I finally got a hold of Crower today and will be sending them my spare cams as cores to make billet regrinds from. I should be able to ship them by the end of this week. I was told it's a 3-4 month process or so to get these manufactured so I would estimate a early to mid next year release date. They are working on the cams for Neon, PT Cruiser, & Eclipse Talon 420A's. And are aware of the indexing differences between models so they will have separate cams for the different applications.

So hold on to your pants ladies and gantleman, we are actually going to get some cams that drop in and go. Just be patient.

"The fastest draw is when the sword never leaves the scabbard,
The strongest way to block, is never to provoke a blow,
And the cleanest cut is the one withheld."

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All Motor Beast in the Making

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors and Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold, Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors and KVR Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads

are they going to make turbo and nitrous cams too, or just cams for NA applications??

I'm several years ahead of you. I've been working with Ramiro (the cam guy) since way back in '97 and he said they were working on it back then due to the majority of neon enthusiasts. Crower is right around the corner from me. I went through several sets of regrinds. I even sold a set to someone on this board.. forgot who it was. If you're reading this.. step forward and tell me how they turned out for you.. because I haven't heard from you.

He's talking full billet cams, not regrinds, anyone can get regrinds but the gains are no where as good as a billet cam.

Missing Car. . .
Contemplating Turbo. . . . .

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Nameless Cold Air Intake with a K&N Filter
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

It's not that the gains aren't as good. If you go with mild sp
Crower will offer several different grinds.

"The fastest draw is when the sword never leaves the scabbard,
The strongest way to block, is never to provoke a blow,
And the cleanest cut is the one withheld."

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All Motor Beast in the Making

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors and Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold, Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors and KVR Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads

>It's not that the gains aren't as good.

Trust me, I have regrinds, the gains ARE NOT as good as they are with billets. I understand all that about how you can make any spec you want with a billet cam, thats why the performance is much better. With a regrind you get 5 - 10 hp if that.

The WILDEST regrind you can make still won't compare to a billet cam, even the MOST streetable un-lumpy billet cam will have more power than a regrind.





Missing Car. . .
Contemplating Turbo. . . . .

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Nameless Cold Air Intake with a K&N Filter
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

wrong.. I was talking about billet/drop in cams. And you CAN get the same spec from a regrind as with a billet. My first set was reground to the same spec as bullfrog. Had to get rid of it because it overlapped too much when I turbocharged. What they do is weld extra metal to the lobes and reshape them. Blindly (if they don't have the whole head to do research) they pretty much can take any cam and give you performance out of it with a little more lift but staying on the conservative side with the duration. You have to tell them what you want. I had cams in my car back when I first found out about this site probably close to three years ago now. I did the research on it. And the power you get from cams depends on what other mods you have in your car. Such as opened up intake, larger tb, port and polished with port matched plenum and runners, headers.... remember.. what goes in must come out. You can have all intake and a stock exhaust becuase you'll be literally choking your engine. So the best way to take advantage of port and polish is with cams and vice versa. You can say you will only get 10-15 HP from regrinds or any cam if that. It really depends. Then there's the option of degreeing the cams to extract even more power. You can squeeze out even more power by advancing your timing. sprockets are a must for performance cams.
I'm sorry but I can't stand it when people make statements based on assumptions without backing it up with research or facts. It confuses others who are trying to learn. I'm not saying it has happened on this thread.. I'm just saying so period. It's all over this board and I don't have the time and energy to argue about it .. but if anyone has any questions about anything I can easily be emailed or approached. I've been into motorsports for years now starting out with the low rider scene and then getting into the soundoff aspect with IASCA and such.. moving on to the extended amount of time I put into racing and blowing up/rebuilding engines (not just my eclipse.. but all my friends hondas and nissans also) and then moving onto the show scene where I gathered sponsors left and right.
If you truely believe something but aren't entirely sure it's true .. please say so.. don't toss out false/unproven info. ASK. 97RS.. believe me.. I've been trying to get Crower to make billets for about a year straight until I settled for the all customizable 40.00 dollar per cam regrinds. Peace

So who was the guy I sold the Crower cams to? Are you here? anyway.. I remember it's someone from Washington...

sorry but even a regrind that had material welded on so that you can get a larger lobe may perform as well as a billet cam but it will *not* last as well specially on high performance use in engines that will never have their cams swapped more than 1 every 2 or so years.

Its the old story of having a stock crank re-welded so that you can have a stroker kit. It will work, but forget about reliability.

I would like to see a cam that has material added to it. If they add material, why would you have to shim the lifters to make up for the material that they removed from the base circle to change the specs.

http://www.cranecams.com/master/regrind.htm

I am not trying to be an ass, I thought that it was welded to certain specs until someone told me otherwise here on the board and I measured my regrinds against the stockers and could see that the regrind was smaller, and had NO material welded on.

Oh yeah and Raizin, it was Sam Crawford (Sea97GS) that bought your cams. I haven't seen him on here in a while.

Missing Car. . .
Contemplating Turbo. . . . .

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Nameless Cold Air Intake with a K&N Filter
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

I got your cams right here baby.... :) From the information that I've gathered on the track, I picked up 13whp from the regrinds that Raizin had. That's with the standard big 3 mods.

The only unfortunate thing about these cams is that I would have liked to have seen less overlap even all motor. A little more cylinder pressure would have created a lot more power.

If I get a wild hair up my arse, I'll get a set of Fidanza cam gears and retard the exhaust cam about 4 degrees. That should give me enough pressure to make more power.

there you have it.. the cam lobes on the cams he has were bigger than stock. he even has the slip crower gave me with the specs. compare that to the stock specs. I eyeballed it and saw the lobes were bigger. Oh.. kiku.. garnish proof of somebody running the forged steel lobes on a reground cam down. fast 420A, I don't understand your logic... you seem to be under the impression that all they do is take your cam and start grinding away at it. Now how do you get higher lift and longer duration that way? Wouldn't you think they'd add steel to it? I stood there and watched crower make my cams. they have a glass window between the office and where all the machinists work. I've seen the lobes get red hot.

Well.. all in all.. It's up to you really. If you wanna spend the 300+ duckets to get billet cams that's on you. Oh.. and remember Mutiny racewerx? Guess who made their cams? They took factory cams straight from the dealer.. paid 260.00 (130.00 each) and reground them for 80.00 bucks and sold them for almost 450.00. And they were selling like hot cakes to companies such as Extreme Motorsports. THEY WERE REGRINDS!! And when they'd recieve cores.. they'd charge the same even when they didn't have to pay for the cams. Way to make money huh.. How do I know? I was there.. I hung out at their ghetto ass shop who's port and polish bench had nothing but a dremel and some aluminum shavings.

http://www.dynospotracing.com/cams.htm

Check this page out. It is a company the regrinds cams. They explain what they do exactly about halfway down the page.



Here is most of it. . .

It is a well-known fact that regrind cams have one huge advantage over aftermarket grinds performed on new billets. It’s price. Regrind camshafts run anywhere between 50-70% less than new billet cams. That’s a given. But, do regrinds have any other advantages. The answer is yes. Regrinds are cut off factory cams that have factory set indexing. That’s obvious and what we want. But, new cams are sometimes not! Ever hear about the need to index aftermarket cams? This procedure is performed because the aftermarket company has incorrectly cut the cam lobe centers in relation to the gear.

What other benefits do regrinds on factory cams have over new billet cams? Well, again they are cut on factory billets! And, they have guaranteed factory hardness. Let’s sum up these points:

Regrinds are easily cut on factory lobe centers eliminating the need for indexing which the majority of shops do not perform. Indexing is a fairly difficult job and requires an expert mechanic most likely with machining skills. Some cams cannot be easily indexed.

Regrinds, being cut on stock cams, guarantee factory hardness.

Best of all, regrind camshafts run 50-70% cheaper than cams cut on new billets.

In all fairness, there can be disadvantages to regrinds. For one, regrinds are typically created by reducing the base circle of the camshaft. The heal area is usually reduced to create more lift. Thus, total lift is limited to the amount of material that can be sacrificed on the heal. If too much material is removed off of the cam heal, the lifters may forced to over extend in order to reach the cam. This can lead to premature wear of the lifter. For cams that use shimmed valve clearances, this is usually not a problem. Thus, regrind cams need to be correctly designed. There is no mistake about this.


current status unknown

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Nameless Cold Air Intake with a K&N Filter
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

Both sides of the story are completely valid. IF the Cranes were available, those would have gone into my new cylinder head anyway. I was looking for something that would get me into the 15s solidly for now.

They are cheap and do the job right. All you have to do is correctly shim your lifters. You are not going to get any extra wear from doing this on the cam lobes, liftersor rocker arms. I looked. Everything is pretty.

I don't really feel like waiting for Crower to get our cams ready. We're already 2 years behind the curve of the Honda/Acura cams and we'll just fall farther behind unless one of the manufacturers steps up and just get's the job done. If you go out to the Crower site, there are supposedly grinds available right now. If you look on Howell's site, they have 7 more grinds available to them than we will have.

Sorry, but I'm starting to get pissed off by this.

Well its seem as if some places hack down the the base circles creating bigger lobes (in relation to the base circle) which would limit lift to the amount of material that could be removed from the base circle.

If also seems from Raizins experience Crower does it different as described.

So there we have it.

The regrinds that I have do have material removed from the base circle to change the specs on it. They are Mutany Raceworx cams that I bought used. Crower reground the cams for Mutany.


current status unknown

http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/

Perf:
KYB AGX Struts
Neuspeed Sport Springs
5 Strut Bars (2 F/U, F/L, R/U, R/L)
Sprint Front Camber Kit
$15 Rear Camber Kit
Corbin's A/F Gauge
MSD DIS-2 Ignition System
Some Regrind Cams that need High Compression (which I don't have)
Ported Intake Manifold
Ported Throttle Body
Nameless Cold Air Intake with a K&N Filter
Custom 2 1/2 inch exhaust with Dual DTM Muffler
Empty Catalytic Convertor
Energy Suspension Motor Mount inserts
Hurricane_GS Short Shifter
Symborsky Shift Kit
Clutchmasters Stage 3 Modular
225/50/16inch Wheels and Tires


Audio:
Alpine CD Head Unit
Alpine Flex4 25W X 4 for Fronts and Rears
Alpine V-12 450W X 1 for Subs
Infinity Reference Series 5 1/4 and 1 inch tweeter component systems for fronts and rears
Blaupunkt 3 way 6x9's in the rears
3 MTX 5000 10" 12 ohm subs running 4 ohms mono

For milder regrinds they cam just use the stock material and reshape the lobes, the reduction in material is made up in the shimming of the lifters. then for more aggressive cams they can add material, this method I try to stay away from, I have heard some horror stories on some V-8s about the material not being welded on properly and breaking pieces off.

Reliability really is the big reason to go for billet cams over regrinds.

And crane cams can be used if you know how to index them properly... I just do NOT want to go through the hassle.

"The fastest draw is when the sword never leaves the scabbard,
The strongest way to block, is never to provoke a blow,
And the cleanest cut is the one withheld."

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All Motor Beast in the Making

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, Hooker 4-1 Stepped Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730 215/45ZR-17. Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors and Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: Ported/Polished Intake Manifold, Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors and KVR Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads