Just wanted to post on a few great things I've noticed with my LSD. While, I haven't really had a chance to launch at all, while trying to break in my new engine and clutch, as the miles have gone on, I have had an opportunity to open her up a little bit at low boost.

Yesterday, while it rained like mad on the way back from an import meet, I noticed while leaving a stop light, I could actually give my car a little (or a lot of) throttle, and not endure massive wheel hop. Now, I know I also have ES motor mounts installed which help, but this was different.

I tried to intentionally make the car lose some traction by over accelerating, and then by applying more throttle after that, I could pull the car out of the slippage. It was awesome. That means, rather than trying to merely straighten the car out, and coast a little bit, staying off the throttle and the brakes, until traction is again realized, I could actually apply heavy throttle and accelerate out of it having 50/50 wheel power to the front tires. Very AWD-like almost. I loved it! The car is no longer acceleration-impaired when it rains!!

I can't wait until I turn up the boost, and go from a dry start! }(
(I'm at 550 miles or so on the break-in)

Good news!! Can't wait to get mine in!

ahh yes I think I should add my input about it. I think mine is starting to break in but lemme see here I haven't tried to launch that sucka yet I got my grippy tires on also. But from what I've noticed from driving like and old lady half throttling it around the corners is that the front end either grips too much or grips too little. one time I was in a parking lot with gravel it and I jerk the wheel a bit and the front starting slidding hella, but I"m guess cuz it wasn't broken in yet.

then when I take corners that sucka grip it feels like the front of the car wants to tear itself out of the car, the front just goes where you point it and everything gets pulled with it. You can make it grip more while your accelerating from what I've noticed so it oversteers as your giving it power. but it tends to understeer when you take the corner without throttle. So I'm guessing it worx like a 1 way LSD being acceleration only which is koo :) Strange sensation in a FWD car you get more traction as you give it more power and more oversteer kinda like an AWD or FR :) I have yet to take it through some serious cornering though cuz I"m still in break in and I'm running with one crossmember bolt missing.

ALso I've noticed if I turn the wheel a lot and left foot brake I can make the tail of the car swing out. Now if I had it setup for drift it would do this but.... I have my grippy tires on and my suspension is setup for neutral handling

so far my thoughts on this LSD is :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

Nice.
I should have my car back this week. I got the PG. I see you guys talk about a break in period. I can understand with the clutch but how long should I wait. I also got the motor mount inserts and a flywheel? I can't wait to rip it! :D


http://www.cardomain.com/id/jasvbts2k2
"The ONLY Honda I'd mod would be ASIMO"

yeh haha everything needs break in apparently engine, clutch, and SID X(

Title says it all. Finally. Can't wait to get it and slap it in!!

Sounds great, Thura!

Don't forget to buy some safing brackets for the differential! For the ridiculous amount they cost (<$10), and the additional protection it affords, slap them on!


If you need any pointers on getting that tranny back together shoot me a IM, and I may be able to give you a few suggestions.

I've just put in the phantom grip with the race tunning package "even stiffer springs inside" and they said the break in period was 300-500 miles.

Well I just checked an old post about these LSDs and here's is what I found from what the dude who makes these said:

>quick question, What exactly are the differences between the
>two setups (street and race??). Will one be able to hold
>more power over the other, if so, how will this affect
>cornering??
>
>
>It is not the power level, it is the amount of wheel slip allowed by >the SID. With the race springs you get less slip across the board. >Many neon owners are running this setup on the street with no >problems, it is a matter of personal preferance really.
>
>these units are modular, you can upgrade from street to race for ~8$
>
>
>EDIT: cornering....well as you accelerate out of a corner, you will >have more power evenly distributed across both front tires! It also >balances the torque load across both wheels during braking while >turning also to promote stability.
>
>
>www.newskoolracing.com

so I stand corrected its not a one way it a 1.5 way. Seeing as how it will have the limited slip effect during acceleration and braking but not when just coasting. I think that's how it worx that or its a two way I forget. Wow makes me feel even better about buying these, didn't know there was a groupbuy on these things also, I just found them on ebay :P

anyway you can also weld the diff pin in like what I did. I don't know how that sucka is suppose to come out though there another roll pin holding it in, it was really hard to get off. But I welded it anyway.




I think I shoulda got the plates though haha it took me awhile to weld all that metal in and it looks all sloppy because of my weak welding skillz :P That sucka ain't going nowhere though :)

lol...sweet man.

Yeah, I'd recommend the brackets though, if you can. I bought them from Bob Kise and got them in a couple of days for like $8.

I have the race springs on mine as well. I LOVE this LSD now. It's SOOOOOOOO much better than before! You can feel the LSD kick in...sometimes it takes just a spin or so, and you can feel both wheels getting that 50/50 grip. Also, on turns...it's friggin awesome. I get so much more acceleration.

Besides, this car is so way past the days of domestic tranquility with it being lowered, on 17" rims, with motor mounts...who cares about being docile? Give me power to the road baby!! }(

I can't believe more people dont have this LSD. It's terrific. Every day, I like it more and more.

haha yeah I've always wanted a LSD for my car. But its a pain in the ass to install having to take that tranny out and take it apart. Don't even mention putting back together UGH!!! Only reason I got it is cuz its cheap, I didn't wanna be in the captain hook drift club anymore (captain hook has one leg and 1 arm? get it one legger :P ), and I was gonna have the tranny out of the car so why hell not :)

Damn you guys... always making me want to buy more parts!!!

That's awesome to hear, I'm glad it's working so well. This is added to my list of work to do when the tranny comes out.



15.9 @ 86.7mph

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Cams, Hooker Header, ERT/Catco Cat, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

I talked to Bryan at New Skool Racing to ask about spring rates. Jason, you were right. They completely ditched the "street" spring because no one was buying them. All the SIDs now come with the "race" springs.

Michael, buy buy buy!!!! }(

so how do we go about obtaining one of these?? was about 160 bucks right?

http://64.70.217.126/dc.html

how long did it take for u guys to realy feel the lsd kicking in i've only put about 100 miles on so far and havent kicked it ne yet. Also has neone of u went to the track with it in and if so how did it help ur 60ft

I haven't really put it through a ton of launches yet, but when I roll out of a turn, or jump on it in the rain, I can really feel the 50/50 power distribution. And that's the point.

You really need to play with your car more, so you can know what to look for and feel. It took me a while to, to understand where it shines, and I incidentally found out. I've had it about 650 miles or so. Give it some time.

I've read that the PG requires like 10-14 hard lauches for it to start operating correctly.

These sound good and I'm awfully tempted to buy one, but can someone answer a stupid question for me first?

I know the Quaife LSD is a much larger unit, but what is the benefit to it? Why spend an extra $1K when this unit appears to do the same thing? Is there a downside or risk to buying the newskool or PG vs. the Quaife?

Thanks!

Dino as some others will tell you, they dont like the idea of metal on metal friction or pressure. Its just not a safe thing in the long run.

the only reason i got the phantom grip instead of the new school lsd is that i heard the new school one was made of 2 differnt types of metal the outside being hard and the inside being a softer metal. So if somehow the outside is worn out the inside would go quickly. Also the phantom has a lifetime gurantee. As far as metal against metal isnt that how the transmission works neways. I dont really see a problem in this way but if u think there is will u please explain it to me becuase i just put in the phantom grip.

Also i broke the pin that held in the diff pin when installing the phatntom grip so i replaced it but i notice a differance in the orginal and the new pin. The orignal cheap and poor quality while the other was solid and had a part at the top that would help it lock in when u put it in.

Also i got the race tunning package with the phantom grip and they offer a differential saver kit which is a new pin u put in the diff and locks on each end somehow and keeps it from coming out
and dont forget about the safing brakets

sorry for the long post

>Dino as some others will tell you, they dont like the idea of
>metal on metal friction or pressure. Its just not a safe thing
>in the long run.

The idea DOES sound crazy, but it's far from risky or innovative. I still vividly remember a FACTORY, OEM differential using the same technology in a older corvette rear differential when I was at the Chicago Auto Show last summer. The same metal plates with disks rubbing against some spider gears. It's not anything new.

I've yet to actually hear of one firsthand account of a T350 differential being damaged as a result of using one of these. Tons of people use these things, and usually always very pleased with the results. Yet I'm always hearing of theoretical problems or third party accounts of how somethiing went wrong, or how someone wasn't happy with the outcome. (the story sounds a lot like people scaring me away from installing myt turbo kit in my car over 4 years ago..."oh, my friend did it, and his car blew up" or "only 4G63 engines can be turbocharged since they came that way from the factory") If something breaks, then perhaps I will replace with a $1200 Quaife LSD, but until that time, I'll risk my entire $350 transmission on this $150 LSD.

Right now, I realize only 1100 miles into it, I am SO pleased with this LSD. I think others who have it are too.

Some will tell you, unless you are a BIG track racer or Auto-X'er, than it's not worth getting the Quaife. But if you got alot of money invested in the car wouldn't it make sense to invest $1200. And if you beat on the car constantly wouldn't a better design make more sense? :wary If you got the loot buy it but if not, this is good for something. My view on it.

BTW - My car is done I get it back Tuesday. }(


http://www.cardomain.com/id/jasvbts2k2
"The ONLY Honda I'd mod would be ASIMO"

if i even had a remote clue on how to
a: take trans out
b: install anything new in trans
c: actually installing something that will work (since i installed it)
d: getting everything back together w/out breaking half of it
e: getting trans back into car

anyways, it seems that if i want to install something new, i need all new bolts and hardware, cause my car's bolts are like all rusted, and i seem to strip every bolt i play with.

im sad.

Yeah I will second that the Phantom grip is pretty kick ass... I had no problems with it, but I sold my car so I won't feel it anymore :/ But the damn thing was a PITA! I also go the brackets which werent hard to put on at all... Just used a grinder to grind off all the extra metal once the tranny is apart its pretty easy to put the tranny back together, you should have the heavy part on top and the casing on the ground so it slams shut...:thumbsup

well since i have to rip apart my tranny for the damn input shaft bearing/seal anyway, i will prob get the slipp in dif and brackets also. One question though, you guys say that its much easier to put the halves back together by the bell housing on the ground, and putting the casing up side down on top of it when putting it back together? Since i have never done this, it may sound dumb, but wont the internals(gears, ect..) of the trans fall out when you put it upside down?

they wont fall out but there is a beering that will cause slight problems. All i know is that it was a bitch to get back together. Also i think ur surposed to cut off the top of the safing brakets or it will hit ur speed sensor or something and i just used a dremel for that.

>well since i have to rip apart my tranny for the damn input
>shaft bearing/seal anyway, i will prob get the slipp in dif
>and brackets also. One question though, you guys say that its
>much easier to put the halves back together by the bell
>housing on the ground, and putting the casing up side down on
>top of it when putting it back together?



Hey Matt, I've turned that thing 4 diferent ways trying to find the best to do this, and I believe the way to go is to leave the tranny part with all the gearing on the bottom, and drop the bellhousing on to the gears, BUT use a TON of grease and have the roller bearing IN the bellhousing part of it, in its race. It won't fall out so long as you have enough grease in there, and if it does fall, you don't have enough grease! hehehe

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid61/pe82f2d747ccc0ec8033b646449f0ecf6/fc27552a.jpg.orig.jp g (use imagestation to get to this picture...obviously, I spaced the "g" from the ".jp")

I think dropping the gearside down on to the bellhousing is the exact same concept in that you're keeping the roller bearing in the bellhousing, as you re-attach, and that's the key. The roller bearing needs to stay in the race of the bellhousing so it won't break. If you try and force it any other way, that plastic cage of the roller bearing won't stay together without the race holding everything together. And the roller bearing is the key to everything!

Since i have never
>done this, it may sound dumb, but wont the internals(gears,
>ect..) of the trans fall out when you put it upside down?

Yeah, it sounded dumb to me as well. I tried to do it that ways a couple of times, and it sure was awkward, but I think it's possible. Nothing should fall out except for the differential, and you actually keep that on the bellhousing side upside down. In any case, I'd go with the method I described above. It's basically the same thing, but it's a ton more lighter, manageable and accomplishes the same thing: keeping the roller bearing in the bellhousing race apart from the differential.

Hope this helps!

With this method, I was able to put them back together with an accurate drop of the bellhousing in a minute or so, while every other ways was a MAJOR PITA, buuuuuut worth hours of fun!
:rolleyes

i'm very interetsed in getting a "fake" LSD too. $160 for more traction would be really nice, but i'm another one of those people scared to take the transmission out and mess with it. i installed my turbo kit, and put a new shortblock in, but i haven't touched my transmission yet.

the ideal situation would be to find a 2gnt'er in my area who has taken apart the NV-T350 and lend a hand on how to do stuff. (i don't have an engine lift, and i've never taken my axles off and have no idea where to start) i'm going to be installing a new clutch soon, so it would be perfect to buy a LSD at the same time.

Great! Thanks for the tips Jason! Now its my turn to rip apart the trans. Good times :) I've been wanting to tear that thing apart, since that's about the last thing i havent taking apart yet haha..I love to take things apart and see how they work. Too bad when i was a little tyke, i broke many toys this way haahah..just couldnt get em back together right :)

well here is a conversation I had with Dino, I hope he doesnt mind, if you do Dino and you read this please delete this...:thumbsup

razorsharkusa: estimated price?
Dark0ne95: Same as a PG.. $300
razorsharkusa: damn
razorsharkusa: serious?
Dark0ne95: yeap.
razorsharkusa: whats the basic theory behind it...better right? no danger of metal to metal grinding
Dark0ne95: It's still a stock diff, just a better LSD design than a pg.
razorsharkusa: oh so we have to use our own
razorsharkusa: "??
Dark0ne95: a PG "locks" by applying metal-on-metal pressure.
razorsharkusa: exactly
Dark0ne95: there's no friction aid, just really high PSI coil springs and direct pressure.
razorsharkusa: uhm.,.. not all that difficult to install
razorsharkusa: compared to the pg?
razorsharkusa: sorry if this is bugging ya , just really interested now
Dark0ne95: This unit uses machined planetary gears and a specially designed friction material to more efficiently grip.
Dark0ne95: less slip at lower spring pressures, making is safer to use for higher HP applications.
Dark0ne95: You see, when the PG uses a 1200lb coilspring to apply metal-to-metal pressure, that's 1200lbs of force that is stressing on the diff housing itself, which can lead to failure.
razorsharkusa: yet still usable for lower boost pressure users?
razorsharkusa: i see
razorsharkusa: how often is the expected lifespan for the friction material?
Dark0ne95: This unit, which uses a special friction material to grab the planetary gears, can use much less spring pressure to afford the same if not better grip, leading to less stress on the dif itself.
Dark0ne95: years.
Dark0ne95: If you're interested, i can give you Carlton's email address.
Dark0ne95: The name of the company is RLS. My contact there is Carlton McCrary.
razorsharkusa: of course
razorsharkusa: and we are going to be ordering directly from him?
razorsharkusa: im on the waiting list...
Dark0ne95: #########@hotmail.com
Dark0ne95: he actually has a spare core diff right now that i sent him. Qwad is buying one as well.
razorsharkusa: and you are happy with the results
?
Dark0ne95: Very.
razorsharkusa: ok so we receive the diff send our stocker back?
Dark0ne95: it's a night and day difference.. i still spin lots of tire, but the car goes STRAIGHT.
Dark0ne95: and in the corners.. omg.
razorsharkusa: hehe wish i could do that
razorsharkusa: i thought that you would wnat one tire to spin more then the other in a corner
razorsharkusa: or am i wrong?
Dark0ne95: Well, you may be able to work it out with him to use the spare core i sent him, and sent him your stocker, or you could buy it as a kit and just have the planetary gears machined down to take the lsd unit.
razorsharkusa: so we have to have the gears machined
?
Dark0ne95: You do, so the wheels won't bind up. However, it'll corner like stock until you stand on it. When it gets enough torque split to apply pressure on the planetaries, it just grips, noses down, and rips you through the corner.
razorsharkusa: ok cool Ill talk to him then.
Dark0ne95: The planetaries, where the axles go through, have to be machined flat.
Dark0ne95: He'll do it, if you send him a diff, or if you can work it out to use the spare i sent him.
razorsharkusa: oh one more thing...are the AT and MT diffs exchangeable?
razorsharkusa: i have an AT right now. but im working on the MT swap
Dark0ne95: i beleive the diffs themselves are the same, bu the ring gear is different.

see thats whats in my head, Im like a sponge. But I also go with what is proven ( and cheap). But for a bit more why not go for this? still less then 1K and suppose to work better then the PG. In theory.

interesting if it came out earlier I might've gone for that one :P

Since someone asked, I went with the quaife for a few reasons, but it does not mean I think this new diff is not a smart solution for the cost. The biggest reason I went with the quaife is overall durability. I wanted to get away from the stock differential and I could afford the quaife. I also like the way it works for a street car and fwd being a torsion vs a clutch pack. That is also another discussion for another thread. If you are on a budget, using this type of diff is perfectly fine. Anything is better than the stock open diff. My only concerns that I am waiting to see is how it performs over long term on a high powered car (more than 300).

Does this diff always provide a 50/50 split or does it allow a full range of power transfer to each wheel?

I assume you guys do not get the constant back and forth feel of traction movement like the quaife gives when driving? Hard to explain unless you have ever felt it, but it is feedback in the steering wheel of constant working of the diff. I believe it is a symptom of quaifes only. Not a bad feeling or anything.

Oh, here is a pic of a quaife next to a stock diff to compare to. As you can see, you can not see. It is closed.

This is what a Mustang Trac-loc limited slip looks like. Factory on all 83 up V8 mustangs. This is a pic of a 8.8" unit, from a 86 up Mustang. It uses a set of clutches on each side of the spider gears and gets preload from the s-spring. There are alternating clutch plates and metal plates to create friction and lock the wheels. Similar to most other limited slips like the GM Posi unit, and the Mopar Sure-Grip. For added grip, you add extra clutches, one on each side to make more preload. My friend got 1.42 60ft's with his. The only downside is the strength of the stock differential case itself, which is inly good for so much power. There are differentials like the Quaife, called Torsen differentials. They are not recomended for drag use though. They are THE best for road course use though, because they are torque-sensing. Saleen uses them I believe as an option. So really, the PG is not a "fake" limited slip. A Quaife is more than a limited slip, it's a torque sensing gear differential. No clutches invloved.

Complete assembled diff.



Here is complete clutch pack for one side, the ones with tabs are the clutches, the other are the metals


Here they are all laid out, this is the stock order, you can also alternate them for better grab.

:)

That is a huge ring gear. Jeez.

Most stock LSDs are clutch type. Clutch type and locker tend to make better dragracing diffs, while autoatic torque biasing units like the quaife tend to make better roadracing/handling diffs.

Well first off let me say that when I recieved the unit I wasn't all that impressed. I expected something different. But I still put it in though which was done today. Install went pretty smooth (aside from grinding off the welds that were holding in my diff pin). Got it back together took it for a spin. Really didn't notice anything all that different. Anyway, I was on my way home from watching 2F2F with Dino and there is a 270* loop. Normally I spin a little tire exiting the turn ... this time ... zero zippo nada. It accelerated straight out of the corner and pulled (no tire spinning). Very nice. I think it is worth the $150 price tag it has. :thumbsup

>Well first off let me say that when I recieved the unit I
>wasn't all that impressed. I expected something different.


http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=34&topic_id=867&mesg_id=867&page=

Is that what you mean, you weren't all that impressed? Did yours look similar?

hey I was talking to a friend of mine last weekend at the shootout and he said the BM Tranny SID are the best ones out there. Has anyone tried one?

http://www.bmtranny.com/products/bmproducts.html

Hey Murix, regarding this:

"I assume you guys do not get the constant back and forth feel of traction movement like the quaife gives when driving? Hard to explain unless you have ever felt it, but it is feedback in the steering wheel of constant working of the diff. I believe it is a symptom of quaifes only. Not a bad feeling or anything."

by that, do you mean that it feels like torque is alternating between the left and right tires, pulling the stearing wheel left and right slightly? Is this something that's fairly noticable? what's the frequency of the back and forth traction - like once a second or something?

Just ordered mine!
Patrick
96 GS
14.14 @ 96.5 mph on 8psi 8 Nov.02
HRC kit, S20G, FMIC, Howell bottom end 8.6 pistons, S-FMU, Blitz BOV, P&P head, SS valves, lots more little goodies

I installed the Newskool SID about 4 days before the shootout and it works great. Mine is the revised version that obviously was not built for looks, but it sure does the trick. When staging at the shootout, both tires were smoking and I could feel a significant increase in traction. Also, it almost eliminated torque steer for me as well. I have been running 15 psi on it since the shootout and I ran 20 psi on it at the shootout and I am very pleased. Definately worth the 150 bucks so far.