Would have put this in For Sale/Wanted, but had a few questions, too.

I should start by mentioning that I'm a complete engine idiot. With all the exhaust and other easy stuff I've done, I've never had the skills to mess with the engine or time to learn about it. That said...

Got the 'ticking' sound about a week ago, and was hoping for the best, but got the worst news from Meineke today (good shop in town, really grown to trust them). I have a 99 GS w/ no custom internals or anything, and 2 days after fighting trying to diagnose this as something else, they told me spun bearing. Oil level was way down for some reason, so I suspect that could be a cause or at least part of the problem. I check it religiously, so I don't know what happened...

They told me I could just get a new bottom end, or a whole new motor, but that they suggested the later due to other internals possibly being damaged. They said a new crate 420a would run $4,800. I said you have to be kidding me...

My questions:

Does anyone know a cheaper way to get this fixed? Could just a new bottom end work?

If I need a new motor, does anyone know of a cheaper, fast way to get one here? I figured for $4,800, I could actually get something with some nicer internals, but I'm not really sure.

I really can't afford any more time or much money right now, so I know that puts me in a bind. I'm in a custody battle for my son, I work 55 hours a week, so as you can imagine, I just have no time or will to do any work on it myself right now, so I'm really at Meineke's mercy.

Anyways, I guess the real thing I'm looking for is advice here. All of 2GNT has helped me so much in the past, I thought it would be best to start here first. TIA for any advice you can give.

Feel free to email me at snuffy@snufalufagus.com, and I appreciate you guys...

Nicholas

depending on how bad the crank was damaged, you can have the crank reground and get some different sized rod bearings.

Meineke is full of shit, flat out. Have it towed to a legit garage somewhere around you and actually have the drop the oil pan and actually CHECK to see what the issue is. I spun TWO rod bearings on my car and didn't have to replace my rods OR crank. The guys at the shop just sanded the crank a little bit and put new oversized bearings on there and PRESTO! I was out of there for $400, they only had the car for 2 days, and I have now been driving on it for about 20xxx miles now with NO problems. Have it checked out first before they simply pull the entire engine, there ARE cheaper alternatives.

Also you can check ebay. They sell 420as for about a grand comparted what the shop offered (over 4grand)!!

Originally posted by clipse_2005
Meineke is full of shit, flat out. Have it towed to a legit garage somewhere around you and actually have the drop the oil pan and actually CHECK to see what the issue is. I spun TWO rod bearings on my car and didn't have to replace my rods OR crank. The guys at the shop just sanded the crank a little bit and put new oversized bearings on there and PRESTO! I was out of there for $400, they only had the car for 2 days, and I have now been driving on it for about 20xxx miles now with NO problems. Have it checked out first before they simply pull the entire engine, there ARE cheaper alternatives.

UPDATE: Yeah, they said they could grind the crank and replace the bearings, but that would cost $3,600 in labor. They said if they found a new motor for ~ $1,500, they could install it for $1,000, which would be cheapest.

There are no shops I really trust at all in the KC area, but I'll call around. Thanks guys...

$3600 in labor to grind down the crank and replace the bearings!?!?!? You NEED to look around, ask some poeple locally where they take their car and bring it somewhere else. Let meineke change oil and put mufflers on cars, leave the rest to REAL mechanics.

Wrong spot...sorry

With just a spun bearing and no other problems the parts themselves would only cost $50-100 for everything. I've replced a spun rod bearing on my Talon and also on my Tercel. The tercel worked perfectly but I had other problems I didn't see with the talon. Warped Connecting Rod and egg shaped crank journal on the same cylinder.

Go to a shop that doesn't look sketchy but also doesn't look like a corporate business. I worked for Midas for a year or so a few years back and I saw them rape people with labor/parts prices. 4800 dollars is insane to pay for a new engine w/ install. As long as you go to the right place and have them look for the right things.

Ask them to measure all your crank journals and bearing caps. If you're lucky all they might have to do is sand down the crank slightly with it still in the engine. Thats under 1000 dollars worth of work.

Good luck.

Thanks all for the advice.

The PITA of it all is that I've been calling around all day, and although I can find machine shops that could work on the parts if I bring them in, I can't find a shop that will actually pull them out, sand the crank, and replace the bearings for me. The machine shops won't touch the car, and all the auto shops just want to drop a new motor in it, or rape me on machining the crank and replacing the bearings.

If I knew what I was doing or had the time, I would bring them to a machine shop that I know does good work in town. But like I said up top, I've got a million other things going on right now, and don't have the skill to do it myself. So, I'm still pretty much SOL and JWF, but I'll keep calling around. Thanks again...

Hey, I live in KC as well. I can get your car running again for a lot cheaper than any shop, but I am pretty backed up right now. I have 4 2g Eclipses and a Talon ahead of yours (if I did it), and each car averages 3 to 4 days to get gone. If you are still needing your motor replaced in 2 weeks, I can do it for around $1375. That includes putting in a good used block, new headgasket, new head bolts, a valve job with new valve stem seals (using your cylinder head), new timing belt, new water pump, new oil pan gasket, new fluids and filters. $1375 includes all parts and labor...Let me know if you are interested.
Gene

Originally posted by GringoEJS
Hey, I live in KC as well. I can get your car running again for a lot cheaper than any shop, but I am pretty backed up right now. I have 4 2g Eclipses and a Talon ahead of yours (if I did it), and each car averages 3 to 4 days to get gone. If you are still needing your motor replaced in 2 weeks, I can do it for around $1375. That includes putting in a good used block, new headgasket, new head bolts, a valve job with new valve stem seals (using your cylinder head), new timing belt, new water pump, new oil pan gasket, new fluids and filters. $1375 includes all parts and labor...Let me know if you are interested. Gene

Email sent with my phone numbers... Thanks Gene. Hopefully we can work something out.

I don't trust them. First off rod rap is usually a knocking noise. Semantics, but I wonder what makes them say rod rap. My suspicious/paranoid mind says that an exhaust leak is often confused with rod rap. Is that their game to get you to pay 5k for a rebuild? IDK, something sounds fishy.

But if it's me and it's rod rap I'm doing the rod bearings and giving it a go. Bearings cost what $30-$40 ( I don't know if they are even that much)? It takes about an hour, turnkey, to do the job with the engine still in the car. I have done this job a few times with good results each time (only once with a dsm. Mine. Lasted for 3k until I did my big rebuild - but the bearings were still good). There are parameters to watch for though. If your crank is really screwed then this won't work. But from your description it sounds like you caught it early. If you can't /don't want to do this yourself, have a trusted mechanic look at this option for you. Any good engine guy can give you a likelyhood of this working, just by listening to the rap. I didn't say guarantee, just likelyhood.

You got enough on your plate than to worry about a 5k engine rebuild.

Just my 2 cents.

More importantly, good luck with the battle, it can get you very weary. Words of experience and I won.

MB

Ol' Gene^ never got back to me today... I think I'm gonna say FU to Meinenke and go pick Janet up tomorrow. I haven't really taken the time to diagnose the prob myself with everything else going on, and I feel after all I've read I should give it one last shot.

It's definitely a 'ticking' sound (I originally thought I just had something loose under the hood, or a giant zip-tie or something stuck in my rotor) that you don't hear at idle, only at about 3k and up. In fact, if you let it sit out of gear and rev it, you don't hear the tick much, if at all. The tick only seems to happen when it's under load in gear, and in every gear, thru about the same RPM range (3k until shifting, MT going at it easy). Both times I let the car sit overnight, I'd start it up the next day and I wouldn't hear it at all. I thought it was magically fixed, but then the noise would come back as I got a few blocks away. The frequency seemed to go inline with engine revs.

I never even felt a loss of power or anything else until I drove it that last day, and even that could have been imaginary. The power loss (and suddenly having almost NO oil in the car anymore, though I have no leak spots in my garage or anywhere else she's parked) I thought I felt is what caused me to panic and drop it off at Meineke in the first place. But like I said, it might have been just in my head...

I'm a bit afraid to drive it anywhere, but I live only a few blocks away, so I think I'm going to put her in the garage back home for now. Hope this new info helps... Many have told me it could be exhaust leak before, but I did my whole exhaust from header to muffler, and have had leaks before. They never sounded like this. I guess maybe an exhaust leak at the header could make this tick sound? I sure didn't see/feel/hear anything there, but again I could only hear it in the car while under load in gear.

Again, thanks for the help guys...

EDIT: Money is tight right now, but I'd definitely pay someone in the area if they could just tell me definitively what the problem is. Meineke had always been good to me in a bind, but with different people working there now, it may as well be a whole different shop.

PM'd you back...

I'll bring a 420a down in my truck and install it for you for $4500 :)

Originally posted by Blizare
I'll bring a 420a down in my truck and install it for you for $4500 :)

DEAL! :thumbsdown

I went to Meineke, paid my $32 for the crappy diagnostics, and will just leave her garaged until I can get someone to check it out. Hopefully Gene can at least make a trip to Olathe and tell me for sure what's wrong with it...

Thanks all again.

Originally posted by Blizare
I'll bring a 420a down in my truck and install it for you for $4500 :)

That's just for gas, right?!

I'd sooner trust another 2GNT'er than a shop.

Originally posted by 95_ESi_Person

Originally posted by Blizare I'll bring a 420a down in my truck and install it for you for $4500 :)

That's just for gas, right?! I'd sooner trust another 2GNT'er than a shop.

^ That's why I keep comin' back! TRUST!

I miss Chad from here in KC... I think his SN was 'OZ_GS' or something. Ever since he sold his 'sister' 99 GS, it feels like my car's twin has died. I miss his huge garage and working on our cars together. They were identical, except he had black leather interior to my tan... They looked sweet parked next to each other. :(

Hrmmmm, it's still driveable... Maybe I should smash her into something and file an insurance claim... $500 deductible, full coverage... Very tempting! :D

Sorry to bump this uninformative topic, but I'm really in a bind here.

Things didn't work out with the local KC guy on this thread; he was going to come and give my car a listen this past weekend, and I haven't heard from him since.

Still got the 'ticking', though I haven't been driving my car at all. I can no longer afford a rental as of this weekend, and I have mediation re: the custody battle with my son next week, and things won't go over well if I don't have reliable transportation.

Questions:

Anyone know of a reputable shop in my area (Kansas City), or a chain that would actually grind the crank and replace bearings? Or at least be able to find a new engine, install it, and guarantee it?

The local guy also said that I might be able to actually get rid of the tick if I would add a WAY heavier oil and run the car for a while. I think he suggested something like 30W-50? Wouldn't that jack up all sorts of things, or could this actually work?

At this point, I would pay a 2GNTer whatever it takes just to diagnose the real issue, and help me with a plan to get the car running again. snuffy@snufalufagus.com if you can help. Thanks all.

I guess it's not worth much but if you move closer to me we'll fix it here. Eh, it's the thought that counts :shrug
MB

Heavy oil is just going to cover up some lifter tick if there is any.

Worst thing to do right now is drive it and throw a rod through the block or something shitty. I bet you if we all chipped in we could get you some bearings/used crank or whatever you need to get it going, but without taking the oilpan off and checking out the damage, you/we don't know what to tell you.

Truth is just by looking in the crankcase you won't be able to see much.
If I were you I'd get those pistons out so you can see the crank. Bearings are cheap and you could prolly get away with just replacing the m and using everything as is.

Originally posted by Blizare
Heavy oil is just going to cover up some lifter tick if there is any. Worst thing to do right now is drive it and throw a rod through the block or something shitty. I bet you if we all chipped in we could get you some bearings/used crank or whatever you need to get it going, but without taking the oilpan off and checking out the damage, you/we don't know what to tell you. Truth is just by looking in the crankcase you won't be able to see much. If I were you I'd get those pistons out so you can see the crank. Bearings are cheap and you could prolly get away with just replacing the m and using everything as is.

Thanks so much for getting back with me. The local guy came by my house last night, and he never heard 'tick' so quiet, so he believes I caught it early enough to just replace the bearings. I have them in hand already, and hope it works. I'll be sure and let you know how it goes, and I'll definitely try and get in there with him so that I can do it myself (or with little help) next time.

Thanks again everyone.

Remember the direction the rod caps came off!!! I lucked out and mine went back on perfectly!

Can you make a recording of the 'tick' and email it to me? There are so many different ticks that cars make.

Had the same tick (3k rpm and up) but didn't care about it because I had a spare block and was planning a full build. Well my tick turned into a knock and then quickly turned into bang as the #1 rod went through the block in 3 places. That was fun but I kind of regret it because that's one less good block for building. Oh well shit happens.

-Kevin

Gene (GringoEJS) came over tonight, and we did bearings only in under 3 hours. He took his time, did things right, and talked me through what he was doing so I could do it myself next time. Bearings 1 and 4 were scored, but not too bad. Bearing 2 was perfect. Bearing 3 was the worst, with heavy scoring and a little bit of meltdown. The crank looked fine except for a slight ridge on that 3rd cyl. I've driven it around for about 40 minutes now, and the tick is gone. It runs great. Gene doesn't want to be too optimistic, but if I take it easy and check oil levels and seals often, I think I should be good for a long time.

Whoever above said they'd trust a 2GNTer before ANY shop was dead right. Just want to say thanks again, Gene, and that I'm proud to be a donating member of 5 years to 2GNT.com. I thank everyone for their input.

I didn't make a recording of the 'tick', but I think I caught it very early, and I think it's common of the kind of damage you'd see/hear with crapped out bearings due to low oil levels. I'd be more than happy to post a high-res picture of the bearings if anyone would like to see them. I know I'll keep them for a long time as a reminder.

THANKS GENE! THANKS 2GNT!

JANET LIVES!!!

Originally posted by snufalufagus040
I'd be more than happy to post a high-res picture of the bearings if anyone would like to see them.

Yup. I always like to read them. It sounds like you had the right situation to get away with just bearings. When I did mine I was going to do a write up but I was afraid that others would switch their bearings when they really had to rebuild the engine :P .

I hope that Gene gets some boner points for helping you out. Doctors don't even make house calls any more!

Good luck,
MB

Damn right about doctors! Well, I gave him his first points on here, I thanked the hell outta him, and I gave him more $$$ than he asked for to do the work. I also offered to help him back at his shop just to learn; whenever he's working on a DSM, of course. ;) I think I took care of him...

As for the pics of the bearings, I'll post them either today or tomorrow.

Like I said, the crank journals were fine except for on cyl 3. I think some bearing melted on there and made the slightest of ridges on that journal. She's still running great at the moment, but does anyone think I can get away with sanding the crank while still on the car if the 'tick' comes back? Anyone think the tick won't come back? Thanks again all, especially Gene!

Yeah, that #3 is real close huh? Just some ridges and oil pressure is OK? IMO, I think you'll be OK for a while. If the tick does come back, polishing the journal will do you no good. If it comes back, time for a new crank. But, if I popped those out of my engine and wanted to buy a little time, I would def. take a shot at just doing rod bearings.

Just the question of how it happened in the first place. I think you said you ran it low on oil, yes? That would certainly do it.

Good luck and worry about the more important things now,

MB

I still haven't checked oil pressure, but I'm going to buy a guage here shortly. In hindsight, I think I was due for an oil change, then I broke my leg and didn't drive her for a month and a half, and when all this other BS came up, it simply slipped my mind. Oil was right at the low line, but not under. Isn't a light supposed to come on anyways?

EDIT: Anyone have a recommendation on what oil pressure guage to get, and where to get it? Is electrical or mechanical better?

You hit it right on the head, though... Now it's time to worry about those really important things I have going on right now. Thanks so much, everyone.

This might sound like a very stupid question but is the dumby oil light just a "low-pressure warning"? Basically if you installed an oil pressure gauge you could basically just take off the oil pressure sending unit and do away with it, uninstall the light from the gauge cluster, and just use the oil pressure gauge to monitor from then on correct?

Autometer makes several great oil pressure guages in all different styles. Gives you a great choice. I personally have a cluster bezel pod with sport comp guages (volt and oil pressure).

-Kevin

Originally posted by shazow1969
Autometer makes several great oil pressure guages in all different styles. Gives you a great choice. I personally have a cluster bezel pod with sport comp guages (volt and oil pressure). -Kevin

Got a pic or part no? I'm not finding much... Thanks.

Auto Meter Sport Comp OP guage:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ATM%2D3327&N=700+4294925228+4294925227+400442+4294822101+4294891600+4294908432+115&autoview=sku
Auto Meter Phantom OP guage:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ATM%2D5727&N=700+4294925228+4294925227+400442+4294822101+4294891600+4294908432+115&autoview=sku
Auto Meter Ultra-Lite OP guage:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ATM%2D4327&N=700+4294925228+4294925227+400442+4294822101+4294891600+4294908432+115&autoview=sku
Autometer Ultra-Lite Carbon fiber OP guage:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=ATM%2D4727&N=700+4294925228+4294925227+400442+4294822101+4294891600+4294908432+4294908436+115&autoview=sku

Hell here you go just look through their entire selection of Auto Meter guages:
http://store.summitracing.com/egnsearch.asp?N=700+4294925228+4294925227+400442+4294822101+4294891600+115+4294908432

My first rebuild in 01' I thought I blew piston but it turned out I starved the motor of oil and I spun a bearing. I got a new crank and did a full perf. rebuild. I have the autometer ultralite elect. gauge right next to my steering wheel. You can get them from jegs. Very handy tool to have and one of the many "necesary" gauges to have and on the list for anyone doing performance mods, especially turbo! I know you don't have theat yet, but I'sure your thinking about it.