I pretty much have my bottom end sorted out and this is no longer an issue for me.

I am working on the head now and trying to figure what will give me the most bang for the buck. I am cash limited on this.

I am considering using my stock head, smooth out the intake/exhaust runners and rebuild it with stock components. I want to upgrade to PT crusier lifter/lash adjusters and blackdog rocker arms. The head will be rebuilt with new seals and my stock valves. My head has 75K miles on it right now.

I would love to use stainless valves, crane springs/titanium retainers and crane turbo grind cams, but my budget is not there for this upgrade.

My goal is to beef up the valve train slightly and create less turbulance in the head.

I am really looking for a smoother midrange torque curve, with the ability to eventually go to a 8000 redline.

The bottom end will be bullet proof. JE Pistons/rings(.020 over), eagle rods, clevite bearings, balanced crank and machined block. All bottom end parts will be cryo treated locally.

My fuel system will be the normal 440cc injectors, 4:1 standard fmu disc/ring and a S-AFC.

I have a friend who has a flow bench and will be cleaning up the head and should get some numbers out of it. Any suggestions on what to do to the head without killing my budget.

Am I on the right track?

your on hte right track, you MUST get new vavlve springs ours are sooooo weak that any spec of carbon will cause problems ie bad idle,etc.. but upgrading just springs will give a much better idle,etc..

>your on hte right track, you MUST get new vavlve springs ours
>are sooooo weak that any spec of carbon will cause problems ie
>bad idle,etc.. but upgrading just springs will give a much
>better idle,etc..

^ interesting. I haven't heard too much bad or of any failures, please more info, especially since I'll be pullnig my head VERY shortly.

The other option is to upgrade the lifters and rockers, and get a spare head to build, and get your P&P done with the other build ups.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

well Ive just heard many have actually had a much better/stable idle with just upgraded springs only, ive heard that the stockers are pretty weak spring rate and any spec of carbon will hold the valve open just a bit and cause a bad idle.

and if your porting/polishing your head dont go to much, I would just have them clean up and flash,etc.. most that have done serious porting work without serious upgrades IE big cams,etc.. have lost power cause your opening it up too much, our heads flow awesome as it is.

I would spend your money on cams/lifters/rockers/springs and call it a day. if youve got the money get some oversides valves w/new seals and a nice valve job 3 angle,5,whatever

i did not know valves could cause a bad idle? for some time now i have been getting bad idles, its like i got motor mounts sometimes.. this has been the case since i was n/a.. never could figure it out..

Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

The head I have is already ported polished and milled, it's at the machine shop being cleaned up now, I have the cams top take care of flow, just need to exhaust to keep up now.

I totally agree not to open too much up on NA, gas velocity is key. I just need to see if I can swing the extra $250 for the springs, ugh...



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

I had heard a couple of Neon guys say that their idle improved with cams and valvesprings, and the tech from the company that made the cams said that the heavier valve springs would close the valves even with a piece of carbon in the way. I don't think that our valvesprings are all that bad, as they go to over 8K without floating. This may be strictly a Neon phenominon, as I have not seen any evidence to indicate weak valvesprings on the 2GNT.
-=B-=

yes this was info from the neon guys, I thought our valvesprings were the same as theirs, correct???

i was trying to edit my post, but it would not let me.. i was going to change valves to valve springs hehe
Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

Maybe thats the cause of my weird idle. It sounds like I have cams. I got new valve seals and a 3 angle valve job on my head when it was rebuilt but I never changed the springs. I think that may be it. But I kinda like my idle.

Neons have a different head and should use different springs.

I've never heard of any problems with them here either. I've kept a pretty close eye on mine ever since I got it. Every time I have the valve cover off I check em and I've never been able to open one by hand. You can use a spring test rig to be sure, but if you can press one down with your thumb while the valve is closed then its probably shot.

EDIT: ...but DeanoD, if you're going for a high redline then I would replace them.


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

Why not get the SS valve now you can always chage the rest of the stuff on the head at a later time without having to pull it off again. That and it would suck to drop a valve after you get all the new internals in.

The headwork will be for my turbo setup and I will explain the details of what me and my friend Don Polk(Polk Performance)have come up with today. Anymore feedback would be appreciated.

Question: Do I really need to upgrade to crane valve springs with my new head if my cams are remaining stock? Are there any other valve spring choices out there that perform well. I have decided that this motor will not go past 8000 rpm anytime soon. If that day comes, custom billet grind cams will be put in the car and flow tested to match perfectly. I am just trying to beef up the head, since it will be off the car and it does have 75K miles on it.



This is the new head setup that we will start on next week. He will also be flowbench testing it as well.

1. SI stainless valves (1-mm oversize)(decent stainless valve for the money)

2. Basic 3 angle valve job with mild bowl work. He will also clean up the runners with a stage 2 port and polish. He does 4G63 race heads and is of the mindset less is better.

3. Blackdog rocker arms

4. PT cruiser lifter/lash adjusters

5. Stock retainers and all new seals in the head.

6. I was planning on using the stock valve springs and have not heard anything bad about them.

7. ARP headstuds Part# 141-4202

This is about it as far as the head is concerned.

I know the topic is for just the head, but here is what we have come up with for the bottom end. More feedback is appreciated as well.

1. JE Pistons/rings(.020 over with 8.8:1 compression)

2. Eagle Rods

3. Clevite 77 main and rod bearings-standard size(we are researching my spare block to see if I need two sets of main bearings. I have the vin#, but I may just order two sets to be safe).

4. We are planning to reuse the main studs as they look beefy as hell. Anyone see a problem with this? Or is there a ARP part number for these as well...just curious.

We are only going to cryotreat the pistons/rings, bearings(rod/mains), eagle rods and the crank. The block does not need it.

The crank will be balanced and everything blueprinted. We are not using the JE piston ring specs for clearances. They are setup too loose a fit according to Polk. He builds race motors for a living and has done many stroker 4G63 motors and a few stroker 4G64 race projects.


I know this is a lot of info, please quote a portion of the write-up when commenting. I could use all the help I can get. Like I said before my spare block is already machined and I now have the pistons/rings and rods. Everything else will be bought. Polk is building the head and motor. He will only be supplying the SI valves for the entire buildup. I will be ordering everyting from blackdog/howell/hahn/APR shortly. I would like to only use one vendor if possible and it depends on who has what in stock so the wait is VERY minimal.

I also will be needing these items:

1. Complete engine gasket kit(including MLS headgasket)
2. Timing belt, tensioner pulley and idler pulley
3. Water pump
4. Melling or stock oil pump(not sure I really need one, mine works fine)

If someone has the part numbers for the SI stainless intake/exhaust valves, that would be helpful. He looked them up, but I would just like to make sure before he orders them. He gets them at a KILLER price.

I have the vin# 4A38K44Y655610122 of my spare block. Does anyone know how to see if it is a 1995 or 1996-99 block. This would save me from ordering two sets of main bearings if I do not really need them.

I am not a moderator in this forum, if someone could sticky this post for a few days so I could get a shit load of comments and help I sure would appreciate it.

Thanks guys.

"If someone has the part numbers for the SI stainless intake/exhaust valves, that would be helpful. He looked them up, but I would just like to make sure before he orders them. He gets them at a KILLER price."
well ask for the dodge neon 94-99 dohc (420a) its not under mitsubishi eclipse.
what price can he get for the si valves?

Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

I cannot quote a price for them here on the board. He made me a package deal and it would be unfair for me to quote a single line item on my head buildup.

I can say that he can beat howell or blackdog on their pricing. He has bought over a thousand SI stainless valves last year. His price is more for our 420A valves than a 4G63 head valve. He is not sure why, but he gave them to me at the same price.

You can call him at 501-847-RACE to get a price. Don Polk is the owner. He mostly deals with 4G63/4G64 motors and all honda build-ups. The market in our area does not call for much neon/420A stuff. He now ships his sheetmetal intakes, shortblocks and heads all over the U.S. He is not the cheapest though.

A good friend of mine just had a 2.3L 4G63 stroker motor built by him. His turbo is a T3/T4B 60-1, stage 3 wheel(.82 AR housing). This thing makes MONSTER torque. I think Don's 4G64 is 2.7L stroker, but do not quote me. This is with a 4G63 head.

>2. Basic 3 angle valve job with mild bowl work. He will also
>clean up the runners with a stage 2 port and polish. He does
>4G63 race heads and is of the mindset less is better.

Good choice... you don't want to remove a whole lot from the 420a head.

>3. Blackdog rocker arms
>4. PT cruiser lifter/lash adjusters
>5. Stock retainers and all new seals in the head.

Cool

>6. I was planning on using the stock valve springs and have
>not heard anything bad about them.

Just replace them! Especially if you plan on high revs ANYTIME in the future. The stockers aren't THAT bad but if you can come up with the extra cash you'll be happy later on down the road that you replaced them now. I have a feeling that we'll all have the ability to rev higher here in the very near future.

>7. ARP headstuds Part# 141-4202

Good choice! Last set of head studs you'll ever buy!

>
>1. JE Pistons/rings(.020 over with 8.8:1 compression)
>2. Eagle Rods
>3. Clevite 77 main and rod bearings-standard size

That's my setup and I love it!

>4. We are planning to reuse the main studs as they look beefy
>as hell. Anyone see a problem with this? Or is there a ARP
>part number for these as well...just curious.

I used the stock ones as well because of cashflow limitations and I'm still pleased with my decision. I would replace them if you rebuild a second time after this one though. The part numbers are on the main site.

>We are only going to cryotreat the pistons/rings,
>bearings(rod/mains), eagle rods and the crank. The block does
>not need it.

That's ok but it's not really NEEDED. I'd ceramic coat the cylinders and combution chambers instead.

>The crank will be balanced and everything blueprinted. We are
>not using the JE piston ring specs for clearances.

I felt the same way about the JE rings and threw out the recommended specs. Maybe that's why I don't get piston slap like most other JE guys do... I dont know, but that's my best guess.

>I also will be needing these items:
>1. Complete engine gasket kit(including MLS headgasket)

Go to MOPAR. Get the kits for an Eagle Talon ESi N/T 420A.

>2. Timing belt

Get all your belts from NAPA. Use Gates brand belts for everything! They're cheaper and better than the OEM belts.

>2.5 tensioner pulley and idler pulley

Leave them alone unless they're worn. If you don't re-install the timing cover, these items will be easy to replace if they start going bad later on down the road. But definetely replace them if they have over 110-120k miles on them.

>3. Water pump

Eh... I don't know, I used the stock one. But again, if it has high milage then replace it. I think they're super cheap at Autozone though.

>4. Melling or stock oil pump(not sure I really need one, mine
>works fine)

Get the Melling. It's like $90 shipped at SummitRacing.com


>I have the vin# 4A38K44Y655610122 of my spare block. Does
>anyone know how to see if it is a 1995 or 1996-99 block. This
>would save me from ordering two sets of main bearings if I do
>not really need them.

That's an incorrect VIN number. One of your 5 is supposed to be an S. So your VIN number is: 4A38K44Y6S5610122. Your block came from a 1995 Eclipse GS 2.0L DOHC.

>I am not a moderator in this forum, if someone could sticky
>this post for a few days so I could get a shit load of
>comments and help I sure would appreciate it.

I'm not a mod so I can't help you there but I did give you a shitload of comments! ;) Good luck with the install man!

Thank you very much my friend. That really helped me in my decisions.

I get a 25% discount at satan with no sales tax. Is the complete engine(upper and lower)gasket rebuilt kit the same from mitsu as from chrysler? no discount from chrysler...as of yet.

I will take your advice and get new valve springs, new oil pump and new water pump. Might as well be safe and not kick myself 20K miles down the road.

I have also considered the blackdog timing belt tensioner instead of the stock one. I have not seen one, but they do seem to make some good products.

BTW: I have never given feedback to ANYONE on this board. When I have time later, I will give out my first one(virgin...LOL) to you. Outstanding replies and very well deserved!

>>2. Basic 3 angle valve job with mild bowl work. He will
>also
>>clean up the runners with a stage 2 port and polish. He does
>>4G63 race heads and is of the mindset less is better.
>
>Good choice... you don't want to remove a whole lot from the
>420a head.

Yes more than a 3 angle is overkill. This guy you are having do your works sounds very good.


>>3. Blackdog rocker arms
>>4. PT cruiser lifter/lash adjusters
>>5. Stock retainers and all new seals in the head.

I would concider a set of adjustable cam gears if it fits in the budget anyway.


>>6. I was planning on using the stock valve springs and have
>>not heard anything bad about them.
>
>Just replace them! Especially if you plan on high revs
>ANYTIME in the future. The stockers aren't THAT bad but if
>you can come up with the extra cash you'll be happy later on
>down the road that you replaced them now. I have a feeling
>that we'll all have the ability to rev higher here in the very
>near future.

On stock cams, I think you'd be okay. With aftermarket cams they would see more abuse, and the more radical the grind the greater the abuse. But also, you autocross, putting your car through some good abuse on a fairly regular basis. While itmay not be needed, the upgrade is recommended. (now I'm also talking myself into finding the money for a set of Crower springs/retainers).


>>1. JE Pistons/rings(.020 over with 8.8:1 compression)
>>2. Eagle Rods
>>3. Clevite 77 main and rod bearings-standard size
>
>That's my setup and I love it!

I would recommend staying more stock compression, again you autocross, probably covering a descent amount of the rpm range. The slightly higher compression I think would be a good things to keep some power if you slip down a little lower in the rev range. Plus I'm a big fan of higher compression and turbo.


>>4. We are planning to reuse the main studs as they look
>beefy
>>as hell. Anyone see a problem with this? Or is there a ARP
>>part number for these as well...just curious.
>
>I used the stock ones as well because of cashflow limitations
>and I'm still pleased with my decision. I would replace them
>if you rebuild a second time after this one though. The part
>numbers are on the main site.

Yes it would be good to upgrade, but it all comes down to money (unfortunately).


>>We are only going to cryotreat the pistons/rings,
>>bearings(rod/mains), eagle rods and the crank. The block
>does not need it.
>
>That's ok but it's not really NEEDED. I'd ceramic coat the
>cylinders and combution chambers instead.

I think it would be a good idea to do both. both will aid in more evenly disapating heat over the surface of the piston. I think if you are going to do one I would pick ceramic coating, and then concider ceramic coating valve faces and combustion surface in the head.


>>The crank will be balanced and everything blueprinted. We are
>>not using the JE piston ring specs for clearances.
>
>I felt the same way about the JE rings and threw out the
>recommended specs. Maybe that's why I don't get piston slap
>like most other JE guys do... I dont know, but that's my best
>guess.

Yes, there no excuse to not balance the assembly when building a motor you plan on really using. (read Jason :P)


>>I also will be needing these items:
>>1. Complete engine gasket kit(including MLS headgasket)
>
>Go to MOPAR. Get the kits for an Eagle Talon ESi N/T 420A.

Give Bob Kise a call at Forum Dodge, his prices are unbelievable and depending on what you get that 25% will beat your price. The gaskets you get from Mitsu for the 420A are actually Mopar gaskets,by me you can even see the Chrysler/Mopar label under the new Mitsu label slapped on. Give Bob a call and make sure to tell him you are from 2GNT, there is a discount. Then compare prices.

>>2. Timing belt
>
>Get all your belts from NAPA. Use Gates brand belts for
>everything! They're cheaper and better than the OEM belts.

Here's where I disagree, go Goodyear Gatorbacks, they really are the best belts out there in my opinion. It's what goes in mine when I put do my head here shortly, I have the belts already.

>>2.5 tensioner pulley and idler pulley
>
>Leave them alone unless they're worn. If you don't re-install
>the timing cover, these items will be easy to replace if they
>start going bad later on down the road. But definetely
>replace them if they have over 110-120k miles on them.
>
>>3. Water pump
>
>Eh... I don't know, I used the stock one. But again, if it
>has high milage then replace it. I think they're super cheap
>at Autozone though.

Yeah high mileage do it for convience sake because everything is off already, no other reason I can think of.


>>4. Melling or stock oil pump(not sure I really need one,
>mine works fine)
>
>Get the Melling. It's like $90 shipped at SummitRacing.com

You can always go with ExtremeRS's rebuild method, I'm pretty sure that's all Mellings did, because it is a stock replacement, not a performance pump. I would probably buy one myself, I don't really feel like rebuilding an oil pump...


>>I am not a moderator in this forum, if someone could sticky
>>this post for a few days so I could get a shit load of
>>comments and help I sure would appreciate it.
>
>I'm not a mod so I can't help you there but I did give you a
>shitload of comments! ;) Good luck with the install man!

Well I am; pinned.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

dude, does he have the SI ss swirl valves in stock for us 420a guys? oh yah in standard size? if so i might call him asap..
hehe
Michael 99gs
HRC Stage 2 @12psi :D
Stage 3 process begins gathering parts for rebuild
2GNT Member #32

http://www.dreamwater.net/purplebeast

Replace the idler and tensioner pulley I don't care if you have 60,001 miles on the car replace them!!!!! I did my timing belt at 70K because it was making a funny noise, when I took of the cover the balls from the tensioner pulley fell out. The pulley had split into 2 parts and there was shrape metal inside the cover. Not only that but the belt was almost ripped in half because of this. I got very lucky my timing belt would have probably lasted about 2 more minutes and remember this is at only 70k. The pulleys are the same exact thing however the tensioner comes with a new bracket, so as long as your old one is not rusted or broken just buy two of the idler pulleys and save a few bucks (I am almost sure that is correct but it may be the other way around its been over a year since I did mine so just buy a two of the cheaper one). The retainers/springs can be changed at a later time without removing the head so if you can't do them now it would not be to hard to do them at a later time and as stated above make sure you change them when you decide to raise the redline or change the cams the stock springs will work but not very well. Replace the oil pump/water pump you might as well its cheap and easy with the block out of the car. dougie2 and Michael_97RS already took care of the rest better then I ever could. the setup sounds very nice and like I said before it is very similair to the one I am looking at for my spare head.

>>Get all your belts from NAPA. Use Gates brand belts for
>>everything! They're cheaper and better than the OEM belts.
>
>Here's where I disagree, go Goodyear Gatorbacks, they really
>are the best belts out there in my opinion. It's what goes in
>mine when I put do my head here shortly, I have the belts
>already.

Goodyear Gatorback belts are indeed great belts... but Gates has a long-standing history of being the best of any belt available. Seasoned mechanics will inform you that you can't beat a Gates and and they're the best around... plus, NAPA stocks every available belt for our 420A with the Gates name. Gatorback belts and rumored to be VERY great belts, but I'm going with time-proven performance on this one. Sorry Matt! ;P Either one should work great, I just use Gates on ALL my engine rebuilds and I haven't have a single sqweak or break.




>>Get the Melling. It's like $90 shipped at SummitRacing.com
>
>You can always go with ExtremeRS's rebuild method, I'm pretty
>sure that's all Mellings did, because it is a stock
>replacement, not a performance pump. I would probably buy one
>myself, I don't really feel like rebuilding an oil pump...

The Melling pump is a slightly upgraded performance pump. I get 25-30psi at idle and about 75psi at WOT. Perfect in my opinion.

Hmm... I didn't know the high end pressure rating was that high at WOT for the Mellings... Now my curiosity is peaked. I wonder what rating for a relief spring they are using.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

>The headwork will be for my turbo setup and I will explain
>the details of what me and my friend Don Polk(Polk
>Performance)have come up with today. Anymore feedback would be
>appreciated.
>
>Question: Do I really need to upgrade to crane valve springs
>with my new head if my cams are remaining stock? Are there
>any other valve spring choices out there that perform well. I
>have decided that this motor will not go past 8000 rpm anytime
>soon. If that day comes, custom billet grind cams will be put
>in the car and flow tested to match perfectly. I am just
>trying to beef up the head, since it will be off the car and
>it does have 75K miles on it.
>
>
>
>This is the new head setup that we will start on next week. He
>will also be flowbench testing it as well.
>
>1. SI stainless valves (1-mm oversize)(decent stainless valve
>for the money)

decent choice
>
>2. Basic 3 angle valve job with mild bowl work. He will also
>clean up the runners with a stage 2 port and polish. He does
>4G63 race heads and is of the mindset less is better.

good choice
>
>3. Blackdog rocker arms
>
>4. PT cruiser lifter/lash adjusters
>
>5. Stock retainers and all new seals in the head.
>
>6. I was planning on using the stock valve springs and have
>not heard anything bad about them.

grab the crane or crower springs
>
>7. ARP headstuds Part# 141-4202
>
>This is about it as far as the head is concerned.
>
>I know the topic is for just the head, but here is what we
>have come up with for the bottom end. More feedback is
>appreciated as well.
>
>1. JE Pistons/rings(.020 over with 8.8:1 compression)
>
>2. Eagle Rods
>
>3. Clevite 77 main and rod bearings-standard size(we are
>researching my spare block to see if I need two sets of main
>bearings. I have the vin#, but I may just order two sets to be
>safe).
>
>4. We are planning to reuse the main studs as they look beefy
>as hell. Anyone see a problem with this? Or is there a ARP
>part number for these as well...just curious.

good choice


>
>We are only going to cryotreat the pistons/rings,
>bearings(rod/mains), eagle rods and the crank. The block does
>not need it.

ceramic coat them no need to cryotreat them

>
>The crank will be balanced and everything blueprinted. We are
>not using the JE piston ring specs for clearances. They are
>setup too loose a fit according to Polk. He builds race motors
>for a living and has done many stroker 4G63 motors and a few
>stroker 4G64 race projects.

good choice, make sure its balanced on very tight clearances, but then again u are dealing witha a race shop i dont think it will be a big issue

>
>
>I know this is a lot of info, please quote a portion of the
>write-up when commenting. I could use all the help I can get.
>Like I said before my spare block is already machined and I
>now have the pistons/rings and rods. Everything else will be
>bought. Polk is building the head and motor. He will only be
>supplying the SI valves for the entire buildup. I will be
>ordering everyting from blackdog/howell/hahn/APR shortly. I
>would like to only use one vendor if possible and it depends
>on who has what in stock so the wait is VERY minimal.
>
>I also will be needing these items:
>
>1. Complete engine gasket kit(including MLS headgasket)
forum motors group

>2. Timing belt, tensioner pulley and idler pulley
>3. Water pump
>4. Melling or stock oil pump(not sure I really need one, mine
>works fine)

replace them if u can why not, i dont wanna tear all athat apart to replace the stuff later


>
>If someone has the part numbers for the SI stainless
>intake/exhaust valves, that would be helpful. He looked them
>up, but I would just like to make sure before he orders them.
>He gets them at a KILLER price.
>
>I have the vin# 4A38K44Y655610122 of my spare block. Does
>anyone know how to see if it is a 1995 or 1996-99 block. This
>would save me from ordering two sets of main bearings if I do
>not really need them.
>
>I am not a moderator in this forum, if someone could sticky
>this post for a few days so I could get a shit load of
>comments and help I sure would appreciate it.
>
>Thanks guys.
>

Few things to add. I rebuilt my oil pump for about 45-50 bucks. Got the parts at the dealer, and there are only 2 rotors, a cover, relief valve, and spring, inside the pump. Thats it. Taking it apart and replacing the parts is cake. Basically, you just reuse the housing, and all new parts go inside. Saves a bit of cash. I see about 25 psi of oil pressure at idle, and around 57 psi at crusing speeds(35-45 MPH).

GET NEW T-Belt pullies! Around 30 bucks each at the dealer. Dont skimp on anything having to do with the timing belt. I used a Napa timing belt, and is very good quality. I also used a Napa water pump, around 25 bucks. IMO, i would not do much if any work to the bowl area of the head. This part of the head is tricky, and you can alter your quench area of the head, and it changes lots of things. Of course, i'm not a machineist, so talk it over with the guy. Upgrading the vavle springs would be a good upgrade to do, if the money permits.

We are using SI stainless steel valves(swirled)1-mm oversized. He does like to do some blending with a standard 3 angle valve job and very light bowl work. My head builder/porter is a true expert and has done this for many years.

He is working with John Shepard on a few things at the moment. I do not like to bring these things to the board or talk shit here, so I will leave it at that.

I have decided to use crane valve springs as many of you suggested.

I believe someone called Polk Performance today and requested SI stainless valves in standard size, but they are backordered(as with most other vendors). I wanted (1 mm) oversized anyway, so this did not affect me.

Thanks for the comments and advice guys. If anyone else has something else to add, just chime in. I plan on using almost ALL NEW parts for the buildup(head and bottom end). Everything timing belt or moving part related will be new.

I can get cryotreating done locally and it is very inexpensive for me. Ceramic coating will not be an option for me at this time. Cryotreating does wonders for anyting that deals with heat and really helps resist cracking and strengthens. It also seems to dissipate heat much better than noncryotreated components. I do not have numbers to back this up, but I can get anyone in contact with the man who has this info.

The motor and head I am building should be good to 600hp. I will not have the supporting mods to make this happen for a couple years. If that time comes, the motor will most likely have less than 10K miles on it(no longer daily driver) so that could likely become a reality. And yes, eagle rods will hold the power if they are cryotreated properly.

I would not mind hearing from others who have built some avenger monsters or our turbo guys that have had built motors/heads for a long time now.

sorry, minor hijack, but are the valves, or valve springs from howell any good? $99 for a set of springs? someone above mentioned $250. also, if buying valves, would you need any work done on the head or is it a drop and go kind of thing?

Someone hook me up with a website that has oversized valves and bulldog rockers/pt cruiser rockers!! I cant seem to find a website that sells these items!!!

The reason you ca't find the rockers is they are Black Dog.
http://www.blackdogmotorsports.com

The rocker body is the same but the oiling hole has been revised on the Black Dog ones for better oiling control in the lifters.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

im retarded!! Sorry for me not being able to read!!

Just the valve springs themselves are going to run around $100. The $250 is for valve spring and titanium retainers.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Why is this topic locked up top??

Because it is outstanding information that needs to be seen for a few days. With the numerous posts we have, sometimes people with knowledge skip over important posts.

Also this topic is probably the most money you will ever spend on your car in one shot(besides the turbo setup). I think it needs attention and all the feedback it can get. I will have over three thousand dollars in the head and motor. If I was not hooked up, it would be over four thousand. This has nothing to do with the fuel system upgrades to support the power I want to make.

Is this reason enough? It will probably last a few more days. Hopefully you can hold out that long:)

One more thing: not many people have gotten into the head and went all out on a complete race setup. I plan on saving the whole thing on my pc for later review and when subjects pop up about head rebuilds, I can quote some of this already researched info.

This post will stay up for a little while for all the reasons Deano stated, and then shortly after being unpinned will move to the things seen before section for good information storage.

And don't forget the most important reason: *cough* assume fake parent voice *cough* "Because I said so." :P



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

"Replace the idler and tensioner pulley I don't care if you have 60,001 miles on the car replace them!!!!! "

I couldnt agree with this more..

One time after I went through the trouble of changing my timing belt...i didnt make 10 miles and the timing belt tensioner pulley broke straight off.....i couldnt be more pissed off!

In another buddy of mine's avenger, his timing belt pulleys completely failed....leaving all the ball bearings to be all over the timing belt area...bent a couple of valves while at it as well.

I wish i had the pictures online to show the damage but i'll try to put it up...
_________________
Vinnie Lima
vinnie.lima@jvllogistics.com
AIM: Kiku888
1997 Chrysler Sebring "Silver XTC"
I4 420a w/ HRC Stage 2.45 w/ FMIC
14.7@97 mph@6psi
Proud member of the
ASOG BoOsT JuNkIe Crew