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Top 2GNT Technical Turbo/Nitrous Tech topic #109581
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Subject: "DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)" Previous topic | Next topic
Tired2Nov-28-12 09:20 AM
Member since Sep 23rd 2012
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#109581, "DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)"
Nov-28-12 09:26 AM by Tired2

          

So, I hesitate to spend an extra $50 on a missing link for my turbo 2gnt since I plan to megasquirt it in the next few months... that $50 will cover both IAT and CLT sensors I need for MS!

The other Fuel cut defenders people sell are nice, but also run ~$50 shipped.

Since I just needed to clamp the voltage at around 4.7v so the ECU does not see boost, I wanted to try out the zener diode method I had seen online.

The problem I saw is that most people just bias a diode between the MAP output signal, and ground. (Flat part of the Diode symbol pointing toward signal, not grond)


MAP Signal --- |< --- GND

The problem with that method is that it assumes the MAP output is high impedance and is not capable of putting out enough current to blow the diode. I think in practice this is okay, but using an unknown current supply (my variable power supply), the amount of current I allowed at 5v made massive swings in actual voltage at the diode output. Over a certain current (near the rated current of the diode), the diode started getting hot.

To keep that from happening, I calculated the current handling of the diode I had, and it looked to work best around 50-120mA of current. So, I did the little bit of math (V=IR) to find out I needed about 10 ohms of resistance. I used a 15 turn Pot to dial it in, because I planned on testing other resistances. The higher the current through the diode, the less the output voltage 'tracked' the input voltage.

I wish I had some scope shots of a voltage sweep, but my scope broke

So, essentially what I eneded up with is a circuit that intercepts the MAP output, runs it through a 10ohm resistor, and then to the diode:

(grn/yl wire) (resistor) (diode) (blk wire)
MAP Signal -------10 OHM------ |< ------ GND
|
Map Output -> |


This limits the voltage to 4.7v, and track the input pretty close through the rest of the range.

I've verified that it tracks, and clamps, but I have not really run the motor with it yet. Of course, the active methods using an op amp and analog comparator are much better, but this should do in a pinch, and keep from over currenting the MAP with a direct short to ground like other diode based DIY FCDs do.

Anyway, feedback is welcome on this, I just saw no mention of a load limiting resistor in other designs, and not much mention of any DIY setups at all.

The diode I used is a 1N4732A 4.7v 1W @ $0.31 ea.
Any 10 Ohm resistor should work okay if it is big enough.
For a 4.3v clamp, a 1N4732A works.

If you want the FCD selectable for any reason (enable/disable), simply put a switch between the diode and ground. Open switch = stock operation.

Also, I ran out of heat shrink, so don't judge

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD), Global Ruler Of All ThingsDarkOne, Nov-28-12 10:35 AM, #1
RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD), AdministratorStar Turbo Talon, Dec-03-12 03:55 PM, #2
      RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD), Tired2, Dec-04-12 03:56 PM, #3
           RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD), Slo2g, Dec-05-12 12:34 AM, #4
                RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD), Tired2, Dec-05-12 08:57 AM, #5
                     RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD), Rtistyk, Dec-30-12 05:06 PM, #6
                          RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD), Tired2, Feb-08-13 10:20 AM, #7

Global Ruler Of All ThingsDarkOneNov-28-12 10:35 AM
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#109582, "RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)"
In response to Reply # 0




          

Nice work.

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AdministratorStar Turbo TalonDec-03-12 03:55 PM
Member since Oct 21st 2003
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#109583, "RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)"
In response to Reply # 1




          

That design and schematic is a copy of the one that a member of Turbododge forums. Next time dont claim someone elses work as your own.

  

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Tired2Dec-04-12 03:56 PM
Member since Sep 23rd 2012
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#109584, "RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)"
In response to Reply # 2
Dec-04-12 08:34 PM by Tired2

          

Haha, nice feedback.

I never claimed I invented the zener diode clamp, nor this implementation of it. I was simply trying to fill an information gap in this forum and the 2gnt knowledge base it contains. The fuel cut defender info I found on this forum, and any information I found pertaining to MAP voltage clamping in general typically negates the current limiting resistor.

As mentioned, negating that resistor assumes a lot about the output impedance of the MAP. I reported real world findings from my MAP sensor on the car this forum is based around.

From what I have seen from my brief time on this forum, it is lacking people who really want to help with anything. This topic was intended to give back some information to someone like me just getting into this 15 year old vehicle who would run into the problems I had trying to research a cheap way to work out a FCD. I guess now I know better.

Also, I'd like to see a link to that forum post. I guarantee my words are my own, as is the photo, and my ASCII schematic.

It is too old to edit now, but Above I meant "1N4732A" for a 4.3V version.
I think that yellow/green wire is actually 'yellow with a black stripe'

  

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Slo2gDec-05-12 12:34 AM
Member since Feb 10th 2006
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#109585, "RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)"
In response to Reply # 3


          

You should put this in the wiki....

  

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Tired2Dec-05-12 08:57 AM
Member since Sep 23rd 2012
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#109586, "RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)"
In response to Reply # 4


          

I will consider it once I've done some more testing on the car. It is still going way lean into boost, but I have other issues I think. It is whining about a bad injector circuit on Cyl2. I need to ohm it out and check the wiring.

  

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RtistykDec-30-12 05:06 PM
Member since May 26th 2012
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#109587, "RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)"
In response to Reply # 5




          

Yeah nice writeup. The result looks exactly like the FCD I bought (after cracking open the housing). Could have easily saved some money there.

  

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Tired2Feb-08-13 10:20 AM
Member since Sep 23rd 2012
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#109603, "RE: DIY Diode Based Fuel Cut Defender (FCD)"
In response to Reply # 6


          

So, I need to update this thread, hopefully people will read down to here if they want to do this, since I can't edit my original post..

I realized while ripping out all my old AFC neo crap that at atmospheric pressure (car turned off), the voltage at the MAP was actually more like 3.65v, NOT 4.7v.

I never really found the pressure vs voltage curve for the MAP sensor, but I think if you do this you'll have better results with a 4.3, or even less for the Zener diode.

I'm working on megasquirt on my car anyway, so this is useless, and so far I have only $300 in my MS setup, and the car runs. To see videos of my conversion, search "Evan's Megasquirt Build" on youtube, I'm documenting the process there.

  

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