Just to recap my situation, HRC Stage II, 20k miles later, lost cyclinder 1 due to piston damage (if your car stutters and carries on while leaning out up to max boost, its going to happen to you to, beef up your fuel system, no buts about it!!!!)

So I called HRC and bought the JE pistons and Crower rods for a mere $1160 (including Next day shipping)...oh and they were on sale..yeah right..anyway I got them, gave em to the garage and find out that there .20 thousanths oversized!! To have the motor totally stripped and ripped out, then the machine shop charges and wait time....well that was out of the question, my motor only has 36k, and I'm not dropping another $1k plus just to fit oversized pistons. What is really messed up is HRC never told me they were oversized, it doesnt say it on their website, and when I called about it the salesman acted like I was somehow supposed to know they only sell .20 over pistons, even tried telling me it stated on the website, and that I should have asked about it. I dont know about anyone else, but if you don't specifically say I want oversized pistons, its because you want stock bore. Or am I just crazy?!? Well I have to return them, with a %20 restocking fee, so for there screwup I have to get charged $80!!
I'm still trying to get a hold of Bill Hahn the owner over this crap, so Ill keep ya posted. Beware guys, ask questions, dont take nothin for granted.

Dude, everybody knows that the JE forged pistons are .020 (or .20?) over stock... if they weren't, they wouldn't fit, due to wear on the block. If you can even FIND stock bore JE pistons, you'll likely leak oil past your new rings because of the fact that cast stockers and forged pistons react differently under heat. The forged pistons expand more than the cast ones, and if you go with stock bore, at low temps, after honing your block, you'll certainly burn oil.

All that aside, i wouldn't blame Hahn. It's your own fault for not doing better research before sinking the cash into it. Personally, i would have gone ahead with the boring and used the forged pistons. Just my $.02, but anyone feel free to correct me if i'm wrong about the piston thing.

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Better research?? Nowhere on JE's site does it say everything we make is .020 oversized, nowhere on HRC's site, or any other site I've seen, they should have mentioned it to me, period. I have thought about the different characteristics of cast to forged, but thanks for reminding me, it gave me an idea, I'm having the garage measure out the cylinders, and Im just going to have them made to my specs, cheaper than paying another $1200 to fit the JE's, it'll just take longer. Lataz.

First of all, let me just say that the HRC turbo kit is pretty good, especially, their exhaust manifold and turbo; the other parts could be of better quality.

Anyway, I think Hahn's sales people aren't doing their job. I don't know what their problem is but, they certainly don't have sales or customer service skills. Plus, they're very inconsiderate and unapathetic about your needs--either you buy the staged packaged kits or they won't listen to you. On top of that, one of the sales guys told me that if I used Apexi's S-AFC they'll void any warranty! They just want you to use "their" product. As one salesperson said, "you just can't piece together" the upgrades; my question is--why not, if you know how to tune it?

Just my two cents guys.

~Fly1

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

Thanx bro, I agree with you %100.
There exhaust manifolds are good Now (except for having no room for the one manifold bolt to fit), you should have seen their original SS type. When it started cracking everywhere my car sounded like a 3cyl VW diesel.

Well just got a call at work from HRC while I was writing this, Bill Hahn understood the mistake and isnt charging me a restocking fee. One headache gone Has anybody else upgraded their pistons??? Did you use stock bore?

We have sold perhaps one hundred of these piston kits without anyone mistakenly believing they were for a stock bore. The bore size is in fact listed on our website reflecting the .020" overbore.

To avoid future confusion by newbies, we will add the .020" overbore information along with the bore size. We decided to waive a restock fee in this case, as these are easy pistons to resell and I certainly do not want to be accused of "screwing" anyone.

On another note: An earlier post referred to our sales dept as being unwilling to help someone put together a combination outside of the staged packages we sell:

"Plus, they're very inconsiderate and unapathetic about your needs--either you buy the staged packaged kits or they won't listen to you."

In certain cases, some customers' needs do outstrip our ability to fill them. This appears to be such a case. We have exhaustively researched our staged packages, and therefore, they are what we have to sell to customers. We are definitely unwilling to help mix and match outside of these packages, as this can lead to less than optimal results combined with tech support nightmares and resultant reduced customer confidence.

Standing firm on this approach is neither unsympathetic nor inconsiderate, as we will only sell what we have proven to be effective. If one does not wish to purchase what we offer, they have made the ultimate decision as a consumer. But please, do not take shots at us for refusing to sell or assist in something we are not comfortable with.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Ive talked to hahn a lot and they have always been helpful to me. They can answer almost every question I ask them. Sorry you had a bad experience. They should have told you about the pistons but thats basic that they are larger. Also they are one of the best companies dealing with the 420A so dont completely write them off.

Dave16gt

Sorry i bought a Star kit I do have to say, however, that i feel that you are one of the best companies (if not THE best) for dealing with the 420A. You cater to a small niche in automotive performance that all of us on this board are a part of, big or small. For that, i want to say thanks, and much respect.

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

As many of you know, I have always been a supporter of HRC's products. (Wasn't even paid to say that! and I'm a laywyer) Anyhow, I do think Nemesiz that no this board it's been mentioned quite a few times (more than I care to count) that these aftermarket pistons are .20" over. I've also read on this board repeated times that the consensus is that it's always a good idea to bore on placement of aftermarket pistons such as these.

Furthermore, If I were a retailer, I wouldn't guarantee or support any product or mismatched compnonet that I haven't used or tested myself...that would not only be a customer support nightmare, it would be an unwise business decision.

I can understand that you may have been confused with the circumstances or whatnot, but some of the slandering remarks that have been made in this string are a bit extreme. A simple explanation of the circumstances probably would have been sufficient so someone could have explained to you the information about the pistons. Remember, if it were YOUR company being talked about in that manner, how would you feel?

On a final note, it's one thing to start slamming companies on this board such as Buscher or Diamondstar which have openly criticized our cars by their statements and by virtue of their total lack of product support for the 420a. However, slamming the ONLY company out there with a phone number and an address with an actual website that has pioneered the 1st proven turbosystem for our cars is a bit misplaced, unwise, and wrong in my own mind.

Know who your friends are....

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Message heard, just understand that I don't knock HRC's quality, I understand that original SS manifold was a mistake, and recognize that in aftermarket products its bound to happen. I plan on buying the Stage 5 kit by the end of this coming summer. I've talked to Bill Hahn also, and he was very cool and informative, basically I KNOW he really knows his sh**. I'm fairly new to this board, and don't get to read much often, so I never seen the .020 pistons related posts. I'm just extremely frustrated and confused on what I can do, afford to do, should do, time to do it in, get my drift...
If I had to do it again I'd still buy from HRC with no hesitation, just wish I'd had better luck.

Question: Will rewiring the system to bring a full 12V to the intank pump help? Most certainly, but the pump is still straining to maintain that high pressure even with ample voltage. The best advice I can give for the intank pump guys is to monitor fuel pressure regularly to be immediately aware of any deficiencies under high boost. Consider a permanently mounted gauge. HRC owners need not be as concerned, although occasionally using the gauge we provide with the kit is a good idea, especially if you run at 9 or 10 PSI boost. Inexpensive AirFuel meters, although not real accurate in the desired WOT mixture range of about 12:1, can also be a good indicator if a problem should arise.

Nemezis: The fuel system you have is correct, and not in need of updating. Adding a Walbro intank pump should not be neccesary. Should you have trouble achieving full pressure under boost when you run the car again, please contact our Tech Support line (630-801-9065). We will review your setup and recommend diagnostic procedures to find and correct any problem you may have.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

SEE YA!!!!!!MWC

O.K., I admit that I "accused" HRC sales reps of not being helpful and, I guess I need to clarify what I said further.

I, for one, have always believed in HRC's products/research and their extensive testing and development of performance parts for the 420A. However, when I made my previous post I was pointing my fingers at HRC sales reps.

It is not that they aren't sympathetic or inconsiderate but, rather, their "tone" when they speak to you or, email you. From a business stand point it is perfectly understandable as to why HRC has developed the "stages"; but, sometimes there are better ways to tell current customers or prospective customers as to why it has to be done that way--not in an insulting way.

Because there isn't any other 420A perforance researchers/shops out there you'd think the salespersons would offer their "wisdom" of the 420A and help us understand it.

Just my .02 cents.

~Fly1

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

Fly 1: We do try to be as helpful as can be. We are sorry this was not evident in your communications with us. Overall, we enjoy a pretty strong reputation for customer service, earned through years of dealing with the public. Even so, it appears we can't please everybody all of the time.

I will personally look at these emails you refer to and find out why you were not satisfied with our answers. With your permission, I will post them here for further discussion.

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

Mr. Hahn, when I added my post under this topic I never meant for it to be a personal attack, or in any way to degrade your company's reputation. I was upset with some of the responses I got via email because, personally, I felt that the overall "tone" of the responses I received was that of someone who seem to not care for my business.

Like a lot of other NT owners out there, I do fairly well financially, but I'm not rich. I also bought an NT, and have also chosen to build upon with it and try to be unique, at the same time, proving to die-hard 4G63 guys the capabilities of the 420A--which HRC has proven. Because of my limited funds I thougt I'd piece together upgrades when extra cash was available and, basically, I was told that this isn't acceptable. What was I supposed to think; I was disappointed.

As far as printing my emails for discussion, I'm O.K. with that. I would hate to "scar" someone's reputation, nor do I like to be the bad guy. I'm just a everday, hard-working guy who just want to go faster with his NT, that's all. I apologize to everyone on this board, and HRC, if I have offended anyone.

~Fly1

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

fly1: I do understand that you are not "out to get us". I have found that practically any situation can be resolved effectively with communication.

I have searched our system and found the emails you refer to, and frankly, I do find our responses to you on these requests to be a bit, well, "tense". I have addressed that aspect with Dan in sales. He extends his apologies to you, and offers the following explanation:

We often are bombarded with inquiries to split up the packages we have developed, and can be a bit overwhelmed with how to effectively deal with them. When our responses are deemed unacceptable by such customers, we have little to offer to counter this disappointment on their part. For now, we will simply strive to be firm, but kind, in our responses to decline such sales. As we continue to analyze and understand this market, we will offer our equipment in different formats to better serve these requests in the future. Stay tuned!

Bill Hahn Jr.
98 RS Turbo: 10.87 @ 136 MPH
HRC Stage V with N20
Nation's Fastest Street FWD 2G DSM
www.turbosystem.com

I just want to say that Dan was more than help full with my situation. Not only did he personaly return my call( long distance) but he bent over backwards to resolve a situation I had regarding my fuel set up. He knows what he did, Thanks DAN!.
I have delt with HRC several times and have always been able to get the answers or product needed. Sometimes the answers we get arent the ones we want but HRC is a buisness, and they have and sell Turbo systems. I at one time wanted HRC to sell me the Manifold so I could build my own kit, of coarse the answer was no. ~
But I understood that if they promoted anyone peicing a kit together and the kit sucks wind, their name is going to be tossed around in bad light undeservingly. Alot of places would charge for some of the tech questions that HRC answers for us for free here. So I think we all, even the guy's with Star turbo owe HRC true thanks.
SEE YA!!!!!!!!!MWC

he is a very cool guy (at least he puts up with me......that's a handfull right there hehehe). he has always been able to help me out with all my "wierd" questions and request from HRC. I also heard that he has one killer suv (inside joke ). I am sure dan can help you out with just about anything you have problems with

have fun!

First of all, I'd like to thank HRC for the responses. I am not out to get anyone or ruin anyone's reputation. As a customer, I don't expect much, but I do expect to be treated with respect; after all, it's the customers that keep businesses in business. I might just spend $50 now, and I could spend $3000 the next time. It's all about customer service.

I responded and posted about HRC the way I did because I looked up to HRC for researching and selling performance parts for the 420A; and, because they know more about the 420A than any performance shops out there, I'm sure they get a lot of calls, some of which might be repetitive, might sound ignorant or stupid--that's why they're calling--to learn more about it.

Just my .02 cents.

~Fly1

___________
Kon C

"Sometimes, a man has to do what a man has to do."

and from what i can tell the company is on the level and seem to be interested in our points of view ..most corps. arent like that so savor it people...its ismost unlikely to be found else where

1997 RS AUTO

ORACLE063
1/4 - 17.021
60' - 2.510
Weight 2730