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Top 2GNT Technical Turbo/Nitrous Tech topic #100980
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pghsebringJul-27-07 06:58 PM
Member since Dec 05th 2004
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#100980, "Tubular Turbo Manifold"


          

I have created a tubular turbo manifold. It will fit a GT35R or any S-cover turbo on a 2.4 swapped car.

I have one all ready to go to the TIG welder. Is anyone else interested in me making an exact copy and sending it to the TIG welder at the same time?





Still have to clean up the edges here and there, bevel them all, and clean everything, then tack it all up and get it to the tig welder. Its being held together by shoving 1.25" PVC in the runners in those pics. Its hard to tell from the angles, but the merge collector is high angle and equal length to each runner. The second runner is the shortest, the fourth the longest. All bends are the normal long radius, 2.25" CLR. No cheater cuts anywhere. That little spot of rust on the stainless is due to some contamination - will have to clean that off really well. And the tacks you see there are coming off, its going to get cleaned really well with tools only being used on stainless, etc. I will put a wastegate provision on it as soon as I finalize placement.

So, any interest?

  

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eclipse982nrRSTJul-28-07 01:08 AM
Member since Mar 16th 2004
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#100982, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 0


          

Looks pretty good. Isnt it fun designing your own manifold?

That one kind of reminds me of like a 4g63 manifold.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

  

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2point4Jul-28-07 07:30 AM
Member since Jun 16th 2004
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#100983, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 1
Jul-28-07 07:32 AM by 2point4

          

send it to josh - turbo8u - my homie runs sick beads

edit: looks pretty fuckin sick by the way!!

  

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AdministratorStar Turbo TalonJul-28-07 07:56 AM
Member since Oct 21st 2003
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#100984, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 2




          

That is nice. Interest depends on fitment and price as always.

  

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pghsebringJul-28-07 09:03 AM
Member since Dec 05th 2004
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#100989, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 1


          

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
Looks pretty good. Isnt it fun designing your own manifold? That one kind of reminds me of like a 4g63 manifold.


Well, i'd prefer to have bought one, considering i had to buy a welder and a bunch of consumables, a horizontal bandsaw and an expensive premium blade, carbides to grind with, piss around with spare flanges getting it right (and destroying those flanges in the process), buying way too much stainless so that i didn't run out (and ruining half of it). I had also bought an expensive carbide tipped chop saw blade - and found out after 2 or 3 cuts that they don't last very long. So honestly, this wasn't exactly fun. But now that i know how to do it and have all the tools i could reproduce it more reasonably than the total cost I have spent this far.

Its based more on these:


South Florida Turbo manifold


inline pro manifold


lovefab


lovefab


DCR

Guys have run 9's and 10's on all of those manifolds above.

The goal was to have a full size high angle merge collector and the shortest runners possible for spool up. I also wanted to avoid unnecessary "up then down" bends which are bad for flow. I rotated the angle on the merge collect and made all the paths as smooth as possible while still maintaining a high angle merge collector. I considered/mocked up manifolds such as this:



But decided that the direction I went in would flow better due to the proper merge collection, and no "up then down" bends. I chose good merge collection at a high angle to the turbo and shorter overall length, over a more equal length runner.

  

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pghsebringJul-28-07 09:16 AM
Member since Dec 05th 2004
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#100990, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 3


          

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
That is nice. Interest depends on fitment and price as always.


Fitment? It will fit a S Cover turbo (GT35R, SC61, GT35, AMS "37R") or anything smaller with a t3 flange on a 2.4 swap - you just have to put the fans on the other side of the radiator. Does not hit the radiator. Does not collide with starter. We all have different solutions for the ps and ac but the turbo flange is slightly angled so that the downpipe will fit like a hahn v-band downpipe and not hit the ps using SRT4 ps mount. My ac is going back on with a custom aluminum mount.

Here is a mockup of where the two flanges sit in relation to each other:



And yes, it'll fit with a stock waterpipe - mine got bent into where the starter sits during shipping when i got the block so i cut it off and am coming up with something different there. I didn't realize it was bent until I had the engine in and was trying to put the starter in. Obviously that oil return is going to be different too - the CHRA is plenty high enough for a good gravity return. And the outlet for the turbo is high enough to 90 and not hit the crossmember.

Price? I have to call the 2 people I trust to tig weld this and find out how much they want, then i can give exact price.

Stuart

  

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eclipse982nrRSTJul-28-07 10:10 AM
Member since Mar 16th 2004
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#100991, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 4


          

Originally posted by pghsebring
Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST Looks pretty good. Isnt it fun designing your own manifold? That one kind of reminds me of like a 4g63 manifold.
Well, i'd prefer to have bought one, considering i had to buy a welder and a bunch of consumables, a horizontal bandsaw and an expensive premium blade, carbides to grind with, piss around with spare flanges getting it right (and destroying those flanges in the process), buying way too much stainless so that i didn't run out (and ruining half of it). I had also bought an expensive carbide tipped chop saw blade - and found out after 2 or 3 cuts that they don't last very long. So honestly, this wasn't exactly fun. But now that i know how to do it and have all the tools i could reproduce it more reasonably than the total cost I have spent this far. Its based more on these: South Florida Turbo manifold inline pro manifold lovefab lovefab DCR Guys have run 9's and 10's on all of those manifolds above. The goal was to have a full size high angle merge collector and the shortest runners possible for spool up. I also wanted to avoid unnecessary "up then down" bends which are bad for flow. I rotated the angle on the merge collect and made all the paths as smooth as possible while still maintaining a high angle merge collector. I considered/mocked up manifolds such as this: But decided that the direction I went in would flow better due to the proper merge collection, and no "up then down" bends. I chose good merge collection at a high angle to the turbo and shorter overall length, over a more equal length runner.


There is not a problem with up and down bends at all. That is what my manifold is that I designed and it flows excellant.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

  

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AdministratorStar Turbo TalonJul-28-07 10:52 AM
Member since Oct 21st 2003
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#100992, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 6




          

Any bend in the tubes slow down the velocity of the exhaust pulse Mike. The fewer bends the faster the velocity will be.

  

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pghsebringJul-28-07 11:47 AM
Member since Dec 05th 2004
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#100993, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 7


          

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Any bend in the tubes slow down the velocity of the exhaust pulse Mike. The fewer bends the faster the velocity will be.


Exactly. Observe:



can be expressed as

F = 2 A (ρv2/g + p) cos(θ/2) (1)

where

F = resulting force acting on the pipe bend (N, lb)

A = area of pipe (m2, ft2)

ρ = density of the fluid (kg/m3, lb/ft3)

v = velocity of the fluid (m/s, ft/s)

g = acceleration due to gravity (9.81 m/s2, 32.2 ft/s2)

p = pressure in pipe (kPa, lb/ft2)

θ = angle between pipes - bend angle

The angle the resulting force F makes upstream line of the bend can be expressed as

α = θ/2 (2)

where

α = angle the resulting force makes with the incoming pipe to the bend

(no, i did not write that - http://www.piping-toolbox.com/forces-pipe-bends-d_968.html )

and....



Coming in the top right, red is fast...going out the bottom left, green is not as fast and very little red left...slowed down.

  

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pghsebringJul-28-07 11:50 AM
Member since Dec 05th 2004
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#100994, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 8


          

Now i'm not trying to say that you can't run 9's or 10's with your manifold, i've seen it done. Differences here aren't going to be major. Just pointing out the ideas I went by. Most people use ramhorns when they need the turbo flange to be so high that a manifold like mine with a high angle merge collector isn't practical, like in a lot of hondas. They prefer extra bends and longer runners to a crappy merge collector, cause a good merge collector is more important.

Stuart

  

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eclipse982nrRSTJul-29-07 03:08 AM
Member since Mar 16th 2004
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#100996, "RE: Tubular Turbo Manifold"
In response to Reply # 9


          

Originally posted by pghsebring
Now i'm not trying to say that you can't run 9's or 10's with your manifold, i've seen it done. Differences here aren't going to be major. Just pointing out the ideas I went by. Most people use ramhorns when they need the turbo flange to be so high that a manifold like mine with a high angle merge collector isn't practical, like in a lot of hondas. They prefer extra bends and longer runners to a crappy merge collector, cause a good merge collector is more important. Stuart


Yea I know some slope does slow down exhaust flow, but not as much as you guys make it out to be, lol. Your manifold would be very nice for me if I hadnt made one already, haha.

And your collector is pretty much the exact same as mine.

-MIKE-

Stroked 2.2L

  

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