Yay... It's done...

When i started, i was excited. It was great. Four days (one rained out, xmas and nothing was open and couldn't get an oil sending unit removal socket) later, i'm just glad it's over. The first thing after i finished, we tried to start it and the battery had died (damn amp). When we got it chareged, it turned over fine, but we couldn't start for the life of us. We went through our troubleshooting process (air? fuel? spark?) First we thought it was the fuel, but come to find out the fuel pump was working fine (nobody told me it only kicked on for a second right when you try to turn the motor over ) Next we tried the spark.. And there was none. We called in the big guns and got one of the local gurus to come up to the shop. Come to find out, after two hours of us fuckin with the thing, and a half hour of him tinkering, that the harness connector for the oil pressure sensor had come loose, and that the ecu was preventing the motor from starting because it was getting no input from that sensor. (Damn, that ecu sharp, or what?) Once we got the thing running (at 9:00 this evening), it sounded like a freaking LAWNMOWER because of my custom exhaust having to be cut off of the stock downpipe and inability to get it welded because of the late time. Thus, my only driving experiances thus far are with an exhaust system that dumps straight to air and ZERO back pressure, ZERO low end torque, and ZERO acceleration. On my way home from the shop, with no illumination on my hastily installed boost gauge, i saw it got from somewhere way down in it's range to zero right before i shifted and well, i was kinda impressed. I could feel the power coming out of that turbo and even in my impaired setup, i was automatically in love.
I'm kind of worried about detonation, though. I had half a tank of 87 octane when the install was done, and i included two bottles of octane boost and another half-tank of 93 as soon as my car was mobile. For some reason, though, whenever my car became forced-induction as a result of opened throttle and turbo spool, it just didn't seem to run right. Maybe it's just me. I don't know.. I'm tired. I've had a few beers and few tokes, and i'm justb excited that i have my car to drive around again.

Food for replies:

How much for a set of forged JE pistons, 8.8:1 compression?
How much install retail?
How hard to do it yourself?
Can it be done with stock rods?
What else do i need for the project? (head studs, lift, ect?)
Can i do it without pulling the whole motor?
What is the default setting on the turbonetics wastegate in the star kits?

I've got this funny feeling that i'm going to destroy my motor soon. As i understand, the only variables in the turbo gs equation are boost and fuel octane. With the static ratio FMU, what else can i adjust to resist piston damage, other than lowering the boost or increasing octane (which isn't an option... anything higher than 93 octane pump gas is just cost-prohibitive) ?

-DarkOne
I'm so bad and long winded, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Hey DarkOne,

Congrats! Did you have any difficulty on anything else like the intercooler part of it? I ask cause I'm interested to get the same kit, and want to know what to be prepared for.

STAR Turbo stage II
180whp @ 5psi(untuned)

First off, congratulations =o) Shame on your for not switching over to 93 octane *before* doing the install! =oP Now, as far as pistons, you can expect to pay around 500 bucks. I know HRC is selling pistons and I believe I hear someone that bought a complete piston/rod/rings set for like $1160. Yeah, you could use stock rods, just have the shot peened and they'd be good for the 350hp range. Although, if you're gonna get real serious and swap internals, it doesnt make much sense not to swap the rods too. As far as doing it yourself, I wouldnt try it unless you've rebuilt a motor before. The cylinders need to be honed and the ridge cut out, and that requires machining. That answers your other question, the entire motor has to come out. It needs to be cleaned and prepped as well. Yes, you'll need head studs, gasket, seals, etc etc. Also, what kind of oil are you running now? As far as blowing up your motor. Watch your gauges, dont overboost and make sure you have no vacuum leaks. 93 octane should be sufficient. Did you get an EGT gauge? If not, definitely get one with a high quality probe and watch those temps. Those temps are even important on n/a cars. I was at Shaun's (lbcgear) house last night and he was telling me that he watches his egt regularly and his car isnt turboed yet. Just play it safe and keep an eye on things. One more thing, have you had your compression tested? If not, definitely a good idea. Anyhow, happy boosting and good luck! =o)

91 awd: 60-1, 880's, E-Prom, etc.
93 awd: JDM 6 bolt, K&N, full exhaust, Wally 255, otherwise stock.

R.I.P. the original "Factory Freak"
15.5's with short ram and catback only
1996 RS 5-speed

Laggy. Really laggy. And for some reason, really hard to start.

Also, i can almost guarantee it's running lean. It sputters bad when i get on the throttle, so i guess i'm going to have to hose-clamp all of my vacuum lines and see if that helps. I got it up to about 5psi (for a very short while)on my way to work, but it just doesn't seem to be running right.. It hesitates a little. I'm trying to keep it off boost for the time being, until i can work everything out. Some of you turbo guys give me some input, what can i adjust to help it run better? It hesitates a little going from vacuum to boost, but i am obd1 as far as i know and shouldn't need any sort of voltage clamp for the map sensor. Anyone have any ideas? Wyatt, Jason ESi-T, jason 95 gs turbo, anyone ?

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

it may be that it is running too rich. I get a good whiff of fuel when i kill the motor, and the way it bogs down it's not really a pop noise, it just seems really, really bogged down(sputtering), perhaps from too much fuel. If i romp on the pedal in any gear other than first, it sputters really bad. However, it's fine if i let it build boost slowly, carefully taking up to 4000+ rpm, it seems okay. I don't like it. I doesn't feel safe. Someone tell me something that will help me.

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

What kind of plugs are you running? Did you change your plugs, or leave the old stock ones in?

91 awd: 60-1, 880's, E-Prom, etc.
93 awd: JDM 6 bolt, K&N, full exhaust, Wally 255, otherwise stock.

R.I.P. the original "Factory Freak"
15.5's with short ram and catback only
1996 RS 5-speed

Yes, it does seem like something is not right.

1. Check the fuel system. Do you have an adjustable FMU? If so, check the settings? (Do you have a fuel guage?) Can you tell us step-by-step what you did during your fuel system install? It seems from your description that your car is running poorly even off-boost and that shouldn't happen. You still have your stock FPR connected(STAR system), right?

2. Check the vacuum lines. If you have the STAR kit, you have that vacuum line that runs from the intake plenum back to the FMU, check that connection. (It may not be related to that however, if you're running poorly off-boost as well)

3. Look around your exhast manifold. How are the bolts there?

Again, much of this is hard to speculate on. Keep giving us descriptions of what's happening during your driving. Keep your radio off and listen carefully to your engine. Watch your rpm's and boost guage. What does the boost guage read under vacuum? (this is just as important) Maybe roll down your window and listen for a bit as well.

Try not to worry about what your boosted results are until you have your non-boosted driving results straightened out. Boosting is not a big deal if you can't get your normal driving conditions under control.

Good luck and drive carefully.

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

It is the Star setup, and the stock FPR is still connected. Could it be the seal at the pump? Maybe the fuel system isn't building enough pressure at all. It stutters when i romp on the pedal in any gear, even first. When it stutters, my jumptronix af reads negative numbers
like -.02 and such.

As far as my fuel system installation, it was all done by the instructions. Installed the fuel pump first (i personally didn't do this, so i feel i should check it.) then the FMU. Ran a line from a vacuum source to the fmu, and tee'd that line off to the boost gauge. the boost gauge reads about 20 in. Hg at idle. I've seen it go as high as 5psi. I'm pretty sure the bolts on the exhaust manifold are torqued down pretty well, since i did that myself and i don't hear it leaking. As for off-boost performance, that actually seems okay, but again, if i romp on the pedal, it stutters and looses power.


-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Well, A lot of this seems like map sensor/ecu confusion about boost. You may very well need to acquire some sort of fuel mapper device. Can you describe more acutely what the problem during driving is?

Does it stutter RIGHT when you stomp on the throttle OR when boost starts to set in? If it stutters when right when boost sets in, you're in need of a vc1/fuel mapper/ FCD. If it stutters immediately off-the-line, then it may be your spark, vacuum lines or your fuel delivery.

Hope this helps.

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Sounds like you have some problems un-related to the turbo if it stutters under vacuume. One thing it could be is the TPS sensor, there was a turbo supra that was having some hesitation under partial load because the tps was out of wack. It might be sending out a lower/higher voltage to the ECU and screwing up the air/fuel ratio. I actaully think mine might ave the saem problem. anotehr problem might be that I had my TB bored out and used the sensors that was on it (off a 95) so maybe the tps is old and screwed up.
I guess the TPS sensor is pretty sensative, any water or condensation in it and they get screwed up. Another thing it could be is an over active knock sensor, the only way to know this is to check what your timing looks like under load. hopefully it should be in the high teens?
As soon as I get home and get my Data collector I'm all over it!
I should have never got my TB from Mutiny Racewerkz... DAMN!!!

Wyatt Leras
http://www.turbogs.dsmpower.com
98 Eclipse GS Star Stage 5,000 Turbo kit

LAST EDITED ON 28-Dec-00 AT 10:18 AM (PST)

I got my EGT hooked up last night. The thing is reading colder temperatures than it was when i was NA. When i cruise, it reads about 1200, and on the freeway it hovers at about 1350 until i start to boost, then it goes up to about 1400. Before i had the turbo, it would be at 1200 cruising, then about 1450 on the freeway. It still falls back to around 1000 at idle. Also, it seems to sputter at about 5psi if i give it more throttle. Also, if i'm in vacuum and i give it WOT, it starts to build boost them sputters and looses power. When it sputters, my af reads really low, single digit or negative numbers. Because of the temperatures, i almost think it's running too rich, but if that's the case, why would it sputter like it's not getting fuel when i romp on the pedal ?

Also, what does detonation sound like ? Is it a metallic pinging sound, or a low, bassy pop from the exhaust? I haven't heard any pinging noises, but when it sputters, it does pop a little.

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

Well, it seems pretty obvious that you're running rich as long as you tapped your EGT guage in your exhaust manifold.

I might take a guess and think they installed your FMU in the wrong spot. I'm not sure though. Also, with the popping noise, that's not pre-detonation. You will in fact, here a loud pinging or knocking that's unmistakeable by its sound from what I head. Sort of like marbles in a tin can or machine gun fire or something.


You may be overloading on your O2 sensors right now as well with the overly rich conditions. (this is not good on your O2 sensors and is probably causing the "weird" readouts on your a/f meter) This may be causing a lot of carbon-buildup in your Cat to boot. (This will certainly lessen it's life span) These things certainly aren't "harmful" to your engine, but there probably will be a need to get some combustion cleaner and get rid of all the built up carbon that will result.

Try and lean things out, if possible. Closely examine your fuel system. Your fuel pump sounds like ti's operational as well as your FMU. You may just have things out of order or something. Your car WILL FEEL SLUGGISH under rich conditions. I wouldn't be surprised if you weren't blowing out some small puffs of dark smoke out your tailpipe b/c of the rich conditions. Furthermore, you probably are having a dirtier than normal tailpipe as well as carbon-covered spark plugs. (these things are all normal for overly rich conditions)

You will be much happier once you have resolved your overly rich conditions. Remember, although is rich is safe, rich is also slow and sluggish. It's hard to pinpoint what exactly is causing your fuel system to be overly rich without an ability to adjust your FPR. Since this is a system that we install, there are so many scenarios of a wrongly installed fuel system, that many of us can't relate to. Be thankful that you're not on the other end of problems and have an overly lean system in which your pistons could be cracking!

Things to consider:
1. FMU placement, error in installation
2. TPS sensor
3. faulty stock FPR
4. ecu problem

I would eliminate any problem with the vacuum lines though with your very solid 20 hg/in. reading under idle and rich conditions.

Good luck. Remember, your car was running fine before the install, so it's very probable that your installation is causing the problems.

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Where is the best place to locate the FMU ? Mine is sitting right at the return end of the fuel rail on the driver's side, touching the firewall. I had a slight vacuum leak that i plugged, it was a tee fitting that was a hair two small and i replaced it with a bigger one. Since there is no way to adjust down the fuel with the 12:1 vortech, what can i do to lean it out, and what should "healthy" EGT readings be after the turbo install ? Could it be possible that someone installed bigger injectors before i bought my car, since it is used? How could i tell ?

Also, what kind of plugs should i get ? Is it the NGK BKR7E-11 ? I'm currently runing BKR5E's, which i think are one range hotter than stock, and two ranges hotter than where i should be. One more: The vacuum line that runs from the compressor housing to the wastegate.. would it be better to tee the fmu into that line since it gets it's vacuum/boost straight from the turbo, or keep it running from the intake plenum ? Should i worry about hose clamping both ends of that line, as well ? They seemed a tight fit on those nipples (hehehe, i sed nipples)?



-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

>Where is the best place to
>locate the FMU ?

Somewhere after the stock FPR anf before the fuel tank. I know you have a 95', right? You're going to need to ask someone with a 95 as well. Maybe even Corbin or Stan could help ya with this one. I'm having a tough time thinking through that fuel system, but it sounds like your having a tough time integrating the stock FPR and the new FMU with your 95 setup. Corbin has odne this already with his. Maybe give him an email and ask him precisely where in terms of the which fuel line he added his FPR.(He also has his physically on the firewall)



Could
>it be possible that someone
>installed bigger injectors before i
>bought my car, since it
>is used?

No, this doesn't seem possible without some sort of fuel computer help. I htink it's fairly reasonable to guess that you still have your stock injectors in.

Also, the if the FMU is not adjustable, you can't adjust it.

Figure out how you wrongly installed your FMU. I'm very inclined to think the problem exists there.


>
>Also, what kind of plugs should
>i get ? This one. You answered your own question.

NGK BKR7E-11 gapped at .035"


> I'm currently runing
>BKR5E's, which i think are
>one range hotter than stock,
>and two ranges hotter than
>where i should be.

This is bad. Get em out right away. (Remember, Wyatt theoried that he may have blew out his engine before b/c of hotter running spark plugs before. At least get some NGK Bkr6e-11's until you can find the 7's.) -go the the vendors' mods page for a place that sells the 7's. (linked from the main 2gnt page)


>One more: The vacuum
>line that runs from the
>compressor housing to the wastegate..
> would it be better
>to tee the fmu into
>that line since it gets
>it's vacuum/boost straight from the
>turbo, or keep it running
>from the intake plenum ?

Kepp it at the intake plenum. That's where i COUNTS b/c that's what air your engine is getting. The air in your engine is the MOST IMPORTANT THING b/c it needs adequate amounts of fuel to stave off detonation.

> Should i worry about
>hose clamping both ends of
>that line, as well ?

Mine isn't clamped there. I don't know if I 'd want to do that so as to not cause an accidental abrasion/vacuum leak or a pinching that may distort your vacuum/boost readings.


Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

LAST EDITED ON 28-Dec-00 AT 02:22 PM (PST)

IF this picture will come out right....

 to intake plenum                  ______>to boost gauge
 | | |
 | |_______________________________|
 |                                 |<--vaccuum line
 | ----------------            ____/
 ■| fuel rail |=============|FMU|
 ^ ----------------  return^   -----
 |             || |
 |-stock fpr   ||                 |<--back to tank
                \\
                 =====>feed line from pump








Does this make any sense? this is my fuel setup, vacuum lines and all. it is as accurateas i can make it seem.


-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

That picture kinda looks like my a map when I'm really drunk! hahah (sorry man)

Jason
98' Eagle Talon ESi-T
Mitsu Super 16g Turbo(HRC)


http://springfielddsm.homestead.com/JasonsPics.html

_____________________________________
Jason ESi-T

04' BMW 325Ci
91' Nissan 240SX
98' Eagle Talon ESi (sold)

Mr. ESi-T, my feelings are hurt.

Just kidding. Anyway, i noticed something on my way home from work just now. When my car starts to build boost, my af freaks out. it starts to display really low numbers (.07 and such) Could i be getting fuel cut of some sort? There's no lag or stumble right when it starts to boost, but why would i be reading such a low number on that gauge ? I'm a 95 manufactured in dec. of 94, there's no way i'm OBD2. What gives?

Also, if you have the instructions that come with the vortech fmu, i lost mine and would like to see them again, if someone could scan them and post them or email them to dyancey@prosrm.com, i'd appreciate it. If i hooked it up backasswards, would my car even run?

-DarkOne
I'm so bad, i should be in detention.

______________________________
If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/