Hey guys, well I have a BIG problem right now...was going down the road today, missed 2nd (stupid ass me). Well I took it to my mechanic and he played with the throttle body and heard it. He said I threw a rod bearing and that I need to replace the rods, rods bearings, crankshaft, pistons and some other shit that I cannot remember right now. Anybody know of any places i could get cheap parts for this rebuild process? I plan to just rebuild the thing now with performance internals now so I don't have to worry about doing it later on. Obviously we have to tear the motor out and open it up and look inside it to see exactly what is wrong and if it isn't too bad I'll buy parts, but if it is beyond hope then I'm thinking about dropping a used junkyard motor in there. Eight now I've run into a huge bind and I'm in over my head, so if anyone has any good advice on what to do, hit me with it. Thanks in advance. It is much appreciated.

-Ben

beat your mechanic!
if you really did torch a bearing you should only have to regrind the crank and replace the bearings.
the chances you torched the pistons and rods are slim
and they can regrind the rods too and get bearings to fit them if there scared.

i seriously doubt that you can tell the entire rotating assy. needs replacing by listning to the TB

Thanks for the info. I'm hoping that is all that needs done. How much will this run me saying my gearhead friends and I tear the thing apart and replace the bearings, but have a shop regrind my crank? Will I have to take out my pistons to get the the rod bearings or no...and if I do will I have to bore my cylinders once they are out? Also, the TB play was only to hear it while revving the engine. It sounds like a loud ticking noise as something inside (I'm assuming the rod...but I don't know much about this stuff lol) hitting against the cylinder walls. Is is possible that I might have thrown more than one bearing or maybe a rod itself? Nothing can be sure what happened except educated guesses without tearing the engine apart. My buddy and I plan to do the disassembling either this weekend or next, and from there will decide exactly what is wrong. I"ll let you know once that is done as to what is the problem. We are just throwing ideas up in the air as of now. Thanks again! :)

Originally posted by KnightHawk434th
Anybody know of any places i could get cheap parts for this rebuild process? I plan to just rebuild the thing now with performance internals now so I don't have to worry about doing it later on.

3 things
1 first there are no cheap performance parts hence the performance part of the name.
2 get a new wrench monkey something may very well be fu@ked on your car but he just quoted you what it will cost to send his kid to college
3 use the search lots of info here and after what 5or6 years this site has been up you are not the first person to want to put performance parts in there ride. so try searching then if you dont find the answer ask away.

The crank is not always salvageable nor is the rod on which ever the bearing spins on. In my case when my bearing spun, the scoring was so bad that it was beyond repair...and I had to buy a brand new crankshaft.

Ben if you've got some time this week give me a call and I can come and take a look at it and see whats up.

In the meantime, hit up that search function. Search 'spun bearing'

Hey well here is an update on my situation. Aaron came over today and helped me finish off dropping my oil pan, and while we were at that part of my block, looked at the rod bearings, rods and crank. At first nothing was found (that was looking at Cyl 1) but when we pulled the rod cap off Cyl 4...we found that as the problem. There were two sets of grooves in the bearings off cyl 4...one large on and one small one.


Then Aaron had to split so as soon as he left I proceeded to remove the other three caps and bearings and found out cyl 1 & 2 were fine, but cyl 3 was skirted at one end of each bearing. And not only was it skirted, but the bearings wouldn't even fit snuggly in the cap like the others...they were too small.


I was looking at the bottom rod holes and cylinder 3 and 4 looked severely oblonged but cyl 1 and 2 were slightly oblonged.






If anyone needs me to take clearer pictures I can mess with my camera settings a lil to get some, but hopefully these are enough to tell. Could I be lucky and get away with replacing just the bearings, are the rods salvageable or should I drop it all and have the crank re machined and replace the rods as well. Also, what is the easiest way to remove the bed plate and crank from the bottom of the engine without having to pull the block. I have no cherry picker and my car is up on jack stands, so I'm trying to do as much in my backyard as I can. Thanks for any help I can receive. :)

-Ben

(Cas asked me to take a look at your post. Just so we know, I am answering on Casbon's request. I was not happy with the way you entered the site. Just want that out there up front. Here's hoping there's a mutual respect to be built up)

Sorry man, not any great news here. I have on multiple occasions, throughout the years, just changed out rod bearings and gotten away with it. There are specific situations where that can be done. In reading your bearings and crank, this is NOT one of those situations. Those bearings are too ugly and mashed. Sorry, IMO, those rod journals will need to see some cutting. The crank will have to come out. No way around it. As for the rods, it's hard to say without actually measuring to see if they are out of round. There is a possibility that they are OK. The fact that the bearings are "skirted" and smaller does not bode well. Gotta check.

Can you "reuse" the rings? The short answer is yes (Same piston, same cylinder etc.). But at that point, with the miles on the engine, why would you want to? Your call.

I know of no way to pull the crank without pulling the engine (unless, of course, you pulled the tranny while floating the engine......lol)

For inexpensive, good quality parts, (with quick shipping) use partsdinosaur.com. He is highly recommended and I have used him many, many times.

Damn, sorry man, I just reread the post and not a lot of positive in it. Good luck.

edit: just thought of the jack stands process. Easier to pull the head etc. off, then drop the block onto a piece of ply (with a jack obviously) and slide her out laying down on the her side. Be sure to pull the pulleys/timing components first for "wiggle room".

First off...bullet...I thank you for your time to take a look and help me out. I'll PM you regarding the issue of my entrance soon.

Next...I appreciate your insight. So that brings another question. I don't have a hoist, but I'm pretty sure I MIGHT be able to get one to use. May have to have my car lowered off the stands, then towed to a buddy of mine's uncle's shop, and use a bay there if allowed. But in case that isn't a possibility, I should be able to possibly get a hold of a hoist from somewhere. What would be the easiest way to drop the engine out the bottom? Or would you suggest since I'll have a hoist to pull it out the top? Looks like my car will be sitting for another month either way i dish it. That could be good (more time to gather money for parts) and that could be bad (less time that I have to work with before I go away in the fall to college). Any other opinions/helpful insight would be great. Thanks again.

-Ben

I kinda had the same feeling as what Mark was describing Ben. The motor's going to have to come out now...sucks but thats the process to getting things fixed and back on the road. I'd suggest trying to find a hoist or if you can get it into your buddy's uncles shop that would be great too. I've never dropped an engine from the bottom, nor would I want to try it that way...just seems a lot more complicated that way.

If the motors going to be outta the car, I would extremely suggest fixing the following along with the rotating assembly.

1. Have the block hot tanked or cleaned up best as possible.
2. Have the cylinders honed if none of them are gouged up bad, otherwise you're looking at .020 overbore.
3. Re-ring the pistons
4. Replace entire timing components. Tensioner, pulleys, belt.

I know it's more money, but it's going to keep your car on the road longer if you take care of these things now while you've got the perfect opportunity to do so. It would suck to have to take the motor apart again or the thing get FUBAR'D from a snapped timing belt or failing timing component.

Look at it this way...these are the beginning steps to learning a hell of a lot about your car and setting a better knowledge base to diagnose and fix things. Same thing happened to me and now I know what I never would have if I wouldn't have decided to fix it. :)

And, for the record, this didn't happen as a result of a missed shift. Lack of oil or lack of oil pressure does this, nothing else.

Hey so at this point I'm probably looking at getting a used engine as my best and cheapest alternative to getting it up and running shortly right? I mean if I'm gonna be spending close to $500 in parts for this beast, then I might as well pick up a used 420A that RUNS (lol) from a bone yard for right around $300 or less and keep my current block and do a performance rebuild piece by piece. Then when it is ready I could pull the other motor and put the performance motor in. But at least by doing things this way I'll have a car that runs for now. This sound like a good idea?

-Ben

Originally posted by KnightHawk434th
This sound like a good idea? -Ben

Yeah, that's a pretty good strategy (provided the used engine is good enough to run :thumbsup). Leaves you time to "take your time".

Also, I just did the drop it out of the car method 2 days ago. Had already pulled the head and sent it in to the machinist. I didn't have room to pull the hoist up to the car in the garage (too many engines in the way, lol). No real drama/problem. Plenty of room and the drop is no problem. Just an FYI.

Originally posted by KnightHawk434th
Hey so at this point I'm probably looking at getting a used engine as my best and cheapest alternative to getting it up and running shortly right? I mean if I'm gonna be spending close to $500 in parts for this beast, then I might as well pick up a used 420A that RUNS (lol) from a bone yard for right around $300 or less and keep my current block and do a performance rebuild piece by piece. Then when it is ready I could pull the other motor and put the performance motor in. But at least by doing things this way I'll have a car that runs for now. This sound like a good idea? -Ben

that's what I'm doing :7

I was lucky enough to acquire a 2-Ton cherry picker from a local wrench monkey here in town. I got a buddy of mine coming over to help me pull my engine Saturday afternoon so I can get the engine pulled and set in my garage for rebuild. I been searching for a used 420A and I'm having one hell of a time finding one, so unless my block is pretty much toast, I'll be switching my plans once again and going to rebuild it. Depending on how much cash flow I can get I'll decide stock or performance...but I'm probably going to go stock for now at least. Just an update on my situation...will keep everyone posted.

Since this is the first BIG project besides installing mirrors, wiring/mounting underglow or changing the oil that I have attempted, any help along the way would be great. Hopefully I can learn a good deal about my block in this project by expanding my knowledge about my car and possibly help fellow 2GNTs later on down the road.

-Ben

Nice score on the cherry picker. I got you covered on any questions you might have about pulling the engine or anything along the way you need. You know my number, don't hesitate to drop me a line if you need some help or have a question about something.

i am sorry to hear about your issue's but i may be able to help

I am in the process of pulling my old 420a for a performance motor, the old 420a runs, the 4th cylinder is knocking, but the motor should last while you rebuild your old one

if you are interested let me know your location, i am in NJ

Thanks to everyone for all their help and insight with my current problem. You guys are all great, and Aaron...I owe it to you the most for all your help both on here and especially the help provided by stopping by my house when you can. I'll try and keep everyone updated as my project rolls along. This is why the site is so great!...just wish I could have made a better first impression. :(

Eclipsegs96, I sent you a PM, so whenever you get a chance, go ahead and hit me back. Thanks

-Ben

Well here is an update on my situation...after a day and a half and help from Aaron and some buddies of mine here in town, I finally got my engine pulled from my car. We got the cams/gears pulled, the rocker arms pulled, the bearing caps pulled and 9 out of 10 head studs pulled. We found that the very last one is slightly stripped on the top of the bolt head so I need to go to sears to find a tool for it, and then I just need to remove the bolts from my intake manifold and I can have my head off and get to the rest of the block. Was tough work and about $100 in tools (sockets, 3-Jaw, harmonic balancer, rachets), but by pulling everything and getting to look at it first hand I'm beginning to acquire knowledge of how stuff works and starting to learn a little more about my engine and my car in general. Will probably be finishing removing the head and such this week and/or next weekend. Hopefully I now have all the tools I need to tear apart the rest of the engine.