Although i am new, I at least tried searching for what Im looking for. Two weeks ago my car broke a timing belt. I am now in the process of removing the engine and transmission. Before you ask why, it needed to be done before, now I just have a reason. Im putting in a new NV trans and Zoom clutch, cleaning up my engine bay, and just make it easier to do timing and install a crank pulley. I just ordered an AFX UDP from Howell, Im hoping it doesnt take like a month to get here.

My question is on Camshafts. Cams and Cam gears are probably the last mod I will do to my GS before I look for a GST, so I can still use the GS as a somewhat reliable DD. I have searched dsmtalk, here, youtube and yahoo looking for videos or general information on cams for the 420a. Anyone have any experience with them? Like what brand should I go with, Crower, Crane, AEM? Does it affect Gas milage to any extent? So far the only information I have heard on them is Crower stage 1s make your car sound like v-tec, but meaner. Any info on these (as well as the UDP I just bought) would be very helpful.

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
I just ordered an AFX UDP from Howell, Im hoping it doesnt take like a month to get here.

Pray that's all it takes. howell has been known to take several MONTHS for retardedly simple orders

Thats what I have heard from a few people now, after I already ordered it. But whenever I ask someone what UDP they have they say AFX. I was going to get a knockoff one off ebay for like $40 shipped, but I didnt hear anything good about them, or anyone buying them.

Speaking of the AFX pulley, is the 30% underdrive enough that it makes a difference but doesnt destroy the alternator? A buddy of mine got a pulley for his ZX2, his a/c sucks and his battery needs charged quite a bit. I asked like 2 other people with them on 420s and they said they havent had any problems

only problems ive heard of with the UDP's (UR and AFX) are usually caused by :
1. People buying knockoffs versions
2. User error in the instalation
not getting in on all the way or leaving it crocked.
3. damage to the pully itself that causes belt shredding or belt jumping.

i've had the Unorthodox Racing UDP for 4 years now and not a single problem with it as a DD. my AC is ice cold most of the time (floring it on an onramp, or passing someone is the only time it goes sligtly warm)
and never had a problem with my alternator, and i have a fairly potent and demanding stero in the car


as for cams, stick with either crower or crane.
however, unless your gonna turbo or go High-comp NA, the stock cams are fairly decent for general and lightly tuned use.
but others can chime in if they used them for a mild tuned car

ok, couple of questions, are you planning on staying turbo or NA? crower is a great brand, and so is crane, if you are planning on going turbo most people do recomend getting the crower 2 turbo grinds, due to the less overlap.If you are planning on staying NA, crane also offers a little bit more options too. keep in mind that depending on what type of cams you get it would be a good idea to upgrade other parts of your valve train. now if you are just looking for a small little extra power I think the crower 1's should be good, or look into the crane 14's, unless I have bad memory of what i have read people say they are both good for turbo and NA applications, a little research will give you a more thorough answer to your question dude.

Originally posted by barza21
ok, couple of questions, are you planning on staying turbo or NA? crower is a great brand, and so is crane, if you are planning on going turbo most people do recomend getting the crower 2 turbo grinds, due to the less overlap.If you are planning on staying NA, crane also offers a little bit more options too. keep in mind that depending on what type of cams you get it would be a good idea to upgrade other parts of your valve train. now if you are just looking for a small little extra power I think the crower 1's should be good, or look into the crane 14's, unless I have bad memory of what i have read people say they are both good for turbo and NA applications, a little research will give you a more thorough answer to your question dude.

Crane 14's are the turbo grind cams, don't get them. Everyone that has them are not happy with them. I have the 12's(Nitrous grind) and if I chose to replace the cams I would get either Crane 16 or Crower 2 turbos if boosting and Crane 18's or Crower 2s if staying na. Note: Valvetrain mods might be needed depending on which cam.

Im planning on going sort of the "All motor" route. But I dont want to run 12s on all motor. I just want to have a little extra go-go from my car. With just the small mods I have now and a complete tune up it was noticeably more responsive and accelerated faster. So I figure I should be happy with UPD, Cams and Cam gears. This car will be getting me back and forth to work still.

I looked at the crower cams on slowboy racings page. I read up about stage 1 and 2, didnt even bother reading 3 because I know they are really aggressive. I will most likely get crower stage 1s in a few weeks when I can afford them. So I should get the Valve kit that they sell for that also? Thanks for the info.

Also, there is one vid on youtube of a N/T 420a with cams, but they are AEM.

the stage 1 cams don't require the springs/retainers but it's not a bad idea to go ahead and get them.

Ok I will look into that.

I just checked the order status of my UDP...

On backorder....

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
Ok I will look into that. I just checked the order status of my UDP... On backorder.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lol... Call and bitch enough that they may actually cancel it.

Otherwise your gonna be waiting for a while...

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=36&topic_id=542&mesg_id=542&page=

All anyone needs to know about Howell :(

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
I just checked the order status of my UDP... On backorder.... NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

hence the reason i own the UR one :P

1. When you install the UDP, you will notice it has 3 main spokes to it. A nice little trick when you install it, pull the timing belt cover off and cut a window in it so that, when the cover is installed, you can verify that your lower timing marks line up. Then, with those marks lined up, install the UDP so you can see the marks between the spokes. If you do this, you will never have to pull the UDP and lower cover to confirm timing marks again. It's a great time saver.

2. Crane cams have nice grinds to them. A lot of the Neon guys prefer them for their less aggressive ramp angles on the higher lift profiles. It promotes valve train longevity. IMO, the Crowers are a smarter grind. They feel a bit sharper for the money. Had C2s in the car for more than two years and they were great. Going with a stage 1 cam is hardly worth the money, since they provide such minimal gains. A set of C2s will give you a nice idle and solid pull through mid-range to redline. Only with heavy porting and oversized valves will a set of C2s result in a loss of low end torque due to the combined reduction in low engine speed charge velocity.

If you have plans to step into a 4G63-powered car in the future, I wouldn't invest too much into the engine bay. You'll lose your money fast. Consider an ebay intake with a quality filter, a GST catback and the UDP for a zippy daily driver that will still get 30mpgs on the highway.

EDIT:
And you will want to get the upgraded lifters and springs with anything more than a stage 1 cam. It's not hard to drop $1000 on cams and valvetrain parts. Food for thought.

Ok thanks for the great info. I might as well get the stage 2s because the are the same price. I didnt want to order stage 1 without asking about them for the reason I was told, most people would rather have gotten 2s if they knew 1s were the way they are.

And I really wish I would have seen that thread about HA before I ordered the pulley :( I really wanted to get it done while the motor was out of the car. Do you guys think I should just wait, do it when it gets here? Or try to cancel the order? I paid with paypal, and my mom told me today the money is still in the bank.

I would hang tight a while longer. Sure, they have a reputation for drama and trying to bully customers who won't tolerate their BS, but it's less stressful if you can just sit tight and get on with your life.

You can install the UDP with the engine in the car. In fact, it's one of the very last things most people do when they install the engine. Do enough reading around here and you'll find people suggesting removal of the UDP before pulling the engine (without the transmission) in order to provide clearance.

I would *still* mod that timing belt cover while it's easy to get to. A spinning pulley of any kind less than a mm off that cover is going to prevent anything which could damage things from getting in there.

Hello all

whats so bad about stage ones?

Do they not give any increase in power at all or bearly any?
cause I was thining about getting stage ones since im not going for anything too crazy. I only want to do 15s maybe a 14.9 I dont think id need stage 2 for that.

Yeah stage 1s, Im told, are better than stock but it wont be a huge kick in the pants. Maybe a little more gitty-up. Im going for 2s because I want it to be a somewhat nasty 420a. The more mods you have, such as intake and exhaust, the better it will respond to stage 1 cams.

haha alright. well again im not looking for much, especially with gas prices im pretty sure stage 2s arent gonna help that lol.
So I guess ima go for stage 1s.

Anybody got a vid or sound clip with stage 1s one?

most go stage 2 because of the "price for performance", if you notice the pricing, stage 2's are the same as the stage 1's. therefore instead of buying another set when they want the performance upgrade they end up buying just the one set and calling it good.

funny thing, i got my cams from howell like 2-3 weeks after order.

is it safe to go stage two without a turbo. i have je and eagle rods and i noticed that my car is higher in rpms on the high way. with stock 9:1 i was at 2-2.5rpms and now with the 8:1 je at 70mph im at 3rpms. i need a turbo bad.

Originally posted by scorpo86
i have je and eagle rods and i noticed that my car is higher in rpms on the high way. with stock 9:1 i was at 2-2.5rpms and now with the 8:1 je at 70mph im at 3rpms. i need a turbo bad.

What?!? dude, that makes no sense... you can't change your rpm vs mph without changing some sort of gearing - pistons/rods won't do jack. Unless your atx and you're trans is slipping.

Originally posted by justins71

Originally posted by scorpo86 i have je and eagle rods and i noticed that my car is higher in rpms on the high way. with stock 9:1 i was at 2-2.5rpms and now with the 8:1 je at 70mph im at 3rpms. i need a turbo bad.

What?!? dude, that makes no sense... you can't change your rpm vs mph without changing some sort of gearing - pistons/rods won't do jack. Unless your atx and you're trans is slipping.

x2

it is true, I learned that rpm is not based on the engines power, but on the gearing like mentioned above, so if this is correct, with your new compression you will still go 75mph at 3k rpm (example), what is going be the difference is how long it takes you to get to those 75 mph... maybe it takes longer to get there, but the rpms will remain constant at certain speed... just my .02¢

Hmm, well I ordered that pulley on june 10th, and as of today its still on backorder. A few weeks ago I sent them an email just for shits and giggles, and he said theyre still waiting on time in the machine shop. Im normally a REALLY patient and calm guy, but what the fuck do I do here? I just ordered an F1 racing clutch, and as soon as thats here my car goes back together. A month is rediculous to have to wait for something my dad could have made on his CNC machine on his fuckin lunch break.

Can you pass SMOG with aftermarket Cam Gears?

Originally posted by Nisshoku81
Can you pass SMOG with aftermarket Cam Gears?

Yes.