I recently joined this board, and i first read about how this guy couldn't beat a v6 mustang(an automatic at that)!!!!

That's BS!!!

HE said his eclipse was stick, and I've had many run-ins with various v6 mustangs, never lost.... ever(even when odds were against me)!!

This is where my pride for imports comes in! My goal is to be able to beat a z28, or trans am- you choose. I wish to do this without turbo.

EVERYBODY!!! Please tell me your views on mustang/trans am/camaro vs. eclipse!!!

w/o turbo you have little to no chance of beating a Trans-Am or z28. as far as the guy who lost to the stang, he miss shifted which could cause a problem... so calm down a bit...

NOT the kinda info i was lookin for!
listen, it's HARD to lose to an automatic Mustang(v6).
i've had much experience, and that's what i know about that matter.

but on the trans am and z28 issue....

I'll beat one soon enough, probably gonna have to surprise those of you with little faith!

let this be a wake-up call!! I WILL beat a z28(someday)!!!

chill out... there've been people here that have already passed through here trying the all motor route. Eric R. incase you havent heard of him. he spent thousands and thousands of dollars on all motor mods and i think at best he was low 15's. he was one of the most knowledgeable people on our cars. its very difficult to get even into the 14's all motor. much less low 13's. if the rev limiter could be removed, them theres more hope, but till then its not likely. if you are considering using n2o then ok it can happen. but otherwise dont get your hopes up. as far as losing to the slushbox stang. he went to 3rd gear at 40mph, that will give ya some problems.

Mike and Kyle both know i am with em on the all motor, i wanted that route as well but both i think know they wont get past low 14's at best.

woah dude, you're making me out to be some hyper@ss kid that doesn't know anything about racing! Not true!

I do give props to the guys that have already tryed this stuff.

My only ignorance is that i've never run my car at the track, just MANY times in the streets. I almost kept up with a trans am(automatic) a year ago with intake as my first mod. This isn't one of those gay stories kids try to tell to look cool, this really happened!
and i'm basing my car on others on the road(by experience, not time).

I will soon go to a track in Houston(hometown), but for now i seek to do stage 2 type mods(on the homepage).

One short-term goal is to be able to scratch in third! .....someday!

just tryin to clear things up....

It depends on the mustang.

The V6 mustang, 1994 to 1998 models, had between 150 and 155 hp with a car that weigs in at minimum 3050 lbs for the manual tranny car. Those cars with the auto tranny are slow and can be easily beaten by us.

Now, the 1999 up to 2002 model V6 has 190 hp. That's a big jump in HP. Now, that one with an auto tranny would probably hang even with a stock manual tranny NT eclipse. The mustang might have the slight edge in a longer race, but I'd think the eclipse would have the greater advantage in the 1/8th mile due to better gearing and the potential for the better launch.

(Actually, on a side note, I'd say we should try to always race in the 1/8 mile. If I raced the 1/8th and not the 1/4, I'd win a hell of alot more races>)

The manual tranny 190 HP V6 can't be beat (all else being equal) by our cars stock. The power to weight ratio isn't in our favor. But with some bolt ons I think they are very beatable. I'm sure I could beat a stock manual tranny V6 mustang. I beat an SVT contour (they have more HP and weigh a bit less), I can beat a V6 mustang.

The F-bodies, they are VERY heavy. None of them are lighter than 3300 lbs, not even the manual tranny V6 models. They all have 200 hp (and a shit load of torque, thanks to that good 3800 series 2 V6 engine they have) but the weight hurts them. I'd say we'd have a better chance against them as we would the newer V6 mustangs, but a stock 5 speed V6 F-body vs. a stock 5 speed NT eclipse, I'd give the edge to the F-body, but I'd think the auto tranny version we could take stock (just barely, but we could)

The last V6 mustang I raced against was a 1995 or 96, he stood no chance and I just had a muffler. The last one I saw at the drag strip (it was a while ago, not many show up) ran low 16's. I've hit 15's every time I went racing last year :)

I'm glad I am not the only one who has faith in an all-motor killing machine. Most people add power and don't decrease weight, if not they add weight. Also I really think that getting our engines into the 9000rpm range would give us that honda power, along with cams. DOn't know, just a hypothesis!

>NOT the kinda info i was lookin for!
> listen, it's HARD to lose to an automatic Mustang(v6).
>i've had much experience, and that's what i know about that
>matter.
>
>but on the trans am and z28 issue....
>
> I'll beat one soon enough, probably gonna have to
>surprise those of you with little faith!
>
>let this be a wake-up call!! I WILL beat a z28(someday)!!!


Hehe, were waiting ;) Ive seen more then a few fast Eclipses running around, and a few close races with them. Ive yet to lose to one, but thats just a matter of time before it happens. There is always someone faster out there, no matter who makes the car... I learned this lesson first hand when I got my ass handed to me by a 280Z running 26 #s of boost, not a pretty sight for me! :)

- Ryan

I seriously, seriously doubt that you will be able to beat a Z28 or a Trans-Am going the all motor route. An older one, 80's era maybe, but not a new one. I love my car, but i know it's limits. If you spent tons of money like that one company did with that neon, then yes you would be able to. But that neon is a pure drag car with individual TB's, etc. not a daily driver. PLus, it runs in the 7's or 8's i think. Just my 2 cents.

Dave

I beat a 2001 Mustang 5 speed in my car but ocassionally they get a good launch in their cars and they pass at like 95mph.

Beating a Z28...without turbo? Right.

> Beating a Z28...without turbo? Right.

You wont keep up period. The only chance you have of keeping up is if he shifts at 4k RPMs in every gear. Even then it might still be close.

By the way are you auto or manual?

Want to make a wager that your plans aren't even close to what you want to do in even 6 months? We have been around a long time and a lot of people with your attitude come and change their plans. The only real all motor guys on this site have been around since the beginning so they know what they are up against, and also what kind of time/money/knowledge it takes.

Its your choice ;)

Tnanks for the info....

i know it will be a long road ahead of me.

but, all i know is that for NOW, i'm going the N/A route.

Tell me, is it ok to do all N/A mods now, then get maybe a Hahn turbo later on?

I know the exhaust and other piping would have to change, but what about P&P and bored throttle body? will those simply help more, or be a problem down the road(W/turbo)?

o, by the way, mine's stick...

thanks,
K

I completely agree that the V6's, whether 5 speeds or automatics are beatable. Though, the new 5 speed V6 Stangs really arent too shabby. I had a race with a 2001 with pulleys, intake, headers and a full exhaust. He put up a better fight than my friends old 5 speed 97 GT. As far as Trans-ams and Z28's, forget about it. You wont keep up, period. Especially after 70-80mph. In the right hands, high 12's are capable with stock SS's. Theyre very underrated from the factory, and mean as all hell. Turbo? Yeah. Go for it then :D

OK..the newer V6 stangs run mid 15's with stick and low 16's auto so I doubt you will beat them stock unless the guy in the 5spd stang can't drive because an auto is not always the slowest...hard to miss a shift with one. But from light to light or 1/8th mile it can be different. My friend had a 99 V6 Camaro with an auto and ran 16.0 stock so they too are not bad. He now has a 2000SS Camaro that he ran 13.4@105 with traction probs so good luck there, I know it can run 12.9's eay with a different driver..TransAm's are the same and sometimes faster. Unless you raced a 80's TA it isn't going to happen. I beat a 96 Eclipse RS the other day with my 89 Probe that runs 16.4 but I would not claim that I can kill any Eclpise. Too many variables to consider when racing and it all depends on the driver. A 13 sec car with a 14 sec driver is gonna run 14's if you see what I'm saying..;)

Im pretty sure even w/ turbo we cant take Z28's and Trans Ams depending on how much boost your running. W/o internals running 8psi I dont see anyone beating a Trans AM depending on driver
-Dave

the V6 stangs are decent. I have a buddy at school who has one. Only time I had a chance to race him though a damned impala pulled out into my lane 2 seconds before the light changed. Also how did the guy launch. I doubt there's anyone out there who hasn't gotten fried cuz of a bad launch.