I found the 1G FAQ at

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/headstuds.html

But cannot find a 2GNT ARP FAQ. I searched but couldn't find anything.

Is it the same?

Thanks for any help.

Edit:

I found this thread:

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=set_threaded_mode&forum=8&page=&topic_id=64941&prev_page=show_mesg

Is this the most current/best info for pushing 15-20lbs with a built motor?

Sorry for being a post hore. I know it isn't tolerated on this board but I only want to tear this engine down once this month.

I just got off the phone with Al at ARP and he says that they should be torqued to 70 lbs if using arp lube and 85 lbs if using 30 weight.

Why is there so much of a difference in suggestions?

The socket used is a 9/16 deep well 12 point.

Nvm..

Never mind.

I found this thread which is exactly what is happening to me:

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=103066&mesg_id=103066&page=&topic_page=1

Moderators can delete this thread please.

Originally posted by mreigle
Never mind. I found this thread which is exactly what is happening to me: http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=5&topic_id=103066&mesg_id=103066&page=&topic_page=1 Moderators can delete this thread please.

Glad to see the search worked well for you. Good luck.

Are you referring to the use of the moly lubricant and the 30w motor oil or the 70ft lbs recommended by ARP and the 90 ft lbs recommended by the 2gnt'ers?

The moly lubricant supplied is the best thing to use because when used properly the friction is reduced less then that if 30w motor oil was used, thus the need for less torque.
Directly from ARP's Website;
"when installing a new bolt where the stretch method cannot be used, the bolt should be tightened and loosened several times before final torque. The number of cycles depends on the lubricant. For ARP recommended lubes, five loosening and tightening cycles is sufficient"

more info can be found here http://www.arp-bolts.com/Tech/Tech.html

And as for the increased torque recommendation by the 2gnt'ers i don't know the exact reason, however i can guess and correct me if I am wrong, but the arp torque numbers are really for a NA motor if you turbocharge the motor the pressure in the cylinder is higher and a greater clamping load is needed to prevent head-gasket failure. Right now my head is off because of Head-gasket failure and i torqued the arp head studs to their recommended value so i might consider increasing the torque this time around (any suggestions?)

Originally posted by Quadman313
Right now my head is off because of Head-gasket failure and i torqued the arp head studs to their recommended value so i might consider increasing the torque this time around (any suggestions?)

Try it and see what happens. You know what happened from using the lower spec.


http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1185

Originally posted by xcasbonx

Originally posted by Quadman313 Right now my head is off because of Head-gasket failure and i torqued the arp head studs to their recommended value so i might consider increasing the torque this time around (any suggestions?)

Try it and see what happens. You know what happened from using the lower spec. http://www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=1185

It's pretty common to torque them to 80-100 ft lbs. I've torqued them to over 100 ft. lbs. before and never broke one.

Just an FYI for everyone here. There used to be a 2GNT ARP FAQ on the main site. I don't see it there any more, but you can still link to it.

Anyways... the old 2GNT ARP FAQ lists individual part numbers to piece together a head stud kit for the 420A, but the studs are 7/16"-20 thread and undercut to 3/8". The new ARP kit for the 420A uses 7/16"-20 threads and is NOT undercut... the entire stud is 7/16".

Just thought I'd post it up since I just found out myself.

I did search for ARP FAQ and nothing came up.

Thanks again for the help.

ARP suggested 85 LBS using 30 weight or 70 lbs using ARP lube. Al said that this is 80% of the strength of the stude. He said the aluminum head will expand when heated and you will need to other 20% for this expansion.

The problem is that I did this last time and still have problems under boost.

Any input from the 420a God Terry?

Originally posted by mreigle
The problem is that I did this last time and still have problems under boost.

If you torqued to 70 ft lbs in the proper sequence and still had a failure, then the failure was not caused by insufficient torque applied.

How about more details. What type of headgasket did you use? Did you use any copper gasket spray? Were the block/head mating surfaces perfectly flat? What finish did the mating surfaces have? Where did the gasket fail? Pics? Any cooling system problems? Any ignition issues? How much boost?

Could be anything

Originally posted by dougie2

Originally posted by mreigle The problem is that I did this last time and still have problems under boost.

If you torqued to 70 ft lbs in the proper sequence and still had a failure, then the failure was not caused by insufficient torque applied. How about more details. What type of headgasket did you use? Did you use any copper gasket spray? Were the block/head mating surfaces perfectly flat? What finish did the mating surfaces have? Where did the gasket fail? Pics? Any cooling system problems? Any ignition issues? How much boost? Could be anything

What type of headgasket did you use?
Cometic

Did you use any copper gasket spray?
I paid someone else to do it the first time so I don't know. That is why I am doing it myself this time so that I can make sure it is done right.

Were the block/head mating surfaces perfectly flat? Yes, the head was decked and the block was good.

What finish did the mating surfaces have?
I don't know

Where did the gasket fail?
I have yet to take it out. I just got a harmonic balancer removal tool this morning to get the underdrive pulley off.

Pics?
I will post if you like when I get it off.

Any cooling system problems?
The reason I am replacing it is becaue it is pushing coolant.

Any ignition issues?
None

How much boost?
5 lbs

The car is running mega rich becuase I still don't have my MS working. It is back at RS-motorsport for another diagnostics. It keeps shutting off when you plug in th serial.

ive re-used my arp head studs like 5 times now, and everytime, i use no oil or anything, and torque them to around 100ft lbs. i never blown a head gasket. but killed everything else.

Originally posted by mreigle
The problem is that I did this last time and still have problems under boost.

I'm lost, whats the problem again?
Head-gasket failure?
Broke Head stud?

Oh and Doug its not that I do not want to torque the head studs down to 100 ft lbs its just that I am afraid if I do that, I might compromise the integrity of the threads in the block or on the stud, neck the stud, or any of the other myriad of possible failures. I realize that these studs are extremely durable and the tensile strength is high but you can still possibly stretch the stud too far. However, if you said you had no problem I guess I can try torquing them down to about 90 ft lbs in 3-4 steps.

Edit: I just talked to one ARP's tech people and I explained the situation and the fact that the car is now turbocharged and they said that it is nessary to cycle the bolts 5 times (meaning torque to 65 ft lbs using moly lube only for the first time installed or do it if you havent done this). Then warm the engine and re-torque the studs again. I asked them about increasing the torque becasue the engine is turbocharged and they said it would not be a good idea to do so. So now im at a loss of what to torque these studs to 65-70 with moly or 90 ft. lbs. with moly?

I use ARP Moly lube and always torque to 90ft/lbs. I've never blown a headgasket doing this, either. I destroyed the pistons first. :)

I've also never lost threads in the block from it, either.

Originally posted by DarkOne
I use ARP Moly lube and always torque to 90ft/lbs. I've never blown a headgasket doing this, either. I destroyed the pistons first. :) I've also never lost threads in the block from it, either.

Well WTF I guess I will give it a shot then. How many steps did you use 3-5?

Originally posted by Quadman313
How many steps did you use 3-5?

Usually 4. 30->60->90->90.

Thanks

I will use the same advice.

Thank you very much.

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by Quadman313 How many steps did you use 3-5?

Usually 4. 30->60->90->90.

This is exactly what I do ^^^ Never cycled a stud and never blown an HG also never damaged a stud or a head. Those fuckers are tough lock and load them...

What about the ARP that come with the Eagle H beams? I can't remember what Eagle told me to torque them to when I called them. Might help out some others down the road though.

I have moved my headgasket questions to a new thread

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=4&topic_id=89338&mesg_id=89338&page=