I have created a tubular turbo manifold. It will fit a GT35R or any S-cover turbo on a 2.4 swapped car.

I have one all ready to go to the TIG welder. Is anyone else interested in me making an exact copy and sending it to the TIG welder at the same time?





Still have to clean up the edges here and there, bevel them all, and clean everything, then tack it all up and get it to the tig welder. Its being held together by shoving 1.25" PVC in the runners in those pics. Its hard to tell from the angles, but the merge collector is high angle and equal length to each runner. The second runner is the shortest, the fourth the longest. All bends are the normal long radius, 2.25" CLR. No cheater cuts anywhere. That little spot of rust on the stainless is due to some contamination - will have to clean that off really well. And the tacks you see there are coming off, its going to get cleaned really well with tools only being used on stainless, etc. I will put a wastegate provision on it as soon as I finalize placement.

So, any interest?

Looks pretty good. Isnt it fun designing your own manifold?

That one kind of reminds me of like a 4g63 manifold.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

send it to josh - turbo8u - my homie runs sick beads

edit: looks pretty fuckin sick by the way!!

That is nice. Interest depends on fitment and price as always.

So, to anyone who is interested, this is what the price is going to be if anyone wants one:

$575 shipped.

It has 1/2" flanges, and will be professionally tig welded/backpurged. It will include a wastegate from the collector towards the passengers side for a 38 or 44mm gate, your choice.

It will take 1 week after the flange gets here to make, and 1 more week to weld. I'll order the flange from the CNCer when you order - but i am not the CNCer - so i cannot promise you that the flange will be here in 1 week. It should take 1 to 3 weeks for it to get here, so the total construction time will be 3-5 weeks.

I'm going to hold off taking mine to the welder until I make any others that need to be made.

This manifold was sold for $800 IIRC


So I think it's not that bad of pricing. All of the other questions about this manifold are answered above.

Any takers? PM or Email me.

Originally posted by pghsebring

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST Looks pretty good. Isnt it fun designing your own manifold? That one kind of reminds me of like a 4g63 manifold.

Well, i'd prefer to have bought one, considering i had to buy a welder and a bunch of consumables, a horizontal bandsaw and an expensive premium blade, carbides to grind with, piss around with spare flanges getting it right (and destroying those flanges in the process), buying way too much stainless so that i didn't run out (and ruining half of it). I had also bought an expensive carbide tipped chop saw blade - and found out after 2 or 3 cuts that they don't last very long. So honestly, this wasn't exactly fun. But now that i know how to do it and have all the tools i could reproduce it more reasonably than the total cost I have spent this far. Its based more on these: South Florida Turbo manifold inline pro manifold lovefab lovefab DCR Guys have run 9's and 10's on all of those manifolds above. The goal was to have a full size high angle merge collector and the shortest runners possible for spool up. I also wanted to avoid unnecessary "up then down" bends which are bad for flow. I rotated the angle on the merge collect and made all the paths as smooth as possible while still maintaining a high angle merge collector. I considered/mocked up manifolds such as this: But decided that the direction I went in would flow better due to the proper merge collection, and no "up then down" bends. I chose good merge collection at a high angle to the turbo and shorter overall length, over a more equal length runner.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Any bend in the tubes slow down the velocity of the exhaust pulse Mike. The fewer bends the faster the velocity will be.

Now i'm not trying to say that you can't run 9's or 10's with your manifold, i've seen it done. Differences here aren't going to be major. Just pointing out the ideas I went by. Most people use ramhorns when they need the turbo flange to be so high that a manifold like mine with a high angle merge collector isn't practical, like in a lot of hondas. They prefer extra bends and longer runners to a crappy merge collector, cause a good merge collector is more important.

Stuart

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Actually it is mike. You may not realize it but it is.

Here is an example that isnt related to cars. We know that the higher the pressure of the gas the more resistance a bend can affect the gas flow. The lower the pressure = less effects of a bend. Simple logic.

Now take Natural gas which is pressurized to 22 inches of water IIRC? Basically its a low enough pressure that you can barely hear is flowing through an opening of a pipe. In a 1/2 ridgid pipe a 90 degree fitting places the same resistance as 10 feet of pipe. So if you have 10' straight pipe and 3 90 degree turns in your run, you will have 40' of resistance to your garage heater. How do I know this? Close friend is HVAC certified.

Now apply this to a exhaust pulse which moves with more than 10 times the magnitude and speed. That 90 degree turn you think is insignificant is quite significant. I dont like to get into vector diagrams/explanations like Stuart because lets face it, you (anyone) arent going to stay attentive long enough for a discussion on a simple automotive forum. Now Stu didnt say your manifold wouldnt work well but the less bends you have, the stronger exhaust velocity your going to achieve and the end result is a much stronger torque angle on the turbine of the Turbo. I dont expect you to understand torque angle which is why I am not going into it but it is a critical factor of any turbines performance. Torque angle in a turbo is the same in operational terms as the torque angle factor of a steam generating plant. If you know anyone who works in a fossil generating plant Mike, ask them.

Terry

Well, heres a little question:

Does anyone think that there could be a better way to route the piping for a better manifold or is this the best it gets for our car with the turbo in the location I put it? Can anyone come up with a design that is going to create more hp, all else being equal, with only changes made to the manifold?

And like i said above I'm not going to deny that one can run 9's or 10's on mike's manifold, cause i've seen it done, nor am i saying that Terry's position is wrong. I'm switzerland on this.

I'm just looking for design optimization on mine (given the available sch 10s long radius ss pipes to make it with), and also want to know if anyone is interested in me making a copy for them.

Also, what I really wish is that I could get ahold of some better flowing pipe bends...for example, when optomizing the design on a pipe bend one engineering dept came up with this design:



Notice how the outside of the bend is closer to a rounded off corner than to maintaining a parallel wall to the inside corner.

Also another company came up with this for a bend (program started with design 1 and in four steps came up with optimal solution of design 4):



Once again the outside corner got bigger...

I wish I could get some of those for bends to use, except for the very last bend, in which case i'd use this:



Those straighten the flow coming out of an elbow - so that it isn't up against the far wall heading into the turbine. And they're available in 316L sch 10 1.5" long radius butt weld...although I can't find them for sale anywhere.

More info on those:
http://www.fluidcomponents.com/Sales%20Brochures/Vortab/vorelpumppaper.pdf

http://www.vortab.com/SalesOffices.htm

To find a place that sells that stuff near you.

My Blog

Stuart, I am not disagreeing with you by any means. I was merely trying to explain to Mike why the bend are important and not insignificant like he believes. Honestly I have worked with the attempting to locate a gt30r under the hood and still maintain an equal length manifold and its damn near impossible without rerouting the water pipe and dealing with a tight radius tubing. Sched 10 makes tight radius even more difficult.

Your design is very well done considering you have no cheater cuts. Equal length based on my personal efforts will result in a long tube header placing the turbo to the drivers side. I hate the design which is why you dont see me with one.

Terry

Newb question, but what exactly is a "cheater cut"? I've noticed that phrase in a couple threads now and haven't really understood what makes something a cheater cut and what doesn't.

Mike D
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-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

Hey Mike,

Just playing devil's advocate here, so don't take it personally, but...

How can you be sure yours flows so well? You can obviously estimate that it'll flow relatively better than, say, a log-style manifold; but how are you assuming it flows "well?"

Second, how can you trust the dyno to tell you the manifold is flowing well? The dyno numbers will only tell you the cumulative result of all the mods you recently did. As far as I see it, the only way to really have a good idea of flow is by using a flow bench (for empirical data) or CFD analysis (for theoretical, but very likely data).


-http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

Originally posted by VelocitaPaola
Hey Mike, Just playing devil's advocate here, so don't take it personally, but... How can you be sure yours flows so well? You can obviously estimate that it'll flow relatively better than, say, a log-style manifold; but how are you assuming it flows "well?" Second, how can you trust the dyno to tell you the manifold is flowing well? The dyno numbers will only tell you the cumulative result of all the mods you recently did. As far as I see it, the only way to really have a good idea of flow is by using a flow bench (for empirical data) or CFD analysis (for theoretical, but very likely data). -http://www.symtechlabs.com/-

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

ill weld it for you

divided flange would have been cooler IMO

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

96 Black ESi
91 Red TSI AWD (RIP)
02 WRX


"turnin wrenches for nine hours in the pouring rain, just to get the beast up and running again"

Aerospace Certified TIG welder for Precision Castparts in Portland, OR.

JoshSpair.com

Creative thinking? Ingenuity? Hell, It's just an obsession!



99 Eclipse GS turbo: MSpowered, everything custom built, 223.8 HP-199.8 TQ @8psi through auto-tranny. The first time around...

So, to anyone who is interested, this is what the price is going to be if anyone wants one:

$575 shipped.

It has 1/2" flanges, and will be professionally tig welded/backpurged. It will include a wastegate from the collector towards the passengers side for a 38 or 44mm gate, your choice.

It will take 1 week after the flange gets here to make, and 1 more week to weld. I'll order the flange from the CNCer when you order - but i am not the CNCer - so i cannot promise you that the flange will be here in 1 week. It should take 1 to 3 weeks for it to get here, so the total construction time will be 3-5 weeks.

I'm going to hold off taking mine to the welder until I make any others that need to be made.

This manifold was sold for $800 IIRC


So I think it's not that bad of pricing. All of the other questions about this manifold are answered above.

Any takers? PM or Email me.