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TeamDR1665May-02-12 10:17 AM
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#48238, "The Ultimate 2G DSM"


          

Assume money is no object and we have every tool we could ever need at our disposal.
Assume everyone who participates in this thread is on a team tasked with building the ultimate 2G DSM.
Assume I will be posing the same question on other forums and will be sharing the results on Gearbox Magazine.

That said, let's get started!

What will be this ultimate 2G DSM's greatest strengths and weaknesses?

GOGOGO

  

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Replies to this topic
RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Moderatorteklein, May-02-12 10:24 AM, #1
RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, freelancefool, May-02-12 10:42 AM, #2
      RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-02-12 10:46 AM, #3
           RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, freelancefool, May-02-12 10:48 AM, #4
                RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Moderatorteklein, May-02-12 10:49 AM, #5
                RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-02-12 10:53 AM, #6
                     RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Moderatorteklein, May-02-12 10:55 AM, #7
                     RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-02-12 10:58 AM, #9
                          RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Moderatorteklein, May-02-12 11:02 AM, #12
                               RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Fotowntalon, May-02-12 01:04 PM, #19
                     RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, freelancefool, May-02-12 10:58 AM, #8
RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, iamnotwhoiam, May-02-12 10:59 AM, #10
RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, freelancefool, May-02-12 11:01 AM, #11
      RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Moderatorteklein, May-02-12 11:06 AM, #13
      RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, iamnotwhoiam, May-02-12 11:23 AM, #14
           RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Moderatorteklein, May-02-12 11:24 AM, #15
                RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, iamnotwhoiam, May-02-12 11:36 AM, #16
                     RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-02-12 12:04 PM, #17
                          RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, iamnotwhoiam, May-02-12 12:06 PM, #18
                               RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-02-12 02:45 PM, #20
                                    RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, electrohead, May-05-12 02:29 AM, #21
                                         RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Fotowntalon, May-05-12 08:34 AM, #22
                                              RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, electrohead, May-05-12 12:26 PM, #23
                                                   RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Fallen4ng31, May-07-12 08:13 AM, #24
                                                        RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-07-12 08:25 AM, #25
                                                             RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Slo2g, May-07-12 09:13 AM, #26
                                                                  RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-07-12 09:15 AM, #27
                                                                       RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Slo2g, May-07-12 11:46 AM, #28
                                                                            RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, ez, May-07-12 01:55 PM, #29
                                                                                 RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-08-12 10:28 AM, #30
                                                                                      RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, ModeratorVX100, May-19-12 07:21 PM, #31
                                                                                           RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, 95_ESi_Person, May-20-12 08:56 AM, #32
                                                                                           RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-22-12 10:08 AM, #33
                                                                                                RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Moderatorjuan, May-28-12 01:44 AM, #34
                                                                                                     RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Fallen4ng31, May-28-12 04:02 AM, #35
                                                                                                          RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-28-12 12:04 PM, #36
                                                                                                               RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, Moderatorjuan, May-29-12 01:16 AM, #37
                                                                                                                    RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, TeamDR1665, May-29-12 09:10 AM, #38
                                                                                                                         RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM, fast420a83, Jul-13-12 04:05 PM, #39

ModeratortekleinMay-02-12 10:24 AM
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#48239, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Since this is 2GNT, I will assume all motor.

Right off the bat:

Use the Neon head. Create clearance inbetween the subframe and firewall for a Neon style long tube header. This will create way more potential in the amount of power that can be made.

I will think of more later

  

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freelancefoolMay-02-12 10:42 AM
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#48240, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 1




          

SPC control arms, JIC Coilovers, Prothane bushings, GS/GST/GSX boxed rear control arms, RMDSM swaybars, fresh lower control arms on the front end.

2* negative camber up front.
1.5* negative camber out back.
6.5* Positive caster.
0.0" Toe.

My Blog

  

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TeamDR1665May-02-12 10:46 AM
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#48241, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 2


          

Nice build lists, gentlemen, but what will be this DSM's strengths and weaknesses? Will this be some kind of track weapon? A street fighter? A grand tourer?

  

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freelancefoolMay-02-12 10:48 AM
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#48242, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 3




          

I like a weekend warrior. Something fun to tool around with at track days, but not so serious that it isn't fun to drive on the street. Something you can still drive to work if you want.

Solo I/Solo II events.

My Blog

  

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ModeratortekleinMay-02-12 10:49 AM
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#48243, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Originally posted by freelancefool
I like a weekend warrior. Something fun to tool around with at track days, but not so serious that it isn't fun to drive on the street. Something you can still drive to work if you want. Solo I/Solo II events.


This.

13 second all motor quarter mile, but its main purpose is a autocross and track weapon.

Weakness is obviously its straight line speed.

Strengths will be the suspension setup - not just JIC's, but Mullerized JIC's.

  

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TeamDR1665May-02-12 10:53 AM
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#48244, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 4


          

CLAY! Now we're talking.

This being 2GNT.com, do you guys think it should be all-motor? Part of me wants to see a well thought-out 2GNT, but it would also be interesting to see how 2GNTers would build a 4G63 (or any other engine)-powered DSM.

If you guys think a BMW straight-six mated to an RX-7 rear end would be the best bet, I'm cool with it. Of course, such designs kind of stretch the definition of DSM, but this is meant to be a fun project.

I've posted this on 2 other boards. It's like the ultimate virtual build challenge. LOL

  

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ModeratortekleinMay-02-12 10:55 AM
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#48245, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 6


          

Originally posted by DR1665
CLAY! Now we're talking. This being 2GNT.com, do you guys think it should be all-motor? Part of me wants to see a well thought-out 2GNT, but it would also be interesting to see how 2GNTers would build a 4G63 (or any other engine)-powered DSM. If you guys think a BMW straight-six mated to an RX-7 rear end would be the best bet, I'm cool with it. Of course, such designs kind of stretch the definition of DSM, but this is meant to be a fun project. I've posted this on 2 other boards. It's like the ultimate virtual build challenge. LOL


Im a purist. All motor all the way

It wont be fast in a straight line, but will be ridiculously fun in the twisties and you really cant beat burying the tach into 8500rpm's.

  

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TeamDR1665May-02-12 10:58 AM
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#48247, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 7


          

You guys are awesome.

What else do we need to think about in building the ultimate 2G DSM?

  

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ModeratortekleinMay-02-12 11:02 AM
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#48250, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Originally posted by DR1665
You guys are awesome. What else do we need to think about in building the ultimate 2G DSM?


No stock motor, lol.

Id want a 11:1 setup, balanced to 10000rpm. Moderate headwork (to keep some low end), Crane 22's, 54mm ITB's, long tube header, Megasquirt 3.

Quaife LSD in a 2001-2002 Neon ACR 3.94HD. Lightweight flywheel.

Equal length driveshaft setup (Either Corbin's or mine, he made both of them).

  

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FotowntalonMay-02-12 01:04 PM
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#48257, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 12




          

Originally posted by teklein
Originally posted by DR1665 You guys are awesome. What else do we need to think about in building the ultimate 2G DSM?
No stock motor, lol. Id want a 11:1 setup, balanced to 10000rpm. Moderate headwork (to keep some low end), Crane 22's, 54mm ITB's, long tube header, Megasquirt 3. Quaife LSD in a 2001-2002 Neon ACR 3.94HD. Lightweight flywheel. Equal length driveshaft setup (Either Corbin's or mine, he made both of them).


You said neon head right? So we got the ITB's in the front, then customize the hood/bumper so we have inlets channeling the air into them.

Customize that crank. Have it knife edged on the leading side, and a decent amount of metal (not a bunch) so it divides the oil along. Crank needs to be lightened all the rod journals lightened, gun drilled mains. and counterweight shaping equivalent to that of our magnum XL's(http://www.callies.com/crankshafts/magnum-xl/magnum-xl-small-block-chevy/). The crank should weigh around 20lbs if not less and be made out of 4330 forged, damn thing will be strong enough to be turning at 10grand. Crank will also me micro polished. This car will rev like no other.

Some nice Carillo light weight connecting rods would be nice as well. and a crank scrapper to boot.

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

  

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freelancefoolMay-02-12 10:58 AM
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#48246, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 6




          

Originally posted by teklein
Originally posted by freelancefool I like a weekend warrior. Something fun to tool around with at track days, but not so serious that it isn't fun to drive on the street. Something you can still drive to work if you want. Solo I/Solo II events.
This. 13 second all motor quarter mile, but its main purpose is a autocross and track weapon. Weakness is obviously its straight line speed. Strengths will be the suspension setup - not just JIC's, but Mullerized JIC's.


Straight line is fun, but I feel that is probably not the best for a heavy front wheel drive car. That's why I'm writing it out. I've driven Tim's car and I've driven a couple lightly modded turbo cars and Tim's car is by far the more entertaining to drive. Throttle response is just ridiculous.

Originally posted by DR1665
CLAY! Now we're talking. This being 2GNT.com, do you guys think it should be all-motor? Part of me wants to see a well thought-out 2GNT, but it would also be interesting to see how 2GNTers would build a 4G63 (or any other engine)-powered DSM. If you guys think a BMW straight-six mated to an RX-7 rear end would be the best bet, I'm cool with it. Of course, such designs kind of stretch the definition of DSM, but this is meant to be a fun project. I've posted this on 2 other boards. It's like the ultimate virtual build challenge. LOL


I think a higher compression 420A powered car is where we need to be. I'm going to limit myself in this discussion to the stock motor and transmission. I like the way it sounds, I like the layout and I feel that for what I would like to do it would be the best.

There is a reason my AWD car is still mostly stock. I like the response of the small turbo and I like how it feels right now. I do need to find something that makes a little more power with relatively quick spool time.

My Blog

  

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iamnotwhoiamMay-02-12 10:59 AM
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#48248, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 0
May-02-12 11:00 AM by iamnotwhoiam



          

-2.4 Turbo AWD
-Upgraded axles and LSD(s)
-Full true coil-over setup
-Top/Bottom strut bars/ tie bars
-Tubular suspension arms for beefiness, maybe lighter weight and fully adjustable
-Prothane bushing all around.
-Standalone ECU
-Full interior and accessories and upgraded stereo

Basically a DD/WRC type setup.

-Jason

97 Talon ESi-T (forever in progress...)


95 GS (Gone)
16.74@83.18mph
119.8 whp - 113.3 lbs/ft


2GNT #677
My Wiki Page: www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Iamnotwhoiam
Pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/iamnotwhoiam/Talon/

  

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freelancefoolMay-02-12 11:01 AM
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#48249, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 10




          

Originally posted by iamnotwhoiam
-2.4 Turbo AWD -Upgraded axles and LSD(s) -Full true coil-over setup -Top/Bottom strut bars/ tie bars -Tubular suspension arms for beefiness, maybe lighter weight and fully adjustable -Prothane bushing all around. -Standalone ECU -Full interior and accessories and upgraded stereo Basically a DD/WRC type setup.


Why? What are you trying to accomplish?

My Blog

  

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ModeratortekleinMay-02-12 11:06 AM
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#48251, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 11


          

Originally posted by freelancefool
I've driven Tim's car and I've driven a couple lightly modded turbo cars and Tim's car is by far the more entertaining to drive. Throttle response is just ridiculous.


This is the only thing that matters in this thread now.



  

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iamnotwhoiamMay-02-12 11:23 AM
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#48252, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 11




          

Originally posted by freelancefool
Originally posted by iamnotwhoiam -2.4 Turbo AWD -Upgraded axles and LSD(s) -Full true coil-over setup -Top/Bottom strut bars/ tie bars -Tubular suspension arms for beefiness, maybe lighter weight and fully adjustable -Prothane bushing all around. -Standalone ECU -Full interior and accessories and upgraded stereo Basically a DD/WRC type setup.
Why? What are you trying to accomplish?


I want something that is quick off the line in a daily driving way and want it to ride on rails... i'm not much to go to any tracks, but i suppose i would prefer to do autocross vs 1/4 mile stuff. I want torque from the 2.4 turbo and the awd and lsd will help put all the power to the ground. Also for turbo I would be looking at 10-15 psi... nothing too crazy as this will need to stay dd.

I guess what I would be looking for is taking say something with a v8 such as a mustang which has good low end hp for fun and tying it into our dsm suspension strengths.

weaknesses would be that the cars are old, and there will need to be some custom fabrication, but that would also be a strength as well

-Jason

97 Talon ESi-T (forever in progress...)


95 GS (Gone)
16.74@83.18mph
119.8 whp - 113.3 lbs/ft


2GNT #677
My Wiki Page: www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Iamnotwhoiam
Pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/iamnotwhoiam/Talon/

  

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ModeratortekleinMay-02-12 11:24 AM
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#48253, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 14


          

Originally posted by iamnotwhoiam
Originally posted by freelancefool
Originally posted by iamnotwhoiam -2.4 Turbo AWD -Upgraded axles and LSD(s) -Full true coil-over setup -Top/Bottom strut bars/ tie bars -Tubular suspension arms for beefiness, maybe lighter weight and fully adjustable -Prothane bushing all around. -Standalone ECU -Full interior and accessories and upgraded stereo Basically a DD/WRC type setup.
Why? What are you trying to accomplish?
I want something that is quick off the line in a daily driving way and want it to ride on rails... i'm not much to go to any tracks, but i suppose i would prefer to do autocross vs 1/4 mile stuff. I want torque from the 2.4 turbo and the awd and lsd will help put all the power to the ground. Also for turbo I would be looking at 10-15 psi... nothing too crazy as this will need to stay dd. I guess what I would be looking for is taking say something with a v8 such as a mustang which has good low end hp for fun and tying it into our dsm suspension strengths. weaknesses would be that the cars are old, and there will need to be some custom fabrication, but that would also be a strength as well


Meh, I see where you are coming from - but all youd have to do is buy a GSX and swap a 4G64 bottom end in .

Ultimate 2g DSM on 2gnt.com should be all motor IMO

  

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iamnotwhoiamMay-02-12 11:36 AM
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#48254, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 15
May-02-12 11:39 AM by iamnotwhoiam



          

Originally posted by teklein
Originally posted by iamnotwhoiam
Originally posted by freelancefool
Originally posted by iamnotwhoiam -2.4 Turbo AWD -Upgraded axles and LSD(s) -Full true coil-over setup -Top/Bottom strut bars/ tie bars -Tubular suspension arms for beefiness, maybe lighter weight and fully adjustable -Prothane bushing all around. -Standalone ECU -Full interior and accessories and upgraded stereo Basically a DD/WRC type setup.
Why? What are you trying to accomplish?
I want something that is quick off the line in a daily driving way and want it to ride on rails... i'm not much to go to any tracks, but i suppose i would prefer to do autocross vs 1/4 mile stuff. I want torque from the 2.4 turbo and the awd and lsd will help put all the power to the ground. Also for turbo I would be looking at 10-15 psi... nothing too crazy as this will need to stay dd. I guess what I would be looking for is taking say something with a v8 such as a mustang which has good low end hp for fun and tying it into our dsm suspension strengths. weaknesses would be that the cars are old, and there will need to be some custom fabrication, but that would also be a strength as well
Meh, I see where you are coming from - but all youd have to do is buy a GSX and swap a 4G64 bottom end in . Ultimate 2g DSM on 2gnt.com should be all motor IMO


true... but I'm thinking from the 420a platform which I think is a bit better than the 4g63 or at the least different.


however.. i can see the All motor position as well.

perhaps then... same idea as above, but remove the turbo and up the CR to say 11:1 on the built 2.4 along with going the awd route.

Maybe to be even crazier: go AWD with a reoriented motor... not sure if our engine bay could do this with accessories, but thats what I would want.

Or... swap in a boxter flat four with AWD... ie transplant the WRX drive-train into our cars body


ok... so I really just want the new Scion FR-S (AE86 platform)

-Jason

97 Talon ESi-T (forever in progress...)


95 GS (Gone)
16.74@83.18mph
119.8 whp - 113.3 lbs/ft


2GNT #677
My Wiki Page: www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Iamnotwhoiam
Pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/iamnotwhoiam/Talon/

  

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TeamDR1665May-02-12 12:04 PM
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#48255, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 16


          

Haha. All-motor 2.4 does sound tempting.

Other players have suggested any DSM which actually runs and does not leak anything would be superior. Haha.

  

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iamnotwhoiamMay-02-12 12:06 PM
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#48256, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 17




          

Originally posted by DR1665
Haha. All-motor 2.4 does sound tempting. Other players have suggested any DSM which actually runs and does not leak anything would be superior. Haha.


oh... i thought the whole leaking part was a perk and provided reliability... ie if you saw leaks it mean you still had some oil/fluid in there.

-Jason

97 Talon ESi-T (forever in progress...)


95 GS (Gone)
16.74@83.18mph
119.8 whp - 113.3 lbs/ft


2GNT #677
My Wiki Page: www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=Iamnotwhoiam
Pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/iamnotwhoiam/Talon/

  

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TeamDR1665May-02-12 02:45 PM
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#48258, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 18


          

Originally posted by iamnotwhoiam
oh... i thought the whole leaking part was a perk and provided reliability... ie if you saw leaks it mean you still had some oil/fluid in there.


Absolutely. My sentiments, exactly. Saves you money on oil filters, too. Oil isn't in the engine long enough to get dirty. (Or flushes dirt and contaminants out of the engine in the course of regular operation.)

  

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electroheadMay-05-12 02:29 AM
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#48268, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 20


          

I would have to think outside of the box with this.
Straight line:
3.8 V6 from a 2006+ Eclipse and a Rippmods supercharger. With the extra weight in the front, launches should be a bit easier. Plus the torque from the added displacement would help pull the car down the track... Well, as long as you add slicks.
Track:
4B11 from the Evo X with a modded twin clutch tranny to keep the car front wheel drive. With an aluminum block reducing weight and an over-built design, it would kill on the track. Keeping the car front wheel drive would eliminate weight and the need to add more power to gain the same acceleration on a road course.
Street:
420A, of course. Ported and polished head, 10.5 to 1 compression built engine, turbo utilizing water/meth setup and running E85. Quaife diff, full coilovers, sway and strut bars, amd Evo Brembo brakes to help acceleration, handling, and braking. Full suede interior to give the car a high-end feel. With close to 290,000 hard-driven miles on my car, I believe in the 420A as a great reliale engine to beat up on the streets. Plus, I love the exhaust note.

  

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FotowntalonMay-05-12 08:34 AM
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#48269, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 21




          

If you ever think v6 in an unlimited money situation at least go GTR engine

97 Talon ESi 14.943@91.35MPH N/A!
"If you need someone to provide an itemized build of materials and a flowchart to walk you through every build-related question you will need to answer at each step of the process, you shouldn't be playing with cars. "-Driggs

  

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electroheadMay-05-12 12:26 PM
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#48270, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 22


          

I figured keeping engines in the Mitsu family would maintain it still being a DSM of sorts.

  

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Fallen4ng31May-07-12 08:13 AM
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#48274, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 23
May-07-12 08:14 AM by Fallen4ng31



          

An AWD converted to RWD, powered by a 3-liter twin turbo BMW straight 6 from a 335. Relatively quiet, deceptively quick, and wonderful street manners.

1998 Eclipse RS-T - Totaled 4/23/09 -
1998 Eclipse GST - Stroked 2.3l, HX40 fed: Build in progress
2010 Subaru Outback Limited

I hate hipsters.

  

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TeamDR1665May-07-12 08:25 AM
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#48276, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 24


          

Great ideas, gents. Thanks! This is fun.

  

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Slo2gMay-07-12 09:13 AM
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#48277, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 25


          

Keeping the 2gnt platform going,

A Neon ported all to hell with some nasty cams, something similar to the dougie 292/292 cams but with lobe and shaft weight reduction and also made of titanium. +1 mm Titanium Valves with bercopper-beryllium valve seats,CNC ported and all CC'd to have the same flow rate. For the pistons it would be a 17:1 beryllium based and be connected to a Titanium rod in a EDZ block but destroked to a 2.2 for better piston to rod angle ratio and would rev until it stopped making power. The transmission would be a NVT850 SRT tranny, built to the gills with a Quaife diff and DSS stage 5 axels. The suspension would be all done up along with metal "bushings" everywhere so deflection is not an issue. Then it would have ITB's(forward facing since its a neon head) at 72mm throttlebodies and a long tube header coupled to a open dump, no need for exhaust! I'm sure I can come up with some more but that about does it for now since I at work

  

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TeamDR1665May-07-12 09:15 AM
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#48278, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 26


          

@slo, that's a serious piece of hardware you just described.

What would it be like to live with that car every day?

PS: If you're not going to listen to us, sir. You are.

  

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Slo2gMay-07-12 11:46 AM
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#48279, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 27


          

It would be pure magical, I forgot to mention as well, a full floating fuel rail with a direct port nitrous spraying into the velocity stacks of said ITB's. It would be running methanol so a seperate fuel cell would not be needed to contain and race fuel and what not. If I had a car like that I would probably go to the garage and stair at it in awe! It would be a BLAST to drive, maybe not streetable for some but thats in the eye of the driver. I would drive it everywhere, and when the high end materials started to fatige I would replace it all and start over because money is not an issue . I would imagine it would be a INSANE car both in the HPDE form, drag form, autocross form, really what ever. Of course some suspension adjustments would be done from set up to set up. In my current mindset I would have a hard time even putting the head on because of how much just the valve seats cost, but never the less it would be quite a mean set up. Maybe one day if I win the lotto you will see this set up but untill then its all just hopes and dreams.

  

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ezMay-07-12 01:55 PM
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#48280, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 28


          

Start with a RS, remove engine/trans/gas tank/exhaust system/smog equipment/radiator, replace all panels with CF, light wheels, light seats, lexan windows, target weight 1500 lbs. Then add EVdrive 350kw motor to drive front wheels and 350kw motor to drive rear wheels. 610 ft/lbs of torque, 940hp (with a 160 lbs electric motor). Now for the weight - Add 50kwh of lifepo4 cells to the car, and a 10kw solar panel on the garage to provide enough power to daily drive long distances purely on sunlight.

2gnt: '99 RS-T, killed by a toyota, pending rebuild...
Daily: Volt
Daily #2: '99 EVG ebike- STOLEN by PEDRO

  

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TeamDR1665May-08-12 10:28 AM
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#48285, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 29


          

Oh snap. 2GNT EV. Reminds me of this one from a few years ago...

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/10/custom-all-electric-mitsubishi-eclipse-for-sale-on-ebay.html

  

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ModeratorVX100May-19-12 07:21 PM
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#48304, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 30
May-19-12 07:31 PM by VX100



          

I like the different ideas here. Money no object would certainly be needed for some of them, especially turing a 2G into some kind of performance EV. Nice idea actually, you can get it to be AWD, F front is gas engine, rear has electric motors, just have to get them to agree with each other.

Ok, here it goes, since you said money no object. Some of these are in other people's ideas (good ideas indeed, that is why I am including them!) but here is the full workup. A few items in here (at the end of each paragraph) are the really "money no object" parts.

This car will be all motor, very high performance, but well rounded, can be used for anything. Might not be super fast but we'll do our best to get as much power as possible without making it a drag racer only.

The car: A 2GNT, 97-99 (sorry I like the look of those years better), a GS as the extra trim makes it look a little better than the RS and I like the LED low spoiler so no turbo hoop, car is fully loaded, it will still have AC, power everything, sunroof, and yes all of this will work properly. The car will be repainted, the stock Sarronno Red (color code R82) naturally as this is the best color of any eclipse, ever, period, no discussion allowed. No macco "ambassador special" here, a high quality paint job, then the front of the car will be covered with that clear protectant layer that protects from stone chips because this car is going to be street legal and still possible to use as a daily driver. But, in a nod to the RS eclipse, the mirrors and door handles will be black as I think that look breaks up the red color nicely. And, all of the body panels that can be made out of carbon fiber will be carbon fiber for weight savings (hood is a given): front fenders, outside door panels, I think the hatch will have to remain steel because I don't want any lexan windows. And here is a money no object part: the entire chassis will have all the seams completely welded to increase structural rigidity. One guy in new england did this to his 2G turbo car and I'm sure it was expensive but it really will help the resistance to bending and twisting.

Interior: Interior is going to be refurbished so it looks better than when the car rolled off the assembly line, higher quality fabrics on the floor and seats (sorry no leather, I am not a fan of leather) and somehow we're putting in heated power seats. In the grand scheme of things heated seats should be quite feasable compared to the performance ideas. I'd go with the very rare (especially for a car that isn't an RS) black interior panels (like how my RS looks) but they would be a GS interior so that means no hard plactic trim on the doors. Also, new speakers and head unit, an in dash changer (I'm sure this is possible), sattelite radio (why not at this point, built into the head unit of course) a good sound setup (I'll leave the details of the sound system to the experts, of which I am not one), but no trunk engulfing amps and sub woofers, we can have them but it has to be light and reasonable; I want good sound but not a rolling boom box, and as an absolute must welcome to 2012, the headunit will have bluetooth and a usb port so your phone and any mp3 player will work with it. The sound setup will be tuned for the car to get the quality right, and to reduce any weird resonances.

Suspension and Brakes: The car will need 17", maybe 18" wheels, I haven't decided. Forged and as light as possible of course. 225 tires, that should be wide enough for the weight, high performance summer tires (as it will be a daily driver but it will never see snow again ) brakes big enough front and rear to fit into those bigger wheels. If the car has ABS great, if not no problem. Carbon ceramic setup of course, at least 4 piston up front if not 6 piston fixed caliper, dual piston out back, sliding caliper ok here. Upgraded springs, only 1" lower, not too low, and adjustable shocks (tokicos or AGXs or equivalent). Upgraded anti sway bars of course, strut tower braces front and rear, camber adjustment kit too (for the track), lower tie bars. Oh, and I almost forgot, every suspension component possible (uprights, upper a-arms, lower links...) is rebuilt to the same dimensions but made out of forged aluminum to reduce overall weight and unsprung weight. Money no object.

Transmission: 5 speed manual, I think the stock ratios will do, Quaife LSD of course, lightened flywheel, upgraded clutch (not too stiff to push though) upgraded axles just in case.

Engine:
All motor, 420A, balanced and blueprinted, 12 to 1 compression on forged pistons and rods (we can do this, see surprise idea below) with a forged knife-edged crankshaft, moderate port work to the head and radius honed valves, not too big of a port job to keep bottom end and well rounded performance, stainless steel valves, no wait sodium filled titanium (heheh) +1mm larger than stock, a moderate camshaft (stage 2 or stage 3 crower, well if you consider stage 3 moderate). Custom made intake manifold made with long and short runners, with bypass valves to the short runners which open at high rpms. Aluminum underdrive pulley (and AFX copy would be nice), long tube header (as long as we can get in the standard configuration, unless we move things around, we'll put that on the table as an option), engine can run to 8500 rpms if not higher. The entire exhaust, sans the catalytic converter (high quality, high flow cat, remember still a street car) in other words the long tube header and the entire catback, is made from titanium.

Here is the kicker.... direct injection. You said money no object, so somehow mod the head and somehow get an ECU that can control a direct injection setup. Of course this means the fuel setup needs to be changed to something that can handle the higher pressures. And, an upgraded ignition to handle it all. If you need to rip it out of a car that has a DI setup, with enough $$$ it can be done. The direct injection will make everything better, more power and fuel economy, and it can run at a higher compression too (again more power and economy). Getting the tune right for all driving will probably be just as costly and time consuming as setting it up. However, this car could be quite powerful and still driveable with direct injection. I couldn't begin to guess how much HP, but with the intake, a not too crazy port job/cams, and direct injection it should have good power everywhere int he RPM range.

Best I can come up with for now. I'm sure I missed a few things but feel free to add.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

  

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95_ESi_PersonMay-20-12 08:56 AM
Member since Sep 16th 2002
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#48305, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 31


          

A car that doesn't rust out.

__________________________________
-Ryan

  

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TeamDR1665May-22-12 10:08 AM
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#48309, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 31


          

Direct Injection. Now THERE'S an interesting idea. Surely some mad scientist gearhead out there is trying to figure that out for an older vehicle without swapping the entire engine.

Well-played, Todd!

  

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ModeratorjuanMay-28-12 01:44 AM
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#48310, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 33


          

2GNT with Howell 2.2 stroker 420A for daily driving, $2,399.95.

AMS EVO IX crate motor installed midship driving the rear wheels, $14,359.95 (plus an undetermined $$$ in engineering costs)

Expression on the face of the other guy after firing up the 4g63 at the second stoplight, priceless!



  

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Fallen4ng31May-28-12 04:02 AM
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#48311, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 34
May-28-12 04:03 AM by Fallen4ng31



          

Originally posted by juan
Howell.


Just because money is no object, doesn't mean that time no longer applies. Wouldn't you want to get the car completed BEFORE your kids are shopping around for your retirement home?

1998 Eclipse RS-T - Totaled 4/23/09 -
1998 Eclipse GST - Stroked 2.3l, HX40 fed: Build in progress
2010 Subaru Outback Limited

I hate hipsters.

  

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TeamDR1665May-28-12 12:04 PM
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#48313, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 35


          

LOL.

I think, if money were no object, I could afford to pay Dino to build it in his brewery, I mean dungeon, I mean garage.

gearboxmagazine.com/2012/05/the-ultimate-dsm/

  

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ModeratorjuanMay-29-12 01:16 AM
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#48314, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 36


          

fine. How about this one instead:

DSM Graveyard stage 1 crate motor, @2,999.99.

(obviously I've been out of the loop for quite a while)...


-juan

  

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TeamDR1665May-29-12 09:10 AM
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#48315, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 37


          

LOL.

I've heard more bad than good about DSM Graveyard lately. I think I'd put them in the same box as Howell.

Now that the game is over, I figure I can share my own idea.

99 Eclipse Spyder w/ 2Gb Talon conversion front/rear, RWD conversion

420A-powered, running 10:1CR under a poly-quad head to get the most out of the staged overlap from a set of modified Crower 2 cams. Dual-plane intake manifold with long runners to increase torque down low, fat secondary runners to allow more volume up top under boost. Car would probably run a GT28RS for maximum response on the street and in the corners. Everything would be controlled by MSnS. Trans would probably be sourced from an old RX7 turbo, rear end would be Toyota for more gearing options.

Come to think of it, that's not really extreme, is it?

Okay. Replace the unitized structure with a T45 tube frame and carbon fiber monocoque tub to get the weight down to just under a ton with 2 passengers and full tank of fuel.

  

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fast420a83Jul-13-12 04:05 PM
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#48413, "RE: The Ultimate 2G DSM"
In response to Reply # 38




          

I would have these people build and swap this evo motor in my 2g!!! http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1575817

Double check all your coolant and oil lines....., before you take off and see a cloud of smoke behind you!

  

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