Hey guys and gals, have a steering issue i've been wrestling with for a bit and thought someone here might be able to shed some light on the issue. Also i did an extensive search on the board before posting.

When I am driving down the road at any speed I feel through my steering wheel the car pulling to one side then the other. Very similar to when you hit a puddle on one side and the car kinda pulls that way. Whenever I'm on the roade and there is a slight groove in the road the car will pull that way. It will pull left or right, it's not picky. When going over real bumpy roads the wheel shakes in my hand, if there is a decent bump the steering wheel wants to jerk out of my hands. When i put the car on jackstand and bring it down the issue lessons. There is no looseness in the steering although i've notice that sometimes the steering wheel is straight with the wheels and at other times a bit off. Performed the test where one side of the car is up the other down, no play in the steering. no leaks or low fluids. Belts are new and not too tight or loose. Steering is very light, not hard. The inner and outer tie rods are ok, no broken boots. Also feels like i turn the wheel more to get the tires to turn if that makes any sense. The car has about 85k on it.

The car is lowered, has a camber kit, was aligned. Once the issue started, i replaced the tires, had them balanced, replaced the lower balljoints, front struts, made sure everything was secure nothing broken or loose. Still the issue continues. Tues I am getting the wheels realigned to see if maybe it got out of wack.

Anyone at all come across this issue or have some way of testing other things to pinpoint the issue? Any suggestions will be appreciated. If the allignment doesn't do the trick i will most likely replace the rack.

thanks in advance
Carmelo
97 Talon
Texas

I had a similar issue, but no wheel jerkyness. It was the alignment man half assing the alignment. A computer software gave him the specs for camber and caster for a 96 with 16" wheels, but nothing for toe. He didn't adjust toe at all. Going to another alignment shop sloved my problem. Good luck.

95 GST | So-Cal

Thanks for the advise bro. Plan on going tomorrow morning to get another alignment. Hoping that will fix all the problem, but i have my reservations. Anymore input by anyone would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

Texas

its probably alignment, or the fact that when you lower a car like these you seriously fuck with suspension geometry. even if its aligned,etc.. its still different suspension geometry.

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

For some reason I don't think an alignment will do the trick but i'm really hoping it does. Just feels like there is something else wrong. I've never had a rack go out on me but i would think steering would be hard and there would be some sort of leak somewhere if the seals inside were messed up. There is none of that. I've driven cars with loose steering and bad alignments, never felt like my car feels now. Again i hope a simple alignment will do the trick but, if not, the rack is the only other thing i can think to change. The car has been lowered for a while and it was aligned for a while as well, this issue just sprung up one day while driving in the rain, now it's stayed. Feels like driving in the rain all the time. It sucks but hopefully once it's fixed my experience will help someone else.

Carmelo
97 Talon
Texas

Ok people I have an update on the issue I've been having. Since last I posted i've replaced the lower tie rod ends and had the car re-aligned and the issue still persist. Really don't know what else it could be other than the rack itself or the inner tie rods.

Has anyone on the board properly diagnosed issues with inner tie rods and/or rack? What were some of the symptons, what was the car doing or not doing? Any and all help would be useful. Right now i'm at my wits end. I've checked everything connected to the steering and suspension of the car including all motor mounts. Thanks in advance.


Carmelo
97 Talon
Texas

ummm...how are your motor mounts?? I, with my solid front and ES rear insert, experience alot of vibration...Also, a groove in the road will throw your car off anyway. Perhapse you are being a tad too paranoid about it?? I know it happens to me, or anyone with alot of cash into their ride.

Its really hard to diagnose suspenion/vibration issues via the web...you kinda have to be there to fell what the issue(s) is(are)

This is beyond vibration. I do have the solid motor mount, the rest are intact. Through the steering wheel it feels like someone else has a steering wheel and is trying to turn the car left or right. I drove my friends 2gnt with same set up and it's way different than mine. I've been told i'm paranoid, but this is a real issue. If anyone has diagnosed bad inner tie rods, what was the car doing or not doing? it would help pinpoint the issue or eliminate other possibilities. thanks again in advance.

Carmelo
97 Talon
Texas

Well the issue sounds dead on to be alignment...how secure do you feel about the competancy of the shop doing the alignment? Out of all the Rack and pinions i have replaced (was a mechanic) most of the time they were due to leaks or very hard steering. The rack and pinion only works on a lower pressure from the pump...it cant jerk the wheel from you....there is no way possible. For the pulling you can check your brakes...a hung up caliper can cause the pulling.

Are you getting a 4 wheel alignment? That could cause your issues as well!

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header/evo exhaust - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, ceramic intake, 450 Turbo injectors, SFMU/return line, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

The shop I just got the car re-aligned at is the preffered shop of all sport compacts around my whole area. They are the only shop that will even deal with lowered cars. The shop has a real good reputation for it's work, been around for years. This is the second alignment.

This issue is hard to discribe, you just have to experience it. The steering wheel is not so much jerked out of my hand, I can feel pressure through the steering wheel either right or left depending on the road. Not binding brakes cause it wants to go right or left. Also if i'm braking and say there is an imperfection on the road depending if right or left front tire hits it, the car might jerk in that direction. Like i said it's just real hard to describe it in a way that makes sense.

For those that have had to replace their inner tie rods, what was going on with the car that caused you to replace them? what do bad inner tie rods feel like when driving, how do you diagnose them? How about a bad power steering pump? The steering feels real light, not hard or anything. By the time i find what the issue is the complete front end of my car might be replaced..heheh

Thanks again, and thanks in advance.

Carmelo
97 Talon
Texas

everytime you talk about a problem you talk about imperfections in the road...i say its mostly in yer head dood. Imperfections, puddles, dead animals...they will all make your car handle erratically at times. Is it bad enough where you are gonna crash?? Is the steering wheel moving like half a turn when you hit them?? Or do you jus "feel" it. You will, naturally, get feedback in teh wheel from the road. Just my $0.02 USD dood. I think you are all set though

hahahah... bro that's what my friends say...hahaha I'm sure you've all had something wrong with your cars that no one else notices, but since you know your car you know it's not the norm. Let me see if i can explain it in another way. Say the road i'm on has kinda like ruts from all the heavy trucks that have been on them, normally you can feel them through the steering components and that is true, but my car wants to pull left or right depending which tire meets the imperfection first. feels like a tugging in the steering wheel, then feels like there is slack in the steering, then it might pull the other way. It feel like slack in a rope, like if something in the steering was lose, or maybe inside the rack there is a broken seal that fluxuates the pressure...i don't know! like i've said before you just have to drive it or experienced something similar. Maybe the steering gears are all jacked up, and i don't know if our cars have them or where they are. thanks in advance for any input, and thanks so far to everyone that has posted. Seems like i m the one and only person on this board that has come across this problem..hehehe why, o why me!?!? lol

Texas

then its quite possible its something inside the rack and pinion...i am not sure if you can actually open em up and check the insides...but i guess it would be worth a shot...But still dood...again you say its on a rutted road :p

Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician

Well, the alignment was just done and it's the second one, tires are almost brand new, no uneven wear. The half shaft theory is one i haven't even considered since the boots are intact, no clicking or anything. Also why did you replace your inner tie rods? what kinda symptons did your car have? what was your car doing before you replace the half shafts? Thanks alot for the input


Carmelo
97 Talon
Texas

Normally, you can feel the play on bad inner tie rods. Try taking the tie rod end out of the knuckle on one side, then try to push and pull on the inner tie rod and feel for play, then check the other side.

If you have a bad cv joint, and one side is not turning smoothly it can hang and cause vibration and pull.

Joel Baldridge, ASE Certified Master Technician, Audi Certified Expert Technician

Well before i changed out the tie rod ends on the driver side i could twist the hek out of the tie rod but associated it with the tie rod end. now there is no play, but i haven't tried with the car lifted up. Is that the kinda play you mean? When you say remove it from the knuckle you mean remove the tie rod end and then shake the hek out of the rod right? The drive shafts pull like that under active steering or at any point specially when there are ruts in the road and whatnot? When i actively steer left or right the issue doesn't come up. Thanks alot, this has been real helpful, 2gnt always is. Thanks in advance.

Carmelo
97 Talon
Texas

___________
Black 96 GS

-Manny

2 different shops have aligned the car. It's not toe out in my opinion. The steering on the car feels like a cadillac, real light to the touch hardly any connection with the road like it used to be. The input through the steering wheel i get is not common, but the steering itself is extremely easy, too easy for our cars. Like a floaty feeling, kinda like if you load the back end of your car up and the fron end is high up, feels like that, but with the pull.

This is something you just have to experience...lol I've described it over and over, and everyone that has posted has really been helpful, but without driving the car, or without me experiencing the same thing you are describing this issue is going to be hard to solve. I'll end up replacing one thing after another until i find what the hek is wrong..haha

What do you guys think about this. If i remove the p/s belt and the car returns to normal steering then the issue would point towards either the pump or rack. If the issue remains then something loose or ate the hek up is the issue and it would exclude the pump and rack. Does that in any way make any sense. Is it even logical?

Thanks in advance for any input, and thanks to those that have already posted.

Carmelo
97 Talon
Texas

if i remember correctly...the rack would still be used without the belt on...but the pump would not. So, it could eliminate the pump. It would also make the steering wheel react less, and slower...so i would hate to see you think its the pump and it not be.

Thats my $0.02 USD IMO