would work with the brakes. :shrug

Lots of information out there on this subject. I've seen Eddy Fierro's set up and it's fairly straight forward.

Originally posted by DR1665
I don't know how it would work with the brakes. :shrug

As far as vacuum for the brakes I think I have a cheap solution, though it's only theory at this point. This is coming from my Mustang project, so I'll talk in terms of a muscle car, but most everything applies.
My 460 came from a '92, thus has a smog pump. My father is a good 'ol boy who cut his teeth in the 70's and 80's on smog cars and he claims they experimented with hooking smog pumps up to provide small amounts of positive manifold pressure (Paxton and Novi weren't around at this time), and it worked till the vanes blew out from too many spikes. Theoretically one could reverse the hosesand run them to the crankcase (or a log) and produce vacuum. There you have it, a cheap, of the shelf, belt driven vacuum pump. If you're building an ITB, fabricating a bracket for the smog pump shouldn't be hard (couldn't be bigger than the A/C compressor).

you can buy mechanical and electrical vacuum pumps now for automotive applications exactly like this.

I guess it's cause my donor vehicle came with a smog pump, but I don't know if I'd spend the $300-$400 Summit wants for one if I can get one at NAPA for $70 :shrug, just a thought for the thrifty minded.

Id just use the power steering...lol

Did somebody get the new Summit catalog??? That does look pretty sweet, wonder how hard it would be to adapt to our master cylinder?

eh?

The brake booster that hooks up to the power steering pump instead of vacuum. You haven't seen this one yet? Hold on, let's see if I can pull a link...

Ok, after hours of intense searching of the intraweb I found it...

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PBS%2D2772%2D750&N=700+4294810048+115&autoview=sku

kinda cool, has interesting possibilities.

What was it you were saying about using the power steering pump? Can you make it pump vacuum or something? That might be useful, need more input!

no, I was talking about thos hydroboost units. they have been around for years now on some bigger trucks.

As far as a hydraulic pump being used as a pneumatic unit...maybe. Dont know how effiecient it would be. Not to mention the lack oflubrication, a medium to transfer heat to...etc

Personally, I still like the idea of plumbing all vac lines from the individual TBs into one little tube and getting the vac source from that. It's more indicative of actual engine vacuum. Besides, I haven't heard of any of the Neon guys having to bother.

IMO, the most important thing is to get the system built and installed. Deal with tuning requirements at that point.

Originally posted by DR1665
Personally, I still like the idea of plumbing all vac lines from the individual TBs into one little tube and getting the vac source from that. It's more indicative of actual engine vacuum. Besides, I haven't heard of any of the Neon guys having to bother. IMO, the most important thing is to get the system built and installed. Deal with tuning requirements at that point.

Mine was going to tap the injector port for each TB, and run a vacuum rail for MAP, vacuum connections and brake booster. Definately run a Vacuum Reservoir with this set up.

I had it all designed, just never built.

Exile Racing Technologies
http://www.exileracing.com
Go that way, really fast, if something gets in your way... turn.

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
Mine was going to tap the injector port for each TB, and run a vacuum rail for MAP, vacuum connections and brake booster. Definately run a Vacuum Reservoir with this set up. I had it all designed, just never built.

In the corner collecting dust like the Franken Catback, no doubt. :P

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by Michael_97RS Mine was going to tap the injector port for each TB, and run a vacuum rail for MAP, vacuum connections and brake booster. Definately run a Vacuum Reservoir with this set up. I had it all designed, just never built.

In the corner collecting dust like the Franken Catback, no doubt. :P

Mine too...LOL. I was actually thinking about making the set up for my Camaro. heh.

I guess I'm just not on the same page, but I figure the only thing you really need true engine vacuum for is the MAP. Anything else that needs vacuum could have a constant supply, like one of the aforementioned electric pumps, or maybe a belt driven vein pump. Really what all do you need vacuum for on this engine? The MAP, the brake booster (assuming you keep it), and the crankcase (so you can run low-tension rings), and what else? I figure an ITB would be on a dedicated race car anyways, so no need for A/C or any other BS.

Don't forget the FPR.

the vc can be plumbed to the exhaust on a dedicated car ;)

Itb's revisited.



Between clearance issues and vaccum sourcing i've come to the conclusion that we need the ideal tb unit. Sourcing vaccum off of a gsx-r 600 looks fairly simple but a 750 gives more room to play around. A honda cbr 650 looks to be a more suitable candidate but the tb's are paired up by some sort of peanut-shaped plate.

Somebody who knows a damn about motorcycles please post as many tb's as you can so the some of us that are interested can get through the headache of sourcing vaccum and controlling idle with or without megasquirt.

A plenum would be a good way to get around this but we need an itb assembly that's small enough to run it without swapping to a neon head.

Help.