what is double clutching....
why do you do it?
how do you do it?

Search for heal and toe shifting.

Forget the phrase double clutching.

Double clutching is pointless in drag racing. Unless you're into drifting or Auto Xing then forget you ever heard of it.

Originally posted by EclipseRST
Double clutching is pointless in drag racing. Unless you're into drifting or Auto Xing then forget you ever heard of it.

Or driving old vehicles with no synchros. :rolleyes


Keep the fast and furious lingo off the board please. WE don't need you double clutching and shootin your NAWZZZZZZZZZZZ and blowin the welds on your intake.

Well, got to give him credit for trying to find out what it is instead of just talking the talk.

Double clutching is when you shift, you put the clutch in and put the car in neutral, then let the clutch out and rev the engine to where the rpms should be in the next gear, then push in the clutch, put it in gear, and let out the clutch.

The reason why you would do this is to get vehicle speed in gear and engine speed to match, so the transmission will actually shift.

Now, this is completly pointless to do in a modern car, because all that crap I said above is taken care of by syncros. Maybe on a car without synchros such as a 32 ford or a vintage pickup or a model A you'd need to double clutch, but not on anything you will be driving. The only exception would be if you have a bad synchro in one gear, and you'd only do it for that gear as a stop gap until you got that synchro fixed.

Originally posted by VX100
Now, this is completly pointless to do in a modern car, because all that crap I said above is taken care of by syncros. Maybe on a car without synchros such as a 32 ford or a vintage pickup or a model A you'd need to double clutch, but not on anything you will be driving. The only exception would be if you have a bad synchro in one gear, and you'd only do it for that gear as a stop gap until you got that synchro fixed.

i disagree.

rev matching is also VERY good at keeping the weight transfer of the car in check under hard braking before cornering. think about it in this situation...a rwd viper...obviously you get all your braking done before entereing the turn. now go 120, brake hard before a turn and what does the car do? dive forward...and when you turn in the rear wheels bust lose because of the weight to the back was lost. now if you were to do the same thing, high speed trail brake with the ball of your right foot and rev match with your heel before you turn in the car wouldnt dive at all if done properly and the weight transfer to the front will be minimal.

traction is your best friend

i personally rev match all day long, i'll coast in neutral from time to time then rev match into 5th...i dunno its just as easy if you alwasy practice it and most people who ride with me dont even notice...besides other 2gnters of course :P its nicer to the synchros too and its really smooth if you can get it fast, its just something to fuck around with if you have a stick is all...just a specialized driving move for downshifting before turns

well thanks for the advice...
and no i didn't get that term from the f&f movie i got it from someone on here who was blowing there tranny's in autox's and someone replied with "probably not double clutching" so i wanted to know what it was.
and for a f&f question i would have asked something like why the hell is there a 420a under the hood W/ headers and cai,and no turbo and jesse's like iiiit's got a t4 turbo system and yayayaya whatever.
i didn't know eclipse rs/gs were awd either (first drag scene)interesting????

Perhaps someone can tell me how shooting to much nawwwz can make your floor board fly off?

Originally posted by Talontaxi
Perhaps someone can tell me how shooting to much nawwwz can make your floor board fly off?

dsmtuners.com could definately explain that for ya why dont you cruise over there and ask :thumbsup

Originally posted by turbo8u

Originally posted by Talontaxi Perhaps someone can tell me how shooting to much nawwwz can make your floor board fly off?

dsmtuners.com could definately explain that for ya why dont you cruise over there and ask :thumbsup

Am i missing something? I'm not quite sure what you mean. Does no one on here like dsmtuners.com?

Err no we dont...to much missinformation :( cost me a prety peny (ok yes it was my stupidity mkay!!)..i saw the light i became a 2gnt'er!

Plus you have the mandatory every 3rd post barage of why the 420a sucks and you are evil and will rot in hell for not having a 4g63...to repent and follow the path of the 4g63 and sell/burn/throw off a cliff your 2gnt :(

That and most the people here try actualy to help you..we share info and grow for the comon cause (viva la resistance!!)

Bullshit Turbo8U. Regardless of what your clutch and rpms are doing, you still have to slow down a certain amount before a turn, and the weight transfer will not change at ALL regardless of what you do with the rpms. It's some ricer shit that has no point whatsoever on a modern car, like was said above.

Originally posted by 98Talon
Bullshit Turbo8U. Regardless of what your clutch and rpms are doing, you still have to slow down a certain amount before a turn, and the weight transfer will not change at ALL regardless of what you do with the rpms. It's some ricer shit that has no point whatsoever on a modern car, like was said above.

its quite obvious you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

how about you do some research before you post next time.

try google....search for this "rev matching weight transfer" and prepare to get owned after you read up. here are some links:

http://www.driftsession.com/drift_techniques/heeltoeshifting.htm
http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/heeltoe.html
"Done properly, this minimizes the weight transfer from the rear to the front of the vehicle since the shift is less abrupt,"

here's a blurb for you, might want to read up before you go spouting off "knowledge" you think you may have about this subject

"Heel-and-toe: One of the great advantages of a manual is that you can anticipate a corner or hill and shift into the correct gear before slowing down or hitting the gas. In racing conditions, this happens very quickly, along with the need to brake hard and getting back on the gas very quickly. So quickly in fact, the sequence of pushing the clutch, shifting to a lower gear, braking, then getting back on the gas as you release the clutch is impossible. Even if you could, the weight transfer forward while quickly downshifting would probably upset the balance of the car. This is where heel-and-toeing comes it. It means that while you are braking you need to operate the clutch and the gas to rev match as you downshift, resulting in a smooth transition that doesn't unsettle the car and provides the right gear for acceleration out of the corner. Three pedals and two feet, hmmm... The way it is done is the left foot is used for the clutch, while the right foot spans both the brake and gas pedal, classically with toe on the brake and heel on the gas. This technique requires quite a bit of experience, and practicing how to double-clutch first would help.


so before calling BS again....might want to "Learn How to Drive a Manual Transmission"

Heel and Toe braking and double clutching have nothing to do with each other. You don't press the clutch twice to heel and toe, sucka.

Originally posted by 98Talon
Heel and Toe braking and double clutching have nothing to do with each other. You don't press the clutch twice to heel and toe, sucka.

you missed the memo:

"This technique requires quite a bit of experience, and practicing how to double-clutch first would help."

my point exactly. heel and toe braking is not just BRAKING..hence toe AND heel....you blip the gas with your right heel, same concept as double clutching...blipping the gas while the trans is in neutral. heel and toe IS double clutching...or at least combines THE most fundamental part of it anyway

Heel and toe is rev matching, not double clutching. You don't push the clutch in twice, so there's nothing double about it. FYI, I do better with my heel on the brake and ball of my foot on the gas. I'll have to try your way.

Originally posted by 98Talon
Heel and toe is rev matching, not double clutching. You don't push the clutch in twice, so there's nothing double about it. FYI, I do better with my heel on the brake and ball of my foot on the gas. I'll have to try your way.

lol strike 3

rev matching IS double clutching. heel and toe is just incorporating BRAKING into the equation.

dont believe me? here, read this...

"...What about Rev Matching ? Rev Matching is a particularly useful skill to have mastered if you wish to learn the heel and toe technique, and is the main part of the double declutching process as far as smooth driving goes....."


you're ouuuuut!

Originally posted by BlueMoonEclipse
Err no we dont...to much missinformation :( cost me a prety peny (ok yes it was my stupidity mkay!!)..i saw the light i became a 2gnt'er! Plus you have the mandatory every 3rd post barage of why the 420a sucks and you are evil and will rot in hell for not having a 4g63...to repent and follow the path of the 4g63 and sell/burn/throw off a cliff your 2gnt :( That and most the people here try actualy to help you..we share info and grow for the comon cause (viva la resistance!!)

I agree with the"should have bought a turbo in the first place" crap. We know what we bought oh well. I still frequent tooners but mostly the hangout, I got tired of having problems but no help, it's cause all you other N/Tr's made it over here:-)

I love rev matching. It kicks arse.

Rev Matching is the key part of double clutching, but they're not the same thing. I match revs all the time when I'm driving around, but I do it with the clutch on the floor. I don't push the clutch in twice just to make it happen.

Originally posted by 98Talon
I match revs all the time when I'm driving around, but I do it with the clutch on the floor.

dude you cant fucking rev match if the clutch is disengaged. fuck, do you have an auto or something? you speckren some bullshit in this thread

the WHOLE POINT of putting in NEUTRAL is so when you rev it you not only move the engine, you move the TRANSMISSION...thats the rev match; speeding up the input shaft in the trans to catch up with the next or previous gear.


since you already struck out, this is when the coach would be slapping you in the back of the head

When I rev match I usually drop it to the gear I will be in when I exit the corner or whatever and I ease the clutch out along with braking until the engine revs match my tranny. This occurs at the entry of the corner, then I can accelerate out smoothly. I don't feel as much nose dive this way.

To put it another way, 4th gear driving, clutch in, drop to third, brake and ease out clutch, entering corner, revs matching, make corner, accelerating out of corner.

Is this a bad way to do it, seems pretty smooth to me and the people who ride with me. I have over 120,000 miles on original clutch.

Originally posted by turbo8u
since you already struck out, this is when the coach would be slapping you in the back of the head

Can I do it? I have a really big fish I can use.

Wow. How did I miss this thread? Turbo, I don't know if you have ever actually driven your car on a track, but I'll try and explain things.

First off, the syncros in every modern manual transmission eliminate the need to double clutch. The purpose of double clutching, as you noted, is to get the tranny gears spinning the same speed as the engine to help engagment and reduce wear. Modern technology has removed the need for this though. If you want to doble clutch, go ahead, have fun. You're doing nothing but saving your syncros from doing their job.

Secondly, Heel and Toe shifting does play a part in weight transfer, but more from a smoothness standpoint than anything else. Most of the weight transfer approaching a corner comes from the application of the brakes. As you need to downshift you have two options while you're stomping on the brakes - 1)right foot on the brake, push in the clutch, change gears, and let the clutch out or 2)right toe on the brake, push in the clutch, change gears, rev-match using the right heel, and then let the clutch out.

Option 1 will get you jerky drivetrain re-engagment which will upset the balance of the car, by allowing the engine and transmission to slow down and then be "jumped" back up to speed. This will put even more weight bias on the front of the car (since you've probably not finished braking by now). Notice you don't need to double clutch here unless you are driving a car with no syncros, it's wasted motion.

Option 2 will allow for the smooth re-engagment of the driveline, allowing the car to remain balanced and predictable.

I have spent loads (over 10 years) of time on real racetracks racing both cars and motorcycles, and the concept is the same for both. Heel and Toe allows for smoothness and smoothness equals speed. That's all.

I'd bet that if you've never Heel and Toe shifted on a track, at speed, you'd probably be amazed at how bad you really are at it. I know I was. Practicing on the street helps, but cannot prepare you for going from 5th to 3rd at 120+mph on a track. You posted some good links, and it seems like you read a lot. Maybe you should go try it out for yourself.

I used to have to rev match on the Z when downshifting. After I put in redline gear oil it syncs up much better. So yeah, if your shit is broken you may have to do it.

I dont understand why someone would take it out of gear, take ur foot off the clutch, rev the motor, put the clutch back in, and put it in gear and go.

whenever i shift in a race, i just leave the gas on the floor and shift as fast as possible (with the accelerator still on the floor) now maybe that is bad for some part of the car, but my quarter-mile time dropped by 0.4 seconds