Go back to previous topic | Forum name | Performance/Engine | Topic subject | 2.4 swap "How-to" | Topic URL | http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=109293 |
109293, 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by 99atxdsm, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
EDIT: Keep in mind this is for a NEON and NOT A DSM. It is a good read for insight into what sort of things go on in this swap, but it is not the end-all instructions.
While browsing around Neons.org tonight I came across this, with of course there will be differences in how we go about things, but it should help stop Most of any further redudant 2.4 questions. 56k warning on this page. complete 2.4 swap "How to" thread. http://forums.neons.org/viewtopic.php?t=318202
Remember you will need a custom made side motor mount as well, the one in the thread is for a neon not a 2gnt dsm also Includes: all parts required from both your 2.0 and for the 2.4 w/ part #s -how to remove balance shafts -the "correct" way to rewire the outer coils & injectors.
the pinouts on the PCM may be different for our cars pertaining to the injectors and coils, so if someone could look up those numbers we will have it straight.
I'd recommend a sticky for this, so anyone that thinks about asking a question that's been answered one too many times they can just check this out.
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109299, RE: 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by Star Turbo Talon, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
We cant use 2.4 cams. Please do not post material that is going to lead our members down a road where they do more damage than good.
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109304, RE: 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by 99atxdsm, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
I'll retract that statement then, but other than that it should help those that are serious about doing the swap or those that have never done the swap with a general idea of how to go about the removal of their 2.0 then installment of the 2.4.
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109305, RE: 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by alain95i4, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
http://aseclub.net/forums/24-swap-infos-t67755.html
here's a better 2.4 swap how to
Alain
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109308, RE: 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by teklein, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
Just so you know, when you click that link it goes to ASEC, but then says the post in invalid.
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109309, RE: 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by alain95i4, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
the 2.4 engine used in the swap is the one from Chrysler found in the following cars Stratus, Cirrus, Breeze, Caravan, PT Cruiser, Sebring convertible, Stratus Sebring sedan 2g
you can use any engine from 1995 up to 2002 2003 was the introduction of the NGC computer and the new crank sensor system which is not compatible with our computers so avoid 2003 and up that include the pt cruiser turbo and srt-4 engines
to do the swap you also need to replace the 2.4 head with a 420a 2.0l head from an Avenger, Sebring, or 2GNT Talon or Eclipse if you bought a late model 2.4 (2001-2002) you could have one with the new generation of lifters and rockers knowned as the pt cruiser style lifters and rockers you could swap those in your 420a head for a nice upgrade the headgasket are the same 2.4 or 2.0 you could use either ones
the 2.4 used 3 different timming belt tensionner setup over the years early model 95 to late 96 used an hydraulic system similar to the one on our 2.0 engines, big difference is the tensionner pulley it bolts on the water pump instead of the block, and many neon guys have blown the water pump in pieces when using big cams , the pump is not strong enought and you need a particular model of pump to use it the second system was used from early 97 to 2002 it's a mechanical tensionner and not a very good one 2003 was the introduction of the second generation tensionner and it's the one you should use, it's the one that you found on the srt-4 turbo engine too
to do the swap you also need an UDP because most 2.4 setup have the alternator in the front and the power steering pump in the back and the oil filter is just near the pulley, a stock size pulley will not fit properly a UDP is mandatory
the 2.4 come also stock with balancer shafts they are in a housing inside the oil pan you need to remove them , they are feeded by an oil gallery that you will need to patch somehow, easiest way is to tap threads inside and put a bolt with red loctite
you will need a custom oil pan, mine and Schoby's pan were made using stratus 2g pan cut and tig welded , a custom pan is needed to make space for the exhaust downpipe and the cross member under the car some early years of the 2.4 have a nice steel pan easy to work with other years have a double layer pan with insultation material, avoid at all cost also avoid turbo engine oil pan , not a good choice late model stratus have an alloy pan
oil pump again here several choices are possible some are better than others again me and schoeby we used a stratus 2g pump it's probably the best you could get early model stratus put the filter 90's from the engine making a mess when you unscrew it, caravan pump have a very long neck for the filter not a good choice either turbo engines have the filter separate from the pump and you need the turbo oil pan to use it, not a good choice again
you will also need a custom made engine mount for the timming belt a simple solution is to buy a srt-4 engine mount , the part that goes on the engine it's also the power steering pump on the srt-4 and it's very easy to put the mitsubishi power steering pump that our cars have right on it the mount also has 2 nice bolt holes on top hunt the junk yard for a 1g DSM engine mount that goes on the driver side i's a big piece of steel with a donut the same size as the one on our cars but since it's steel it's very easy to weld on it, unlike the alloy one that we have from there you cut the DSM mount to keep the donut only and once the engine is under the hood you could hack and weld yourself a simple and strong engine mount using a piece of square tube and a piece flat metal it was 1 hour job on my swap
pistons and rods ,you could use the stock ones for a NA setup or for an affordable turbo setup you could use srt-4 pistons rods rings and bearing they are really cheap price wise everything is around 1/4 to 1/2 of regular 2.0 parts if you are using 2g style pistons either turbo or na you will need to turn the pistons 180 degres the top of the pistons is made with a large and the slope should face the exhaust side on NA pistons you could just unbolt the rod and turn the whole thing on turbo piston it's a floating pin system and the rod is also directionnal because the base of the turbo rod had a oil squirting system you can't just turn them so you will need to split the piston from the rod and turn only the piston 180 degres you could also have aftermarket forged pistons and rods srt- parts should be good for 400 hp
electrical compatibilty: the 2.4 and the 2.0 are using the same style of computer but the engine have a big difference, because of the balancing shaft assembly the crank sensor on the 2.4 engine is not on cylinder 1 but on cylinder 2 the cam sensor magnet is also positionned in different way than the neon dohc engine to keep the right timming the 2.4 computer knows it , our don't there's an easy cure for that, we need to make our computer think that cylinder 2 is cylinder 1 of a 2.0 first we need to turn the magnet of the cam sensor 90 degres CLOCKWISE by doing so when cylinder 2 will be at TDC the magnet instead of showing cylinder 1 at BDC it will show like cylinder 1 at TDC second we need to switch injectors from 1 position to the left cylinder 1 injector is connected to cylinder 2, cylinder 2 is connected on cylinder 3, cylinder 3 is connected on cylinder 4 and cylinder 4 is connected on cylinder 1 last step is to cut wire 1 and 3 of the coil pack and connect them 1 on 3 and 3 on 1
what's happening by doing all this when cylinder 2 is at TDC by reading the crank sensor the computer thinks that cylinder 1 is at TDC the computer verify by reading the cam sensor, the magnet is turned 90 degres the computer is not sure that cylinder 1 is at TDC it will send fuel on cylinder 1 and fire on cylinder 1 and 4 (that's how our coil pack always firing 2 plugs at the same time) but we rewired the injectors harness so the real open injector is on cylinder 2 and since we also reversed how the coil pack is working instead of firing 1 and 4 we are sending fire on 2 and 3 neat and easy how could also fine tune your timming by playing a little with the magnet
performance wise the 2.4 was design by the truck division of Chrysler using off the shelves parts from the neon/420a engine and refined by the engine division it's a workhorse and not a high speed runner on stock form the 2.4 is very restricted by a choice of cams made for a smooth low to mid rpm with no air available above 5500 but with a ported head, big or huge cams , a performance computer and all the performance parts available the 2.4 made over 230 WHp in several neons
I don't recommend doing an atmospheric 2.4 in our car because we lack many many parts to really profit from the swap, we almost don't have performance computer except for 97 , we don't have real long tube headers etc etc
for turbo the swap is very interesting since a turbo engine don't really need to rev above 6000 rpm and srt-4 parts are really affordables with the stock 2.0 cams right now without the turbo i could push the engine to 6000 rpm so far that's enought for me since i have an atx car
the engine can work with the mtx or atx tranny and i strongly recommend a 55 mm tb
that's about it for today
Alain
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109310, RE: 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by alain95i4, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
first add-on
there are 3 style of water pump that you could use first generation with hydraulic tensionner AKA the Caravan style pump first generation with mechanical tensionner nothing special that's the one I used a new water pump was introduced with the turbocharged engine it has a superior flow and the impeller is different if I would do it again I would take that on
about the accesories alternator you could reuse your own bracket the upper bracket bolts on the 2.4 engine and you cut in half the lower bracket to make it fit on the only available bolt hole on the lower portion of the block you will need longer bolts and washers to install and get the right alignment of the alternator and crank pulleys
power steering belt shoeby found a belt just long enought to use it without the need of a tensionner if you want a tensionner you could buy the srt-4 ac bracket and srt-4 belt tensionner which bolts on the ac bracket someone on 2GNT used it without an ac compressor he drilled a hole so he could move the tensionner a little and used it with the power steering only the avenger/sebring ac compressor doesn't fit on the srt-4 ac bracket at all I will use a srt-4 ac compressor in my car fitted with the avenger/sebring clutch and a shim plate to align everything
Alain
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109311, RE: 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by alain95i4, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
today I tried a 180 degre thermostat instead of the 192 one the temperature control of the engine is much better know I recommend 180 based on my experiences so far
Alain
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109312, RE: 2.4 swap "How-to" Posted by alain95i4, Dec-31-69 06:00 PM
made another upgrade 2 weeks ago I switched the old 2.0 injectors that I used on my 2.4 for some #24 injectors
made a huge difference, egt dropped 150-200F all around and the engine is more reposive
Alain
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