#102790, "What would you like to see for the 420a?"
Hey guys just trying to get some feedback here.. are there any parts that noone makes that you would like to see offered for the 420a? We have been thinking about doing a tubular cast turbo manifold and some other goodies but seeing everyone wants something different we figured we ask the people who know the best! Im open to any suggestions!
#102808, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 1 Jan-25-07 06:38 AM by ConceptIllusions
We actually have an accessory pulley set that will be released very soon, and there is someone on this board that is already working on a heat barrier gasket for the 420a We will probably be making a better intake manifold once we get our cnc heads designed.. keep the ideas coming guys!
#102812, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 3
I like the idea of an intake manifold. But I have to say that it would have to be either a MUCH better velocity stack design than the venom or OBX or just a composite lower plenum that will prevent heat transfer/ heat soak. the upper half of our manifolds support a ton of intake volume if you have a TB that can flow it. But Heat really screws with the flow characteristics and air density. Composite Lower plenum would resolve this and give us better throttle response, Especially for NA's.
-Kevin
________________________________________ 95 Eclipse RS - Rolled 96 Eclipse GS - Traded 95 Eclipse GSX- Sold 01 Blazer LS 4.3/5spd dropped and clean DD 88 Camaro RS 361 CID with a 6spd and a bar 10 second street car on motor.
#102813, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 4
Theres money to be made if you can fab a tubular manifold that is proven to flow well and is comapitable with various turbos. Fitment and clearance are of extreme importance here as well.
#102814, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 5
Originally posted by xcasbonx Theres money to be made if you can fab a tubular manifold that is proven to flow well and is comapitable with various turbos. Fitment and clearance are of extreme importance here as well.
As well as the material it's made of so we don't have to worry about it cracking on us.
An intake mani that is actually worth a damn would be great.
I don't know if you could do this or not, but coming up with some numbers for custom cams would be excellent as well. Most people are using the stock cams while boosted because the cams that are available suck ass for boosted cars.
#102824, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 1 Jan-25-07 05:14 PM by foggy45
Originally posted by talon749 an intake manifold gasket that dosnt transfer heat
as soon as i get the gasket transfered to CAD and sent to Solid Works ill be cutting a few different gaskets out of Virgin PTFE for ALL 3 gaskets in our manifold on one of my CNC mills then ill get pics and temps results then put them up for sale. looking to maybe be in the 40-50 range really depends on material cost, thicknesses used, and how many gaskets ya want
______________________________________ ______________________________________ "Don't fear the weapon, fear the soul of the warrior using it." "My CEL only goes off when i remove my battery."
Best sum up of working on a 2GNT DR1665- "#5. Spike that motherfucker on the garage floor and grab a beer. You deserve it."
Ahhhh Priceless . . . eclipse982nrRST "its actually lightish red" RoninEclipse2G "yeah, they already have a color for that... it's called PINK"
#102825, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 0 Jan-25-07 05:52 PM by DeanoD
adjustable 25mm front/rear anti-sway bars, with custom adjustable end links. Make them out of chromoly steel and have them powder coated black.
You will have to make a custom mounting bracket due to the bar size, so go with some thick steel brackets with steel bolts and locking nuts.
I would match the form of the stock fwd bars, because the aftermarket are a little different. I do not like how my suspension techniques rear sway have my end links at an extreme angle.
I think if they were tougher than hell, you could sell them for $400 plus shipping per set.
Check out Hellwig anti-sway bars for a good example of a quality product.
97 RS(PTE SC-61, Built Long Block, Electromotive Tec 3)It's Here!
#102836, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 8 Jan-26-07 07:43 AM by jack_of_trades
Maybe a fuel rail that can incorporate an aftermarket 2G turbo rail mounted FPR?
How about an adapter that goes from the fuel pump outlet threads (14mm x 1.5 inverted flare 45° SAE,straight thread I believe) to a -6AN fitting. The person who makes a coupler for the fuel pump outlet will sell plenty!
Clear, removable cam gear cover?
Jamie- -AUTOMATIC turbo'd 95 Talon ESI@8psi (stock internals)14.0sec=1/4 mile
#102897, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 17 Jan-29-07 10:03 PM by VelocitaPaola
Those are next on the production list, and will also be available direct through 2GNT or possibly though CI's store. The patterns are there, we just need to get them cut.
They're anchored at six points to avoid vibration and they're laser cut for a clean edge. They can also be painted for a sleeker look. Polished stainless units may be in the cards for the future...
If there's anything else you'd like to see be produced, just post it here. Perhaps you'll see it on the market in the near future.
#102847, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 10
Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon there are adapters already for the fuel pump outlet and I have been making fuel rails for some time. Both ideas are already out there. Terry
Hmm, not readily available to the mass market since I haven't seen much on the fuel pump outlet adapter at least. Hit me up with a spot to get some info if you have it available.
Jamie- -AUTOMATIC turbo'd 95 Talon ESI@8psi (stock internals)14.0sec=1/4 mile
#102893, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 13 Jan-29-07 05:32 PM by VelocitaPaola
I like the idea of the underdrive accessory pulleys... I can't wait to you get some in Shawn.
I have a CAD pattern of eleven (11) intake manifold spacers made of phenolic material at the waterjet cutter right now. They should be available very soon, both here and on Concept Illusions' website.
What do you guys think about heat shields for both offset (Star, Treadstone, etc.) and centered (Hahn) exhaust manifolds?
#102899, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 15
I still love the idea of a composite lower intake manifold already port matched to the upper plenum gasket and tapered slightly down to the head.
-Kevin
________________________________________ 95 Eclipse RS - Rolled 96 Eclipse GS - Traded 95 Eclipse GSX- Sold 01 Blazer LS 4.3/5spd dropped and clean DD 88 Camaro RS 361 CID with a 6spd and a bar 10 second street car on motor.
#102900, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 19
Originally posted by shazow1969 I still love the idea of a composite lower intake manifold already port matched to the upper plenum gasket and tapered slightly down to the head. -Kevin
I like that idea. Can it be molded of a heat resistant material to eliminate the heat resistant intake mani gasket idea?
Jamie- -AUTOMATIC turbo'd 95 Talon ESI@8psi (stock internals)14.0sec=1/4 mile
#102901, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 20 Jan-30-07 04:14 PM by VelocitaPaola
For durability and ease of production, it's probably best to stick with a thin walled aluminum piece, insulated with a phenolic spacer.
Composite (read plastic) manifolds are okay, but they've been known to crack with engine heat and cause some serious problems. Maybe for a consumer grade grocery-getter they'll work, but anyone who actually needs to upgrade their intake manifold for performance, should probably stick with aluminum.
#102902, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 21 Jan-30-07 04:12 PM by ConceptIllusions
The accessory pulley sets are near completion and will be sent out to a few members of this board for testing purposes, we will also get some dyno results, once everything checks in a ok we will start marketing them ..we are def starting to design an intake manifold as soon as we get some flow numbers with our cnc ported heads that way we gan get a proven power package put together for you guys who are running turbo setups,also once we can complete those items im sure a cast tubular turbo manifold will soon follow, Also this year we have have been working on a new 420a turbo kit other than our CI/Slowboy kit, It will feature a smaller street core and a mitsu flanged turbo manifold. Paul (VelocitaPaola)should be coming out with those heat barrier gaskets soon and hopefully we can help him out getting those heat shields plasma cut, im sure you guys could use a nice heat cover (i know i melted my cf hood by not having one) Be sure to check our site often for updates.. you guys have some good ideas so keep them coming!
#102903, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 21 Jan-31-07 03:07 AM by shazow1969
Originally posted by VelocitaPaola For durability and ease of production, it's probably best to stick with a thin walled aluminum piece, insulated with a phenolic spacer. Composite (read plastic) manifolds are okay, but they've been known to crack with engine heat and cause some serious problems. Maybe for a consumer grade grocery-getter they'll work, but anyone who actually needs to upgrade their intake manifold for performance, should probably stick with aluminum.
Compoites are very strong and personally I have yet to see a well constructed one crack due to heat since they don't transfer heat. Case in point GM Gen 3 small blocks (LS motors) come with composite Manifolds. It' been prooven time and again that the LS6 intake makes better power than it's aluminim aftermarket replacements. The best Stock style upgrade available for these motors is the F.A.S.T. 90 with a Nick Williams 90mm TB. This is a composite intake. Composites don't transfer heat, and there for as long as they are cast with a sturdy structure you don't even have to worry about them cracking.
-Kevin
________________________________________ 95 Eclipse RS - Rolled 96 Eclipse GS - Traded 95 Eclipse GSX- Sold 01 Blazer LS 4.3/5spd dropped and clean DD 88 Camaro RS 361 CID with a 6spd and a bar 10 second street car on motor.
#102904, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 23 Jan-31-07 05:36 AM by VelocitaPaola
It's kind of funny you used GM intake manifold as an example, because those are exactly the manifolds I was referring to in my other post. There have been numerous instances in which those manifolds shatter, causing catastrophic engine fires. These weren't even high mileage cars... in some cases, they had 30,000mi. or less when the manifolds failed.
While plastics don't transmit heat as well as metal, that doesn't mean they don't absorb heat; they are still very prone to failure under extreme conditions. Now the FAST manifold may be a different situation, but even so, it is made of a proprietary blend of polymers unavailable for other manufacturers.
Plus, the LS intake manifolds are quite different in design than the 2GNT... that is, 2GNT manifolds are load-bearing, as they support their own weight, plus the weight of connected intake piping. LS manifolds, as you know, rest on top of the head, nestled nicely in between the two cylinder banks.
Frankly, a well engineered, cast aluminum, or even magnesium, intake manifold coupled with a heat barrier gasket set will be just as effective as a composite manifold.
#102905, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 24 Jan-31-07 06:21 AM by shazow1969
The most common cause of what you are referring to is not heat or load on the intake it's a nitrous back fire. Which is why the F.A.S.T intakes are made with a blast plate so as not to damage anything if and when one occures.
As for the load bearing part it would not be too difficult to incorporate structure into the casting, or even supply support brackets for the upper planum to the head. Not to mention there are already brackets that bolt the upper portion of the lower plenum to the block.
I agree that the Aluminum intake manifold is tested and prooved for our motors. I'm just saying I'd like to see something different and see how well it works. If someone was to make one of these I'd be more than happy to test it. Both on the Dyno and at the track. The true test is HOT dyno pulls to see if it is doing an effective job of isolating heat on consecutive pulls. What's the harm in trying something new. You fail and learn from it? Sounds like an acceptable risk to me.
-Kevin
________________________________________ 95 Eclipse RS - Rolled 96 Eclipse GS - Traded 95 Eclipse GSX- Sold 01 Blazer LS 4.3/5spd dropped and clean DD 88 Camaro RS 361 CID with a 6spd and a bar 10 second street car on motor.
#102906, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 25
Originally posted by shazow1969 What's the harm in trying something new. You fail and learn from it? Sounds like an acceptable risk to me. -Kevin
Agreed. However, composites just aren't the direction my company is moving toward at this point. Perhaps in the future when we find a suitable injection moulder...
And, not to argue a moot point, but the manifolds I was talking about were on completely stock cars.
#102910, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 26
Ok Paul claims to laser cut the heat shields and CI claims to plasma cut them. Which is it...both methods are very different.
How about Fords composite intake on the 4.6L. They sell pretty regularily as replacements to all the ones cracking in District 2 squad cars and Willowbrook PD cars here in IL.
#102937, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 28 Feb-02-07 10:01 PM by ConceptIllusions
Plasma cutting isnt so bad when your making something such as heat shields, plasma cutters usually are off a few thousandths of an inch and leave a rougher side cut, but thats nothing that cant be cleaned up afterwards..it would def be cost effective and lead to a superb end result even compared to having them laser cut
#103158, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 30
Yeah I melted my cf hood too. damn thing cracked on the outside. I put some heatshielding on the inside and tried to wet sand the hood, looks better, but still need a new one. I would be interested in a hotside heat shield for my turbo unless I do the supra writeup and make one myself, and the manifold heat shield.
God, I need to stop spending money on this car!
Fully Built MS powered 99' GS Sport, Garrett T3/T04e 60 trim with one big ass intercooler!
#103159, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 31
Maybe a FPR bypass for the 95's with a 1/8" NPT inlet for a fuel pressure gauge? It'd be very easy to machine. I know the 95's are the only one's with this setup but I sure woulda paid a few bucks for a replacement to just pop in rather than having to mod my stocker.
Jamie- -AUTOMATIC turbo'd 95 Talon ESI@8psi (stock internals)14.0sec=1/4 mile
#103163, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 31
Originally posted by xceler8 Yeah I melted my cf hood too. damn thing cracked on the outside. I put some heatshielding on the inside and tried to wet sand the hood, looks better, but still need a new one. I would be interested in a hotside heat shield for my turbo unless I do the supra writeup and make one myself, and the manifold heat shield. God, I need to stop spending money on this car!
not to change topics here but dayum is your intercooler big...i thought mine was big...wow
#103173, "RE: What would you like to see for the 420a?" In response to Reply # 33
Originally posted by donnyb373
Originally posted by xceler8 Yeah I melted my cf hood too. damn thing cracked on the outside. I put some heatshielding on the inside and tried to wet sand the hood, looks better, but still need a new one. I would be interested in a hotside heat shield for my turbo unless I do the supra writeup and make one myself, and the manifold heat shield. God, I need to stop spending money on this car!
not to change topics here but dayum is your intercooler big...i thought mine was big...wow
#103316, "RE: Thermal Research and Development Exhaust for sell" In response to Reply # 38
Originally posted by iverson3270 I am a new person to this fourm but I have a Thermal Research and Devel. full exhaust for sell. It includes everything from the downpipe all the way back to muffler. I ran this on my 1995 Eclipse GS which was converted to the turbo GS. I ended up putting the Hahn Racecraft turbo on the GS. However, I no longer have the need for the Exhaust and I will let it go for a very reasonable price. If your interested please let me know thanks
Hey newbie, this isnt the place for you trying to sell stuff.
#103317, "RE: Thermal Research and Development Exhaust for sell" In response to Reply # 39
I think we can wrap this thread up.
CI or another member from this thread - Feel free to gather what CREDIBLE information we have in this thread and lets start a new thread in the Advanced section titled something along the lines of research and development of new 420A parts etc...for further technical discussion.
We will probably be making a better intake manifold once we get our cnc heads designed.. keep the ideas coming guys!
