Yeah this is a pretty useless post. Just wanted to let everyone know I'm attempting to change my HG for the first time. So far it's going pretty well due to the search button being awesome (Ya hear that FNG's, it's awesome use it, it even helps out the mods ;)) Anyways I'm at the point of having to get the front timing cover off, but had to stop for the day due to other reasons. It doesn't look like it's gonna be fun, but I'll manage with a few tools and this site :thumbsup <---that's for all the guys that help clear up the oh so wonderful directions in the manual "remove timing cover" (yeah thanks a lot chilton/haynes that was a helpful instruction)

edit: oh yeah, so far there's one possible casualty (my oil pan) a little mishap resulted in it becoming a bit dented so I may have to change it out for the other one I have. I'll get pics up and take opinions from others in the next day or two.

I had the same thing happen to my oil pan during my first attempt at replacing the timing belt. Luckily, after dropping the pan and a few taps with the butt end of a hammer, it was back to normal. Good luck Corey. You know 2gnt will be here if you need it! :thumbsup

It's not as bad as it looks. The hardest part for me was getting the bolts out of the side motor mount. After Dino told me the secret the rest of the t-belt change was cake. Also, don't drill a hole through the fender.

Originally posted by freelancefool
The hardest part for me was getting the bolts out of the side motor mount.

Amen to that.

IMO...

1. Take all (3) bolts holding that bracket to the block as far out as you can get them.
2. Drop the engine as low as you can get it. "Pump" downwards on it with your right hand and reach under the wheel well with your left to pull the lower bolt out.
3. Jack the engine up as high as you can get it and pull the top bolt out.
4. Look/feel around the hard vac lines that run along the fender well, there, for the recess. Use a screwdriver to gently pry those lines upwards at the top of the strut tower area. Then slowly lower the engine until the remaining bolt will slip between the vac lines into that recess, allowing you to rotate the bracket with it for removal.
5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it.

I didn't have to pry the vacuum lines apart. I just pulled the bolt out, jacked up a little and slid the bolt out a little bit more.

Originally posted by DirtMegirt
Good luck Corey. You know 2gnt will be here if you need it! :thumbsup

Thank you that's what I love about this place there's always people here to help as long as you try to help yourself too. After these bolts are out I feel the rest is going to be fairly easy Hopefully I can get the bolts out in the morning

Originally posted by DR1665

Originally posted by freelancefool The hardest part for me was getting the bolts out of the side motor mount.

Amen to that. IMO... 1. Take all (3) bolts holding that bracket to the block as far out as you can get them. 2. Drop the engine as low as you can get it. "Pump" downwards on it with your right hand and reach under the wheel well with your left to pull the lower bolt out. 3. Jack the engine up as high as you can get it and pull the top bolt out. 4. Look/feel around the hard vac lines that run along the fender well, there, for the recess. Use a screwdriver to gently pry those lines upwards at the top of the strut tower area. Then slowly lower the engine until the remaining bolt will slip between the vac lines into that recess, allowing you to rotate the bracket with it for removal. 5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it.

I'm gonna have to find that recess for the middle bolt and push on the engine to get that bottom bolt. I already got the top bolt out from jacking the engine up before I had to stop. Thanks for the tips guys

Originally posted by DR1665
5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it.

I would if I wasn't afraid of losing it LOL. So far I've been very diligent bagging parts and labeling them so I know what goes where when it's time to put everything back together. I just wish I had a garage to work in so I could do this at night. I'm very limited with the amount of daytime I have to work right now.

Originally posted by freelancefool
I didn't have to pry the vacuum lines apart. I just pulled the bolt out, jacked up a little and slid the bolt out a little bit more.

btw I ended up getting one of those vac lines pinched a bit in the same altercation that dented the oil pan (oh and my downpipe) Anyways hopefully there's no leak it didn't pinch it shut so as long as it didn't get punctured it should be fine

Originally posted by freelancefool
The hardest part for me was getting the bolts out of the side motor mount.

Funny thing is, once you do a few, it's actually fairly easy. It IS kind of a rubics cude to get it out of there. Just kinda wiggle it in the right direction and angle and she'll come out.

GL

Originally posted by freelancefool
It's not as bad as it looks. The hardest part for me was getting the bolts out of the side motor mount.

the next hardest being getting them back in! :7

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G

Originally posted by freelancefool It's not as bad as it looks. The hardest part for me was getting the bolts out of the side motor mount.

the next hardest being getting them back in! :7

yeah I'm not looking forward to that since I finally got them out. It definetly took a while. I ended up having to stop b/c it was so frustrating. I unbolted the turbo and manifold while cooling off from the bracket fighting me. Also took off the compressor housing to polish up while everythings apart I might as well clean some stuff up. Next up remove the tensioner and belt and then start unplugging/unbolting stuff attached to the head :)

edit: BANME!ish question the rubber gasket between the motor mount bracket and the timing cover.... yeah I kinda ripped that in a couple pieces and am guessing I'll need a new one. Does it have a name so I can order it easier or do I just describe what it is?

I am going to have to do this in a month or so due to mine leaking pretty badly in the back right corner. What gasket did you go with, and are you removing the cam gears? If yes, what way are/ did you get them off (the tool or the pliers)?

Originally posted by spartan
I am going to have to do this in a month or so due to mine leaking pretty badly in the back right corner. What gasket did you go with, and are you removing the cam gears? If yes, what way are/ did you get them off (the tool or the pliers)?

I purchased an oem gasket from mitsubhishiparts.com And yes everything I've read says you have to remove the cam gears. I've seen people use giant channel locks to hold the cam gear in place while unbolting and I've also heard of tying the cams together with wire (i'll probably go this route) Or you can get the real tool. Oh yeah and I think you can make something similar to the tool with a block of wood and a couple nails/screws (I may also do this)

Originally posted by spartan
and are you removing the cam gears? If yes, what way are/ did you get them off (the tool or the pliers)?

I would say that the safest way to remove the cam gears is to find the hole in the camshaft that the "special tool" goes into. It is toward the cam gear end of the shaft. Use/buy/steal a 1/4" socket extension to stick into that hole to use as leverage while removing the cam gear bolts. I say it's the safe way because the shafts are stronger than the gears.

Originally posted by DirtMegirt

Originally posted by spartan and are you removing the cam gears? If yes, what way are/ did you get them off (the tool or the pliers)?

I would say that the safest way to remove the cam gears is to find the hole in the camshaft that the "special tool" goes into. It is toward the cam gear end of the shaft. Use/buy/steal a 1/4" socket extension to stick into that hole to use as leverage while removing the cam gear bolts. I say it's the safe way because the shafts are stronger than the gears.

Break them lose the the timing belt still on or get a screwdriver that has the 1/4" end on it from a craftsman socket set or any brand and put in the holes in the top of your cams.

I haven't changed the eclipse yet, but I've changed a lot of neons!!

Originally posted by jshillin
Break them lose the the timing belt still on or get a screwdriver that has the 1/4" end on it from a craftsman socket set or any brand and put in the holes in the top of your cams. I haven't changed the eclipse yet, but I've changed a lot of neons!!

I loosened them with the timing belt still on. Worked out well. I tied them together with some wire but figured I would loosen them before removing the belt this way incase there was some slack in the wire I wouldn't mess anything up.

Anyways I made a whole bunch of progress today even though I only had a few hours. All I have left to do as far as tear down goes is remove the cam seals, pull the valve cover, remove the cams and unbolt the head :D Nothing is left attached to the head/intake manifold :) Time to do a little searching on torque specs for the MLS HG and the arp head studs.

Oh loosening them with the belt still on... now that is a good idea. I will definitely try that option. I am going to start ordering parts for my change this week. Glad to hear it isn't giving you too many problems.

Originally posted by spartan
Oh loosening them with the belt still on... now that is a good idea.

It worked out nicely. I may get flamed for this, but since the wire was still a bit loose and the cam gears had a little play I also used a pair of channel locks to grab the inside of the gears together and hold them in place while I loosened the nuts. I only did this though b/c I did not loosen them enough before removing the timing belt.

Yeah so this thing was in the package with my OEM MLS HG. But there's no mention of what it is in the instructions that came with the package and well I'm just curious. Anyone have any idea? I don't even know how to search to find out what this thing is LOL

Throughout tearing down and building up several 420As, I've never seen that gasket. A lot of times gasket manufacturers just add extra gaskets to call it a complete "kit" for more than one application. I was just looking at a complete gasket kit that came with something like six different intake manifold gaskets.


-http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

Originally posted by VelocitaPaola
Throughout tearing down and building up several 420As, I've never seen that gasket. A lot of times gasket manufacturers just add extra gaskets to call it a complete "kit" for more than one application. I was just looking at a complete gasket kit that came with something like six different intake manifold gaskets.

Thanks Paul, I didn't think it was anything I was going to need but I just wanted to be sure especially since I had never seen/heard mention of it and it also wasn't mentioned in the paper that it was wrapped in when I opened up the HG.

The camshaft position sensor doesn't have ridges on it like that.





-http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

For comforts sake (or just so we're all in the same boat), don't bother with re-torquing. Not necessary, IMO.

Originally posted by cs82685
Yeah so this thing was in the package with my OEM MLS HG. But there's no mention of what it is in the instructions that came with the package and well I'm just curious. Anyone have any idea? I don't even know how to search to find out what this thing is LOL

O-Ring for the Cam Angle Sensor.

Originally posted by cs82685
Time to do a little searching on torque specs for the MLS HG and the arp head studs.

Just having done this job only a few months back, this is where I found alot of differing opinions. Some say torque the studs down, run engine through a few heat cycles, and re-torque. I believe that Matt(XtremeRS) torqued his down to @70 ft.lbs. and just left them , and has posted that they have been fine ever since. I think that the recommended torque from ARP is 85 ft. lbs. I have read on these forums anywhere from 65 on up to 100 with no issues. What I did was picked a number(78 ft. lbs.), torqued them, and left them. So far I have had no issues. I read nothing in the ARP documentation that mentioned the re-torque being necessary, that is why I didn't do it.

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
O-Ring for the Cam Angle Sensor.

So it is something, thanks Mike

Originally posted by DirtMegirt

Originally posted by cs82685 Time to do a little searching on torque specs for the MLS HG and the arp head studs.

this is where I found alot of differing opinions.

Yeah I found this out. I figure I'm going to go with Dino's recommendation of 90ft/lbs since he's pretty much the man when it comes to these cars.

Originally posted by cs82685

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST O-Ring for the Cam Angle Sensor.

So it is something, thanks Mike

Newbie...lol

Originally posted by DirtMegirt

Originally posted by spartan and are you removing the cam gears? If yes, what way are/ did you get them off (the tool or the pliers)?

I would say that the safest way to remove the cam gears is to find the hole in the camshaft that the "special tool" goes into. It is toward the cam gear end of the shaft. Use/buy/steal a 1/4" socket extension to stick into that hole

This sounds like a great idea, I'll do this the next time. I haven't seen that hole before - is it only exposed when you remove the valve cover?

Originally posted by ez

Originally posted by DirtMegirt

Originally posted by spartan and are you removing the cam gears? If yes, what way are/ did you get them off (the tool or the pliers)?

I would say that the safest way to remove the cam gears is to find the hole in the camshaft that the "special tool" goes into. It is toward the cam gear end of the shaft. Use/buy/steal a 1/4" socket extension to stick into that hole

This sounds like a great idea, I'll do this the next time. I haven't seen that hole before - is it only exposed when you remove the valve cover?

Yep, the holes are between one of the journals and lobes. You'll see it once you take the valve cover off.


-http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

Success:





Failure:





Looks like it was the cam seal on the intake cam that was leaking not the HG, that explains a few things, like no mixing of oil/coolant, and oil being here above where the head and block meet but with no signs of a leaking vc gasket...




Anyways since it was just a few more bolts, I decided I'd still take the head off and replace the HG and put in my ARP studs. I'll get to that part tomorrow.

Awesome that it isn't as bad as you thought it was. I actually have another set of cam seals and cam angle sensor seal in the center console in my car. I'm not sure why I put them there.

Simple verification needed :)

THis little gap circled is supposed to be here correct?





From the picture below, it looks like the answer is yes, I just want to be sure before going and putting everything back together.

Originally posted by cs82685
Simple verification needed :) THis little gap circled is supposed to be here correct? From the picture below, it looks like the answer is yes, I just want to be sure before going and putting everything back together.

Yes sir it is okay.

Originally posted by cs82685
Success:

Wow. That looks kind of intimidating. I think I would get that far and then shit my pants when I realize that I have to put it all back together.

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
Yes sir it is okay.

Thank you sir

Originally posted by DanKid

Originally posted by cs82685 Success:

Wow. That looks kind of intimidating. I think I would get that far and then shit my pants when I realize that I have to put it all back together.

Haha, it's not too bad actually. I was very diligent with labeling almost everything so it won't be a mystery of what bolts go where as I put it back together. Most of it is really just unbolting stuff and much easier than you would think. SOme of it is a pain in the ass, but it's not a hard concept to grasp. Although I let you know the truth over the next couple days once I begin getting it all back together. I just dropped the head back on today but that's it, didn't have time to reinstall the cams or anything yet.

Bravo on the work.

I attempted to change my HG and re-ring the pistons while I was at it. Quickly got discouraged with lack of time in between work and gave it to the shop.

Well things had been going smoothly this morning. But now, as I go to torque the bolt on the intake cam gear I realize the torque wrench I have is too big so there's not enough clearance :cry :bash. OH and I may have stripped out one of the holes for the cam angle sensor ;( Sonofabitch. Time to work on some other parts before going back to the problems and finding another torque wrench.

I use a 6-sided wrench and a hammer. Some blue loctite can't hurt, either.

Originally posted by DarkOne
I use a 6-sided wrench and a hammer. Some blue loctite can't hurt, either.

You mean for the cam gear bolts?

I was also considering not tightening it completely until I have the timing belt on this way it won't matter much if it moves anywhere

Stripped out the bottom bolt hole for the hydraulic tensioner. WOOOHOOO!!! :bash :bash :bash :bash :bash :bash :bash :bash :censored

At least it's starting to look like a working engine again, virtually everything else is put back together. Hopefully I can finish over the weekend, I can't wait to start this car back up and drive it.

Originally posted by cs82685
Stripped out the bottom bolt hole for the hydraulic tensioner.

Are you using gorilla strength on your car or somethign? you shouldn't be having to tighten bolts down hard enough to strip them out. There are torque values for each bolt in the FSM if you have a torque wrench.

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by cs82685 Stripped out the bottom bolt hole for the hydraulic tensioner.

Are you using gorilla strength on your car or somethign? you shouldn't be having to tighten bolts down hard enough to strip them out. There are torque values for each bolt in the FSM if you have a torque wrench.

actually I only stripped out the first few threads. I loosely bolted it in place so it could move side to side. Put the timing belt on then used a screw driver to push the tensioner up against the tensioner pulley so I could tighten the tensioner in place and remove the pin from the tensioner. But, like an idiot, I pushed up on the tensioner from the back of it and the force pushed the tensioner up (like I wanted it to) and out just ripping the bottom bolt and about two threads out. What can I say I'm a n.0.o.B :wallbash

Some of this info needs to be wikified. I found the info about the cam angle sensor failure that can mimic a blow HG without the common symptoms usefull. I hope thats what my problem is.

DOH!!! oh well, at least it is an easy fix. I hope you get that thing up and running soon. Good job :thumbsup

Originally posted by Murfsmaster
I hope you get that thing up and running soon.

Me too

Well it's been a few days and I haven't had as much time as I would have liked to have, but here's where I'm currently at with a little help from MB.

What's Done
Timing belt installed
Motor mount bracket back on (Much easier than getting it off)
Power steering pump and bracket back on
Compressor housing of turbo back on as well as intercooler piping

What's Left
Install crank pulley (going to get a nice long bolt for it now)
Install alt. and acc. belt
Reinstall wb02 for tuning
Install front and passenger side motor mounts
Plug in my vac lines and top off my coolant
Pray as I turn the key and hope to prove myself successful.

If all goes well I'm hoping to start 'er up late tomorrow morning.

Then if everything runs right I'll change the oil get my a/f's dialed in a bit and hopefully find some time to take it to the track over the next couple weeks :)

All I have to say is finding a bolt 1" longer than the stock crank pulley bolt is proving to be very hard. :( Looks like I'm gonna have to hit up homo depot and lowes to try and find it. Either that or I'm gonna have to heat the pulley up and hope it slides on nicely.

I bought a 4' section of M12x1.5 threaded rod and a nut to fit it. Worked okay once the pulley was heated up.

Originally posted by DarkOne
I bought a 4' section of M12x1.5 threaded rod and a nut to fit it. Worked okay once the pulley was heated up.

You mean M12x1.75? That's what it appears to be and I actually found a thread that said it is in fact 1.75 not 1.5. But buying threaded rod is definetly an idea. Hopefully I can get this fricken thing on and be done with this tomorrow or thursday

Originally posted by cs82685

Originally posted by DarkOne I bought a 4' section of M12x1.5 threaded rod and a nut to fit it. Worked okay once the pulley was heated up.

You mean M12x1.75? That's what it appears to be and I actually found a thread that said it is in fact 1.75 not 1.5. But buying threaded rod is definetly an idea. Hopefully I can get this fricken thing on and be done with this tomorrow or thursday

Yeah. I was just guessing, I didn't look up the thread pitch... but the threaded rod trick worked. Just be careful, the rod isn't a strong as a Grade 8 bolt.

I hate to recommend it because people do goofy things, but I do heat up the stock pulleys at 225 for about 10 minutes. Much easier start and push.

I got my bolt at the Homo.

Finding this fucker is proving to be hard. 2 auto parts stores, 1 small hardware store, 1 home depot, 1 lowes, and nothing yet :(

I think I'll try heating the pulley up in the morning and see if I can get it on, if I can't get it on then, I'll be back on the hunt for one of these damn bolts.

If you put the pulley on and lightly tap it with a small hammer you can get the pulley far enough on so that you can tighten it down with the stock crank bolt.

Originally posted by freelancefool
If you put the pulley on and lightly tap it with a small hammer you can get the pulley far enough on so that you can tighten it down with the stock crank bolt.

Just be careful doing that. I pulled two threads out of the crank like that. Bad mojo.

Well Murfmaster put a bolt in the mail for me this morning to get the crank pulley on. (I will be making a small donation to the site in his name shortly) Anyways my plan last night was to wake up this morning and try one more time to get the pulley on enough to use the stock bolt.

I was then awoken by a call at 3am to inform me the garage at my fiance's house was up in flames and in the process of burning to the ground. I bolted there, fortunately everyone was ok, but they lost a lot of tools/equipment as they own a farm and quite a bit was in there (2 quads, a few dirt bikes, an almost brand new very expensive lawn mower, the list goes on).

Anyways I digress, at this point I had no plans whatsoever to do anything to the car today. When I stumbled home after dinner, I showed my father how the crank pulley had to go on b/c he was a bit confused when I tried to explain it to him. Well he wasn't as apprehensive about me as tapping it on, so he went ahead and tried. He got the pulley on a good ways so we tightened the bolt down and I wrapped up a couple other loose ends (oil return, radiator hose, etc.) Well it started getting dark and I just wanted to see how she ran, so without the alternator and acc. belt on I decided I'd start her just for a few seconds. Got in, turned the key, cranked for a few seconds and didn't start. I thought "oh fug" Got out of the car trying to see if I forgot to plug in any sensors and remembered not hearing the fuel pump prime. Got back in, turned the key to on made sure the pump primed the turned the key and she fired right up. Sounded good too. I think the lopey idle is gone but didn't let it warm up since the alternator isn't hooked up so I can't be sure until I finish everything up. I plan on putting the remainder of the pieces on saturday or sunday morning as now I have to go do a shit ton of HW due over the next two days.


Cliffs:
Was gonna try to get the crank pulley on this morning
Fiance's garage burned to the ground so I spent the day there
Father decided to have a go at the pulley and got it on enough to use the stock bolt
Murfmaster sent me a bolt to use out of his own pocket :thumbsup
Car started up and sounded good :D

Glad to see your car is coming along really well..

Also good to see your not skared to jump right into a big project.

Proud Owner of a few Check Engine Lights...I mean eclipses.

1997 Eclipse Gs Heavy mods
1998 Eclipse Rs Daily driver
1995 Talon ESI ( Doesn't run )
1997 Eclipse GS ( Doesn't run )

glad to see you got it on :thumbsup

If i remember correctly, i just used a number of washers, and as it got further on i removed more and more of the washers....... or perhaps that was when i did something else.... i forget but its an idea lol.

Anyways, good job man im glad everything is going well so far.

Edit: Or did i ADD washers? Does anyone know what i did? I think i was pretty drunk by that point.

howd you get the crank pulley off i cant get it off to save my life.i've tried heating it up, i have the prong tool, but it won't budge

Originally posted by denialchild45
howd you get the crank pulley off i cant get it off to save my life.i've tried heating it up, i have the prong tool, but it won't budge

5 ton 3 jaw puller. You should be able to rent one at your local parts store. It's specifically for chrysler applications when you ask. I've actually gotta go rent it again since either I've got shit luck or I messed up on the reinstall or both.

yea that pulley is a pain in the A$$. pulling it off for me wasn't that bad due to the three jaw puller. putting it on was another story. tools i had to do it were a 36" 2x4 5lb. sledge hammer, butane torch, rubber mallet. lol so much fun. then after a month and a half of doin the head gasket the compression of #2 went to crap and the car wouldn't idle. had to let her go after that incident.

Originally posted by ronjeremy525
yea that pulley is a pain in the A$$. pulling it off for me wasn't that bad due to the three jaw puller. putting it on was another story. tools i had to do it were a 36" 2x4 5lb. sledge hammer, butane torch, rubber mallet. lol so much fun. then after a month and a half of doin the head gasket the compression of #2 went to crap and the car wouldn't idle. had to let her go after that incident.

haha I tried all sorts of things to get it on far enough to use the stock bolt to pull it on the rest of the way and couldn't do it. A socket a hammer and 5 minutes and my father had it on :bowdown I was too nervous to do it that way for fear of messing up the end of the crank, he obviously didn't give a crap b/c he doesn't like the car anyways LOL