I ordered these with the top end kit from howell, which has still not shipped and its been the 6 weeks- I know it takes a while for them to send it it just sucks waiting, I was just wondering what people thought of them that were actually running them. I have read that they are a little better than the 14s but the 14s really suck. I was also wondering around what idle people had with these and if there was any lumpyness(sp?) at idle. My vacuume now is around 18 to 20 mmHg but the motor I put the cams in has .20 over 8.8 wisecos. What is the normal idle rmp and mmHg for these.

Took me 6 months to get my cams from Howell. You will find that Crane is always backordered on cams for our cars. I ended up with Crower Stage 2's instead of Crane 16's. I am so not complaining the Crowers are so much nicer.

Do your self a favor. Call Crane and see what the deal with the 12 grinds are. Then if it's going to be a while before they will be ready, call Gary Howell and talk directly to him, see if he'll work with you to get your stuff in a more timely fashion. Gary is a great guy and their customer service is excellent. Now if only they could get their parts out in a more timely fashion I doubt anyone would have a single complaint about them.

-Kevin

Originally posted by shazow1969
Gary is a great guy................ Now if only they could get their parts out in a more timely fashion I doubt anyone would have a single complaint about them. -Kevin

Quoted for truth.

MB

How did you end up with crowers instead of cranes? Did Howell swap them for you?

I spoke with Gary and he told me that Crane was the best cam out there. Can someone tell me what to expect as far as idle with the 12s. Is it lumpy and what is the vacuume in mmHg?

I called and talked to Gary after confirming with Crane that the Cranes were still back ordered (for another 3 months past the 6 months I had already waited for them), and Calling Crower to find out that their Stage 2's were an off the shelf item at any time. Ran the Idea of Swapping the Crowers so I wouldn't have to keep waiting. Gary agreed and I had my Crowers in a little over a week.

Crane is a great cam manufacturer. My first choice was the Crane 16's but I am not going to pay for something in April and not recieve it til January. With that said the Crane 12's are not very aggressive they are a minor upgrade from the stockers and to me not any where near enough bang for the buck. I mean why pay over $400 and not get significant gains from it. You will not notice a difference in idle and you probably won't notice the difference in performance.

The crower2's are a very nice street/strip cam. The idle is not all too bad and my crowers have a peak power around 7200. Any more than that and you'll have to be adding quite a few more mods. I have had no experience with the cranes but I am very happy with the crower 2's (though I'm thinking I'm ready to move on to the crower 3's :evilgrin).

MB

I agree , the crower cams are so much nicer then the cranes , plus they ship quick, crane has to outsource all of their materials on their cams thus why it takes half a year to get a set. Ive ran both crane and crower in my 420a. The 12s idled normally for me very little change in idle tone or vaccum, the 14s were very lumpy with about 18lbs of vaccum. I honestly think my car pulled harder with stock cams then with the 14s in it. Crower had been nothing but fantastic, i was running stage 2s in my engine up until the time i grenaded the bottom end. I didnt get much time on them so i cant really say how much vaccum i was pulling from them..

From my research into cams, and much of this comes from the Neon community, where there's more of an all motor following, Crane cam profiles tend to offer a hair more duration given lift, which provides a slightly gentler ramp angle on the lobes. What does this mean? Well, a lot of the Neon guys I've spoken with say they prefer this gentler ramp angle when running more aggressive cams as insurance against broken rockers and the like.

Note: When someone in the Neon community mentions "Aggressive cams," they're usally talking about something like a Crane 22, 24 or better. Those guys are crazy and I would suggest anyone considering all motor performance make it a point to visit Neons.org at least quarterly to do some reading. I know I do. :P

Note2: Damn you, Mark, for your Crower 3 comment. Just when I start thinking about getting out the game or going back to stock, you make a comment like this and I'll be damned if I don't start thinking about how *I* want Crower 3s again... :squint

Well I checked my status today and they have shipped out. Not much I can do now with the cams other than use them, unless someone wants to trade me for some Crower 2s...didn't think so. O well.

There's not much difference at all between the crane 12's and the crower 2's (not to be confused with the crower 2 turbo, though).

Intake difference: Crower has +2 degrees duration at 0.050" lift (206 vs 204) and has only 0.025 more lift.

Exhaust difference: Crane has 0.007 more lift and the same duration, but the crower is retarded 1 degree (which can be compensated for with adjustable cam gears).

To me, that's a marginal difference to make one want to change from one to the other. Stay with the 12's, you'll be fine. When you want to upgrade, go with either the Crower 3's or Crane 18's (18's have 4 more degrees duration on exhaust side seat-to-seat, but considerably less lift).

Actual cam card specs on them.

Adv dur Dur@.050" Lift LSA

Stock 222/220 172/168 .324"/.275" ?

Crane 12 246/246 204/204 .364"/.364" 110

Crower 2 241/241 196/194 .388"/.357" 110

Now not all cams can truly be judged simply by looking at numbers on paper. Different cam profiles work differently with different setups. If I swap to the cranes listed above I'd probably actually loose performance. Split durations are good and can help performance depending on what supporting mods have been made.

-Kevin

Originally posted by shazow1969
If I swap to the cranes listed above I'd probably actually loose performance. Split durations are good and can help performance depending on what supporting mods have been made.

I think that may be true if they had similar durations, but the the crane's will allow for more flow going by the specs you posted. More air in & more air out equals more potential.

I do agree with split duration, though, I run that in my cougar. For instance, the specs I had of the crower 2 were 206/204 vs crane's 204/204. I believe you might get a little extra performance, but 2 degree's isn't much.

Where'd you get the specs from? What I got was:

206 intake & 204 exhaust, 0.389" intake lift & 0.357" exhaust lift

Despite the durations being the same on the exhaust, you could look at when each opens to determine a difference.

I got my specs off my Crower 2 Cam card. But the same info is also available on Crower's site.

-Kevin

Originally posted by shazow1969
Crower 2 241/241 196/194 .388"/.357" 110

One thing I'm confused on is how can the duration vary. Advertised duration is not split, but duration at 0.050" lift is split. I guess maybe lobe angle/shape :shrug

I thought the same thing, but that's what Crower says I'll take their word for it they know more about their cams than I do.

-Kevin