welp, got all belts cept the timing belt off. trying to crank it over to TDC, the belt is stopping at something. if i put my breaker bar over the ratchet, i can get it if i put all my weight and try my hardest. it will turn for a few clicks of the ratchet then stop again. i talked to jeff over aim, he suggested take out spark plugs and try, same deal. car is in neutral and everything on the outside of the engine looks in place. i can tell that my auto tensioner is out of spec per the service manual, it is too far extended but is still working and the belt is staying tight. jeff suggested maybe the valves are bent or bending or at least that is what i am hitting, my only thought about that is why did i have such good compression if that is the case. i havent started the engine since the compression test. i am gonna run the test again tomorrow afternoon to see what my compression is. if it is still good, what the heck could it be? any ideas on things to try? im at a loss. thanks.
#9271, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *help*" In response to Reply # 3 Dec-05-04 10:55 AM by Diceman19
Originally posted by Jeff_99gs Just take the timing belt off, line up all the timing marks, and put the belt back on again with a new tensioner. That might work.
really? what if i get the cams opposite of where they need to be or something. should i pull the timing belt off, then move the cams some and then move the bottem end. the bottom end has the two center pistons up right now and maybe they are stopping against the valves.
what do i need to do to convert this to a non interferrence engine...
EDIT: this is what someone on tuners said to do.
"Use a big-ass screw driver to pop the rockers off of the valves, then the cam will no longer force the valves down as you rotate the motor. When the mark on your crank says you are at T.D.C. on #1, do the marks on the cam gears line up?"
is that a good idea? how hard would it be to get the rockers back on and how much work would i have to do to get them on? i dont really feel comfortable doing that by myself since i dont know dick about heads....
#9274, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *help*" In response to Reply # 6
Mark the belt with white or silver permanent pen. Release the auto tensioner and remove the belt. Set the timing marks up where they are supposed to be, and put the belt back on with a new tensioner. The whole point of the timing marks is so you can remove the belt and put new ones on without having to worry about where everything used to be. As long as they all line up you are fine. Make sure the lines you made on the belt line up perfectly with the correct marks on each of the pulleys and gears, etc.
Once you get it together again, see if you can rotate the assembly.
That is the best you can do without removing the head for now. Sorry.
#9275, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *help*" In response to Reply # 7 Dec-06-04 03:54 AM by Diceman19
i dont see how marking the belt helps. please explain more. if i pull the belt off, who cares if i get it back where it was... what if i mark the belt, then because of the fact that the pulleys are round, none of the marks line back up on the belt to the pulleys. me just dont understand. i just have a feeling that if i take the belt off, i wont get the engine back where it needs to be and will end up breaking something. probly already have, but at this point, i just dont want to touch it because i feel like i am gonna be spending money in the near future.(money i dont have BTW.)
if i were to do this, let me know if this would be the process. i would back off the bottom end some, move the cams to TDC or close to it, then move the bottem end? sound good? can i leave the balance shaft belt on? do i need to replace the tensioner? it is only 1 year old and has less than a few thousand miles on it. it was only in use from like november of 2003 to march or so of 2004.
this is so sacreligious to me. ever since i bought this car, it has alwasy been timing belt this and dont touch anything unless it is in TDC and such. now you tell me to pull it off and start cranking. guess i have moved on to advanced 4g63 201 now.
#9276, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *help*" In response to Reply # 8
Once the belt is removed you could spin one cam gear 500 times by itself and the oil pump sprocket a billion times. As long as the timing mark are lined up afterward, everything is okay. That is the entire point of the timing marks. They keep everything in check.
Marking the belt lets you know exactly which tooth was where on the gears. Trust me it makes sense when you start putting ti back together again.
The reason I said get a new tensioner is because you said it was out of spec.
Maybe one of your pulleys froze up or something. I really don't know what to tell you. I have never ever heard of anything like this before. I can only imagine something inside the engine in FUBAR.
#9277, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *help*" In response to Reply # 9
Originally posted by Jeff_99gs Once the belt is removed you could spin one cam gear 500 times by itself and the oil pump sprocket a billion times. As long as the timing mark are lined up afterward, everything is okay. That is the entire point of the timing marks. They keep everything in check. Marking the belt lets you know exactly which tooth was where on the gears. Trust me it makes sense when you start putting ti back together again. The reason I said get a new tensioner is because you said it was out of spec. Maybe one of your pulleys froze up or something. I really don't know what to tell you. I have never ever heard of anything like this before. I can only imagine something inside the engine in FUBAR.
the tensioner is out of spec because i didnt put it on "right" i just pushed the pulley as high i could get it then released the tensioner, i didnt have any rods pushin on the bracket to hold it down.
so when i start marking things, i should make tons of marks and that way at least a few of them are going to line up?
does my process sound about right for getting R done?
#9280, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *help*" In response to Reply # 12
was thinking about it again, i dont know how marking the belt will help me. when i mark them, they wont be able to line up again anyways because the pulleys will be turned differently. i dont know, draw me a picture or something because i aint seein it.....again....
#9282, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *help*" In response to Reply # 14 Dec-08-04 10:59 AM by HybriDSM
Marking the belt does one super important thing. It makes absolutely sure that you have the EXACT proper amount of teeth between the two cam sprockets. Because of the tension that is released when you take the belt off, when the belt goes back on, the belt is off by one tooth all the way around. By marking the belt and sprockets with a silver pen, when it all goes back on you line each up and make 100% certain that you are in correct placement with that belt on top, which in turn makes the rest if the belt 100% the same as when you took it off. It is the easiest foolproof way of getting it done.
Otherwise, you're just hopeing you have the proper amount of teeth. Chances are, to get that belt back on correctly on the cam gears, youll need a wrench to spin one cam gear a bit to line it up. Getting the top right makes the rest fall into place exactlty like you left it.
#9283, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *help*" In response to Reply # 15
i mean, i understand the reason that it should be marked, but i dont know how it will all fall into place since the cam gears are going to move around. i dont see how they will still line up after i move them. i am gonna talk to jeff here in a bit when he logs on. hopefully he can explain it to my non understandin butt.....
oh yea, now the silver car is not running too. i have 7k worth of cars in the garage and the only one that runs is the 500 dollar beater with 160k on the engine......
#9284, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *update*" In response to Reply # 16
got the belt off, everything at TDC, during making the "special" tool for pushing on the tensioner pulley bracket, a wound that i got on friday night at work broke open and started bleeding pretty good. it freakin hurts so i had to stop for the day. over 50% done with it though, just have to straighten the cams, tag the belt along the pulleys, and tighten everything down.
#9286, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *update* *update*" In response to Reply # 18
having trouble getting her lined up right. of course.... i got it lined up now but the intake cam outside mark is a half tooth high and i had to tweak the crank back a few hairs although it is still within the timing mark. i know this isnt right. i am gonna get a buddy to come over and tweak the cams while i try to put the belt on the oil sprocket. that is how we did it last time. i spent about 45 minutes on it, got sick of being pissed off.
#9287, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *update* *update*" In response to Reply # 19 Dec-14-04 10:53 AM by HybriDSM
The cams, like I mentioned before online, will need a wrench to hold the two cams (put the wrench on the big bolt that holds the cam gear on) in spec while putting the belt on. The natural tension of the cams will always be one tooth off. Using two wrenches and making an eiffel towe shape so you can hold them with one hand is one thing to visualize.
This is why you should mark the belt and cams with a permanent marker, so you can line it up perfectly again when putting the belt back on. There should be good pics on this process on vfaq.com.
#9288, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *update* *update*" In response to Reply # 20
part of the problem is, the wrenches dont line up like a tower. the exhaust came is way off to the left hand side or way to far in and crossing over the intake take wrench. either way, i gots a buddy comin over sat morning and we are gonna beat down on it like we did last year. shouldnt take more than fifteen minutes.
#9289, "RE: car wont crank by hand. *update* *update*" In response to Reply # 21
Cool. Well make sure you use the wrench technique. The whole bottom end can be lined up but the slightly off Cams will give you a headache without moving them slightly to meet everything up smoothly.
Two sets of hands are definitely preferred/necessary.
