Hi guys need some feedback. We are working on some different port designs and wanted to know how you guys felt about a fully cnc ported , flow benched and dyno proven head. We were thinking about doing 2 different heads, one for the N/A guys and one for the turbo guys.. Let me know what you think, im open to all comments!

Originally posted by ConceptIllusions
Hi guys need some feedback. We are working on some different port designs and wanted to know how you guys felt about a fully cnc ported , flow benched and dyno proven head. We were thinking about doing 2 different heads, one for the N/A guys and one for the turbo guys.. Let me know what you think, im open to all comments!

would be nice but i doubt anyone is going to pay the price for all that labor.

You should see what the numbers are for a stock head as well. Then show the improvements.

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
would be nice but i doubt anyone is going to pay the price for all that labor.

It'd be more expensive to hand port one than to CNC one, and much more consistent between heads.

Go for it, but I'd want to see flow numbers stock vs. your CNC ports before I'd consider it.

What's it cost to CNC a head? $400? I second the motion for flow number comparison.

I'm with Dino on this one I need to see some flow number comparisons. Stock, v, Hand ported, v, CNC ported. Then price comparisons for all 3, with and without a core.

I paid $932 to have my head Surfaced, Milled .010",pressure tested, replace valves, seals, springs, retainers, locks, check spring seats, 3 angle VJ, full hand P&P, and some chamber work.

-Kevin

We will be posting the flow numbers once we can get a good port configuration, we are aiming for at least 60cfm over stock but not sure how close we can get to that number just yet, the cnc process costs about as much as hand porting. Well try and get some dyno number up also going from stock head to ported head with stock components installed, well also be testing crower staged cams with and without oversized valves and get flow numbers for those setups as well... keep the input coming guys!

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST would be nice but i doubt anyone is going to pay the price for all that labor.

It'd be more expensive to hand port one than to CNC one, and much more consistent between heads. Go for it, but I'd want to see flow numbers stock vs. your CNC ports before I'd consider it.

Dino, to CNC port the head you'd first need to hand port one. Then digitize it, and it can copy them all day long.

I have all the stock flowbench specs.

Originally posted by ConceptIllusions
well also be testing crower staged cams with and without oversized valves and get flow numbers for those setups as well... keep the input coming guys!

um, dude youre confusing people. First of all, you dont flowbench a cylinder head with any cams in it. Duh. The valves yes. Stock vs oversize, I have those numbers too. Its going to be different at different test pressures though, what pressure do you use?

I have all the flowbench specifications for a few different test pressures on a stock, and ported 420a cylinder head from .100 to .500 lift. If you want them, e-mail me. Sounds to me like you dont know half of what youre doing, though.

EDIT:

on a side note, id just like to mention that just because the head might flow more on a flowbench, doesnt mean it will make your car faster or add any power. Ive seen smaller ports make more power, and theres a reason for that.

Originally posted by turbo8u
Ive seen smaller ports make more power, and theres a reason for that.

Yeah, velocity, you can do that with a good port job, just need to have a good radius. Basic rule of thumb we used in the machine shop, if you stick your finger in the port and it gets your dick hard, thats a good radius.

As an example of what turby is talking about, I'll share something interesting that was discovered (by someone long ago that cared enough) about Cleveland heads. It turns out that fully porting the exhaust side of a Ford Cleveland 4V head results in significantly less flow and velocity than brazing the port half way up and then porting. Why is this? By raising the floor of the port you're introducing a smoother radius and you will have less turbulence in the flow. And when it's done properly, it'll make your dick hard.

damn what dont you know turbo8u, you da man.

Originally posted by Keith2172
Basic rule of thumb we used in the machine shop, if you stick your finger in the port and it gets your dick hard, thats a good radius.

hahaha!



no cams, its about the lift. I put on a radiused cup on the port and it didnt make a difference. This thing was LOUD.

Sorry about that! What i meant to say was once we can get a good port configuration we will test it with both stock size and oversized valves, than after thats all said and done we are going to dyno the heads with different cams installed to see what power we can gain from them..

hell yea then, thats the best thing you can do. rock on. :cheers

I have the stock flowbench numbers, and a ported head too. see if you can get some better flow than my nigga Chris (2point4) with his mad porting skills! Ill send you them if you want. He understands flow like its a 3rd nut though, so I dunno lol.

and a HUGE percentage of the gains will come from your valve job, DO NOT forget that. look for good low lift flow.

I'll tell you what, if you can market your head with detailed before and after numbers and consistently provide those numbers, the only thing you really have to worry about is getting the product out to your customers 100% ready to install and promptly. It seems as if every vendor we get in this community slips into this mindest of "Pffft. Those guys can wait." That's bullshit.

I don't say this to head this discussion in another direction, but we have too many vendors who offer quality products and services around here who simply fail to deliver on the customer service side. Simply put, if you can provide a quality product at a fair price, and you can deliver that product promptly, you will clean up around here.

That is all.

Originally posted by DR1665
I'll tell you what, if you can market your head with detailed before and after numbers and consistently provide those numbers, the only thing you really have to worry about is getting the product out to your customers 100% ready to install and promptly. It seems as if every vendor we get in this community slips into this mindest of "Pffft. Those guys can wait." That's bullshit. I don't say this to head this discussion in another direction, but we have too many vendors who offer quality products and services around here who simply fail to deliver on the customer service side. Simply put, if you can provide a quality product at a fair price, and you can deliver that product promptly, you will clean up around here. That is all.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

-Kevin

Originally posted by turbo8u
Dino, to CNC port the head you'd first need to hand port one. Then digitize it, and it can copy them all day long.

Naturally, but from there, you can replicate it indefinitely at a minimal production cost. That's the point I was trying to make, versus hand-porting every head that comes in over and over and over and over.

i was planning to move into this same venture last year when i was still working in the machinist trade. the question u have to ask yourself is... will it actually be worth it to do so? its a great idea for the performance aspect. yes, a cnc'd head should perform well as long as the "original" design isn't flawed. then, u are still dependant on the quality level of the machinist u employ to do the work for you. this will be a costly excercise when u consider labor cost, machine time, and tooling. then the only question left is, how many people will actually cough up the dough to purchase this unit. my conclusion... not many. honestly, i think it would be much more cost effective to extrude hone them and you'd get just as productive results... my 2 cents

turby - thanks for the good words my brotha! bring ur ass back to norcal so we can get the 2.5's started... jeah