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Subject: "Cam Selection"

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Max-Eclipse	Jun-20-05 08:23 AM
Member since Dec 08th 2004 527 posts,

#90657, "Cam Selection"

http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=162&

Ok, I know these will be rough at idle, but how exactly will it feel/sound? How bad?

My main thing is road course racing, and driving through curves, staying > 4000 RPM's most of the time... but it will be a daily driven car all the other times, so will the idle be too bad for that?

If you think those are to bad, what about the Stage2's ( http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=161& )? How rough will they be?

My goals for my car are changing a little bit... I'm totally building the engine, forged pistons/rods, better cams, Port and Polish head, tons of other stuff... plus turbo (most likely Turbonetics T3/T04E)...

What do you guys think?

Thanks

I've tried at DSMTalk and DSMTuners, and neither have givin me any kind of answer... I NEED SOME HELP PLEASE!

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Replies to this topic

RE: Cam Selection, Chamuko, Jun-18-05 09:22 AM, #1

RE: Cam Selection, Max-Eclipse, Jun-18-05 09:31 AM, #2

RE: Cam Selection, Chamuko, Jun-18-05 10:10 AM, #3

RE: Cam Selection, Max-Eclipse, Jun-18-05 10:21 AM, #4

RE: Cam Selection, cougar694u, Jun-20-05 02:48 AM, #5

RE: Cam Selection, mcgyvr, Jun-20-05 04:08 AM, #6

RE: Cam Selection, cougar694u, Jun-20-05 04:57 AM, #7

RE: Cam Selection, Team

Team

DR1665, Jun-20-05 06:58 AM, #8

RE: Cam Selection, cougar694u, Jun-20-05 08:03 AM, #10

RE: Cam Selection, CarbonFiberRST, Jun-20-05 07:22 AM, #9

RE: Cam Selection, cougar694u, Jun-20-05 08:05 AM, #11

RE: Cam Selection, Team

Team

DR1665, Jun-20-05 08:23 AM, #12

RE: Cam Selection, cougar694u, Jun-20-05 09:12 AM, #13

RE: Cam Selection, Max-Eclipse, Jun-26-05 10:19 AM, #14

RE: Cam Selection, eclpsmoneypit95, Jun-26-05 03:57 PM, #15

RE: Cam Selection, Max-Eclipse, Jun-26-05 07:15 PM, #16

RE: Cam Selection, GhostintheNight, Jun-26-05 08:49 PM, #17

RE: Cam Selection, cougar694u, Jun-27-05 03:17 AM, #19

RE: Cam Selection, 420a-Tnthewerks, Jun-26-05 10:02 PM, #18

RE: Cam Selection, prop7459, Jun-27-05 08:14 AM, #20

RE: Cam Selection, Team

Team

DR1665, Jun-27-05 11:03 AM, #21

RE: Cam Selection, WIDECLIPSE, Jun-27-05 11:37 AM, #22

RE: Cam Selection, eclpsmoneypit95, Jun-27-05 06:18 PM, #23

Chamuko	Jun-18-05 09:22 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3668 posts,

#90658, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 0

Thats why you finally found your way to the right place. Unlike those places though aomethings arnt tolerated. Ill assume your new. Next time search.

heres some links to get you going.

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=32&topic_id=91&mesg_id=91&page=

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=32&topic_id=1867&mesg_id=1867&page=

Member # 751

FOUNDER of the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I got kicked out after I refused to go Cow tiping) - Hehehe you know who this is for

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Max-Eclipse	Jun-18-05 09:31 AM
Member since Dec 08th 2004 527 posts,

#90660, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 1
Jun-18-05 09:34 AM by Max-Eclipse

Thanks for the links... I'll read through those... from what I've read so far, I might be changing brands, but either way (I've got other stuff to do now than read all that to find this) I really just need to know how bad the idle is gonna be with high performance cams like that? I've never driven/been around a "sport compact car" with high performance cams like this (because there is simple NO performace addicts around here... i know of no heavily modded cars around here... unless you consider a CAI heavily modded ) so what will it be like? Is it almost embaressing when idling because its so rough? Or is it just a little rough sounding, but still does ok?

Thanks

EDIT: Btw, I'm not really that new... I've had my DSM for a year almost (i got it when i turned 16, and I'll be 17 on august 7) and ive been on dsmtuners, here, and dsmtalk for pretty much the whole time...DSMTuners has a lot of A-holes... but a lot of really experienced and knowledgable people too... and some that are both ... I do, however, still consider myself a newb because I'm just now starting to mod the engine, therefor im not very experienced, and still have a lot of newbie questions...

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Chamuko	Jun-18-05 10:10 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3668 posts,

#90662, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 2

If you want an idle thats a little tame. stay away from the stage 3's. From what your telling me, its something that would make you feel un easy about em. Now since you dont have much experience with cams or cam gears ( if your gonna use em) then Stick with something a bit more mild.
I know you might not have much time but reading and really understanding this is something your gonna want to learn sooner or later. The seat of your pants means squat without knowing what your doing ( at least in theory if nothing else).

Member # 751

FOUNDER of the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I got kicked out after I refused to go Cow tiping) - Hehehe you know who this is for

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Max-Eclipse	Jun-18-05 10:21 AM
Member since Dec 08th 2004 527 posts,

#90663, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 3

Originally posted by Chamuko
If you want an idle thats a little tame. stay away from the stage 3's. From what your telling me, its something that would make you feel un easy about em. Now since you dont have much experience with cams or cam gears ( if your gonna use em) then Stick with something a bit more mild. I know you might not have much time but reading and really understanding this is something your gonna want to learn sooner or later. The seat of your pants means squat without knowing what your doing ( at least in theory if nothing else).

Yeah, I'm definatly gonna read it all (the thing that's taking my time right now is mowing the yard... we have a huge yard... it's a full days work to mow), however, I have read quite a bit about cams, and I do understand them pretty well... I'm really not worried about it sounding bad at idle... im mainly worried about it acting like its trying to die and stuff at idle... if it's going to be a real pain like that, i'll probably go with the stage 2's or equivilant

Thanks

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cougar694u	Jun-20-05 02:48 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#90717, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 4
Jun-20-05 02:50 AM by cougar694u

Originally posted by Max-Eclipse
im mainly worried about it acting like its trying to die and stuff at idle... if it's going to be a real pain like that, i'll probably go with the stage 2's or equivilant Thanks

The crower2's are drop-in's, meaning you don't have to change anything else. If you go to the crower3's, then you're gonna have to change the valve springs as well. With the right tools, this isn't that hard. If you don't have the right tools, it'll be a bitch to do with the head still on the car, or off, for that matter.

With the crower3's, you'll have a pretty lopey idle, but I don't think it'll be enough to where it won't idle. Your vacuum at idle will be significantly lower, so it'll run pretty rich. If it runs too rich, it may have trouble idling, but I don't think it'll be a problem. You could throw in an SAFC to help correct it if you've got an a/f gauge.

Personally, I'd go with the crower3's just because I like to go all the way with it. But like I said, you can't just throw those in, you have to change your valve springs also.

**EDIT**
Look into the Crower stage 2 turbo cams. If you plan on going turbo, these may be the route you want to go then.

~Luke
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2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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mcgyvr	Jun-20-05 04:08 AM
Old School 2GNTer 3121 posts,

#90718, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 5

if all your driving is under 4000 rpm's then stay away from the big cams cause they are great on the top end but not on the low end.
you want something that will give you power low in the band.

1998 dodge avenger 4 cyl AT
Mods are:
Not enough

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cougar694u	Jun-20-05 04:57 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#90719, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 6
Jun-20-05 04:57 AM by cougar694u

Originally posted by mcgyvr
if all your driving is under 4000 rpm's then stay away from the big cams

Originally posted by Max-Eclipse
staying > 4000 RPM's most of the time

"> 4000 RPM's" = greater than 4000 RPM's

~Luke
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1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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DR1665	Jun-20-05 06:58 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14692 posts,

#90731, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 7

I love the idea of the Crower 3 cams, but I hear they're worthless with a turbo and will let you down under 4krpm all motor. I really love my Crower 2s. Low end power is decent and they pull like mad all the way to 7800rpm. (I have supporting mods.)

I would go for the Crower 2s as a great cam for the NA car (possibly turbo in the future). Idle is nice and lumpy, but not overly so. More bubbly than anything else. I don't have any way to snag some audio now that the engine is broken in, but I have a video online somewhere from when she fired up for the first time in over 6 months. If I can find it, I'll PM you a link so you can hear it. It's sweet.

Luke, I remember reading that Crower 2/Crane 0016 is going to require upgraded springs. You disagree? I would think the increased lift/duration would put a strain on those stockers.

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cougar694u	Jun-20-05 08:03 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#90734, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 8

Originally posted by DR1665
Luke, I remember reading that Crower 2/Crane 0016 is going to require upgraded springs. You disagree? I would think the increased lift/duration would put a strain on those stockers.

It's arguable (I said the above statement without refreshing myself of the actual lift specs of the crower 2's). The crower2's are complimentary to Crane 12's. The only duration difference is 2* more duration on the intake with the crowers.

However, when you look at lift, it's different. The exhaust cam of the crower cams has less lift than the crane 12's. But, the intake lift is greater than the 16's.

Lift is the main thing that you need to look at when contemplating valve springs. With the 16's, 18's, crower 2 turbo's, & crower 3's, I'd say they're a must. You probably should upgrade the valve springs for the crower 2's, but I don't know that it is a must.

~Luke
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1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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CarbonFiberRST	Jun-20-05 07:22 AM
Donating 2GNT member 1368 posts,

#90733, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 5

Originally posted by cougar694u

Originally posted by Max-Eclipse im mainly worried about it acting like its trying to die and stuff at idle... if it's going to be a real pain like that, i'll probably go with the stage 2's or equivilant Thanks

The crower2's are drop-in's, meaning you don't have to change anything else. If you go to the crower3's, then you're gonna have to change the valve springs as well.

Great, I plan on getting the stage 2 turbo cams and everyone keeps saying you have to have upgraded springs, my dad said he didn't think that I would and now someone else confirms it... after I bought some...

Evo 8 - 12.3@113 circa 2009 (~330whp)
Now with BB Xona Rotor HTZ FP Red and ~450whp
2018 MSM Civic SI Ktuner TSP stage 1 w/ Honda hacked headunit.

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cougar694u	Jun-20-05 08:05 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#90735, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 9

Originally posted by CarbonFiberRST
Great, I plan on getting the stage 2 turbo cams and everyone keeps saying you have to have upgraded springs, my dad said he didn't think that I would and now someone else confirms it... after I bought some...

The crower 2 turbo cams have much more lift than the regular crower 2's, especially on the exhaust side. I'd say you need new valve springs for the turbo cams, and it's probably a good idea for the regular crower 2 cams.

~Luke
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1969 Cougar - 11.91 - 380HP
2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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DR1665	Jun-20-05 08:23 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14692 posts,

#90736, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 11

Good thread. Good read.

Are the C2 turbo cams widely available at this time? Seems to me they're still one of those products you have to know where to find them and who to ask about them. Then again, I haven't really done any cam shopping for a while now, so...

Thanks, Luke.

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cougar694u	Jun-20-05 09:12 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#90739, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 12

Originally posted by DR1665
Are the C2 turbo cams widely available at this time? Seems to me they're still one of those products you have to know where to find them and who to ask about them.

http://catalog.exileracing.com/product_info.php?cPath=215_248_223&products_id=513&osCsid=8d888182bdbc99038116f00a9dd19a19

~Luke
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2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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Max-Eclipse	Jun-26-05 10:19 AM
Member since Dec 08th 2004 527 posts,

#90926, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 13

Hey guys, sorry I've been EXTREMELY busy for a little while and haven't checked back in...

My engine is getting fully built, so I will be changing springs and stuff... it is getting turboed (Turbonetics T3/T40E Hybrid) so I will look into those stage 2 turbo cams.

Thanks guys

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eclpsmoneypit95	Jun-26-05 03:57 PM
Member since Mar 09th 2005 371 posts,

#90946, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 14
Jun-26-05 03:59 PM by eclpsmoneypit95

I would say exile racing is a good place to get these cams. I ordered my crower 2's from exile somewhere in the middle of may and i've had them in my car for about a week and a half. Exile would definetely be the route to go and I would also consider the C2's "widely available" It seems that the stage 2's are the way to go. I enjoy the bubbly (good choice of word btw) idle and the performance is very nice, and i would say that these are a low maintenance cam. A little fuel tuning should do you good though. Dont forget to have all of your supporting mods in place (intake, exhaust, etc.) so that you can benefit from any set of aftermarket cams.

edit: one more thing, use the search!

That blue car got me boobies once

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Max-Eclipse	Jun-26-05 07:15 PM
Member since Dec 08th 2004 527 posts,

#90954, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 15

Originally posted by eclpsmoneypit95edit: one more thing, use the search!

Yeah, I've already appologized for that. I just haven't had enough time to do a lot of reading lately (I've been averaging 2500 miles per week on the road for work... for the past month or two)

Thanks for the info

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GhostintheNight	Jun-26-05 08:49 PM
Member since Jan 25th 2005 170 posts,

#90959, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 16

Aright, so here's the question.

I also plan on buying new cams, and have read a good majority of the 19 page long thread about cams... Am pretty set on the crower 12's but here's the question. I also plan on turboing and in that instance, would like the turbo cams. Questions are ... 1. How would the turbo cam effect a NA engine? I'm planning on turboing, but not right awaay... dont have the money for it. So how would the turbo cams effect the NA engine... and 2. If i were to go with the Crower 12's, how would the 12's effect the turbo and the performance therein?

Essentially i want to buy only 1 set of camshafts, and have the best performance in both NA and turbo.

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cougar694u	Jun-27-05 03:17 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3381 posts,

#90961, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 17

Originally posted by GhostintheNight
Aright, so here's the question. I also plan on buying new cams, and have read a good majority of the 19 page long thread about cams... Am pretty set on the crower 12's but here's the question. I also plan on turboing and in that instance, would like the turbo cams. Questions are ... 1. How would the turbo cam effect a NA engine? I'm planning on turboing, but not right awaay... dont have the money for it. So how would the turbo cams effect the NA engine... and 2. If i were to go with the Crower 12's, how would the 12's effect the turbo and the performance therein? Essentially i want to buy only 1 set of camshafts, and have the best performance in both NA and turbo.

Stay away from the Crane 14's (Crane's Turbo Grind). I had them in my car, and they ran good NA, but the 12's will run better (both NA & FI).

NA, the Crane 12's and Crower 2's will be almost identical. The Crower 2 Turbo cams will run good NA, as well, but I think they'll do better than those two in a turbo application.

If you are going turbo, and there's no question about it, go with the Crower 2 Turbo's, you'll be satisfied, even NA.

~Luke
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2007 GSXR 750
1999 OZ - SOLD - 15.26 NA - 14.71 on 75 shot

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420a-Tnthewerks	Jun-26-05 10:02 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2004 2267 posts,

#90960, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 16

Originally posted by Max-Eclipse
I just haven't had enough time to do a lot of reading lately (I've been averaging 2500 miles per week on the road for work... for the past month or two)

Dude, that's insane. You've put on almost as many miles in 3 weeks than I have in a year. Is this in the 2g?

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prop7459	Jun-27-05 08:14 AM
Member since Mar 20th 2004 139 posts,

#90969, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 18

I have been looking for a good set of cams too, but you guys out there are not providing us with a run on the dyno. Also what is the peak tq given by the crower 2 turbo cams?

ner947 made some nice numbers with the stockers. Take a look
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=54&topic_id=958&mesg_id=958&page=

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DR1665	Jun-27-05 11:03 AM
Donating 2GNT member 14692 posts,

#90981, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 20

Originally posted by prop7459
I have been looking for a good set of cams too, but you guys out there are not providing us with a run on the dyno. Also what is the peak tq given by the crower 2 turbo cams?

Can't answer that question. It's all in the tuning and supporting mods. I hope to get her tuned and post up some dyno numbers before Christmas.

C2s will make a bigger difference on my engine than they will on one with BPUs and springs. Like I said, no answer to your question. Sorry.

Still. I can't wait to strap her down (tuned) and see what she does. To me, that's more important than track time.

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WIDECLIPSE	Jun-27-05 11:37 AM
Member since Apr 14th 2004 1528 posts,

#90985, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 21

I would still like to see about some custom cams. It doesn't cost that much more to make custom cams. And I would like to see some with some better gains, mainly for the turbo applications, from what they have now.

-Roman

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eclpsmoneypit95	Jun-27-05 06:18 PM
Member since Mar 09th 2005 371 posts,

#90999, "RE: Cam Selection"
In response to Reply # 22

you guys want dyno numbers? stay tuned (no pun intended), i will try to have them by mid-july, ive just got to order my safc (i know) and do a little fuel tuning. anyway, sorry to run of course, did we give you enough info to adequately answer your questions about choosing a particular set of camshafts?

That blue car got me boobies once

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