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Subject: "I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"

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gilee_8	Aug-07-06 08:34 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2377, "I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"
Aug-07-06 08:47 AM by gilee_8

Sup.
As I was talking to Matt in the other post and through email.
I should definitely need to turn on the Basic Setting->Codebase and outputs function->Neon/420A decorder to "neon/420A"
(I should have that option on in Megatune, because I connected my Tach pin to the Crank Position Sensor. not to the Tach wire. (I plan to run Spark later on)

But the problem is, whenever I turn on the Neon/420A setting, the engine won't start.
I also tried after the engine started and idling smoothly, then I turn the Neon/420A decoder on and burn it to the ECU, and the car died right away.

But I did the mod in this link: http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-neon.html for the v3.0 board. and I took out my MS today and double checked.

The ONLY thing I see different is, I don't have the C12 capacitor in there, because the assembly guide said don't put it in. So should I put that capacitor in to work? is there other wiring I should do?

Thanks guys.

Edit: here are the close up pictures of the input mod I made on my MS:

~~~~~~~~Modification~~~~~~~~
Performance: MegaSquirt v3.0 Fuel & Spark, 8.6:1 JE piston, Eagle Long Rods, SPEC III Clutch, EVOIII B16G, FMIC, Aeromotive 1:1 FPR, Walbro 255HP, 680cc Injectors, 2.5" DP, 3" Magnaflow Cat, 3.5" Greddy EVO CatBack, Greddy Electronic EGT,FUEL,BOOST,A/F gauges...
Interior: Racing Seats, Metallic Interior, 15-Speakers System, Keyless, Dynomat Insulated, Neons...
Exterior: 1999 Body with turbo wing, Halo Projector Headlight, 4300K HID, 17" Mille Rims, GSX Calipers...
Coming Soon: Water Injection, Redo Undercarriage, Repaint Exterior

$240 For New Complete GSX Calipers Kit (Calipers, Bracket, Shim, Pad, Bolts, etc) Email Me If Interested!

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Chamuko	Aug-07-06 10:09 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3668 posts,

#2378, "RE: I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"
In response to Reply # 0
Aug-07-06 10:17 AM by Chamuko

hmm. take a toothpick and run it between all the pins that are sodered on the underside. Are you sure there are no shorts due to solder,residue or leads that are too long?

also, in the pics in the link you provided, the caps above the ones you removed dont seem to be in there either, I have not finished reading the manual so I cant say for sure it that has anything to do with it.

Member # 751

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XtremeRS	Aug-07-06 10:21 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2379, "RE: I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"
In response to Reply # 1
Aug-07-06 10:24 AM by XtremeRS

Its hard to tell, but where is your 5v in going to the "optoIn" Cant really see it. One other thing, the underside of that board is covered in solder flux! You really need to clean that off really well. I use some electronics cleaner you get at radio shack. It comes in a aerosol can, with a bristle brush on the top. Just use that brush to gently scrub the entire board, while spraying out the solution through the brush. Then rinse the board with a gentle stream of warm water. Dry it off VERY well before powering up the board!! I use an air blow gun with low pressure to get all the water off, then let it sit for a few hours. You can also use that electronics duster stuff in cans as well. Just be sure to get all the small pin holes of the processor socket, and the db9 and db37 pins clear of water. You will want to remove the processor before you clean it though. Everything else can get soaked with water, it wont hurt it. If you still see a white haze on the board after cleaning, you didnt get all the flux residue off, so go over it again in the same procedure. Excessive flux residue can create very small shorts and all kinds of issues, so get it cleaned off.

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S16G @ 18 PSI/FMIC/Running on MegaSquirt II (Now with sequential
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gilee_8	Aug-07-06 10:30 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2380, "RE: I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"
In response to Reply # 2

Thanks I will clean the residue first and see how it goes.
so do I need the C12 Capacitor on the board for the 420A/neon decoder mod? coz the manual for v3.0 board: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/V3assemble.htm in step 50a (viii) it said leave C12 off. but the input mod list for the 420A/neon decoder page has the C12 in the diagram.

Thanks.

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XtremeRS	Aug-07-06 11:24 AM
Member since May 20th 2003 6329 posts,

#2381, "RE: I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"
In response to Reply # 3

If it shows it in the diagram, then put it in, it cant hurt. It prob helps stabilize the signal a bit anyway(less noise). So do you have the 5 volts going to the optoIn? I would make sure of this with a voltmeter.

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gilee_8	Aug-07-06 01:00 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2382, "RE: I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"
In response to Reply # 4
Aug-07-06 01:01 PM by gilee_8

I connected a wire to the 5V pin located in the proto area.
that should do it right? I will check it now with the voltmeter.

Now after driving the car the whole day, and over wekeend.
I am now certain that, because I didn't have the 420A/neon decoder turned on, the RPM is not stable when idling.

well, whatever the decoder is on or not. my RPM spikes up to 4K or 2K, or 8K at idling... causing the amount of fuel to be injected changed so much, it flooded the engine. that's why it keep dying during idling.

so you think this is caused by the 420A neon decoder?

BTW< just to make sure.
I only connect ONE WIRE to the Crank position sensor (located near the Alternator) correct? the blue and white wire? no ground or second wire needed right?

And I connect this signal to the TACH PIN in the relayboard. Right???

Thanks

EDIT, I just went to Radioshack to get the cleaning stuff. (last bottle) so I am cleaning it now and hope it will work.

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gilee_8	Aug-07-06 03:28 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2383, "RE: I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"
In response to Reply # 2

I won't say much this time!
but excited.

I went to buy the cleaner, and COMPLETELY cleaned the entire MS board.
it's like..SPOTLESS CLEAN!

I plug it back into my car, with 420A/neon decoder on, and it had hard time starting, but it started, and I drove 15 miles to my g/f place too!

But sadly, I look at the log, total of 14000 entries logged, but about 100 of the RPM column spikes over 5000RPM, about 8 of them spikes to 11,000 RPM. Anyknow know how I can fix that as well?

Thanks all.
And thanks again Matt, I will never think of cleaning the board will help this much!
Gil

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gilee_8	Aug-08-06 11:52 AM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2384, "More Help needed! --> NEON/420A Decoder CONTINUE!!! (pic inside)"
In response to Reply # 0
Aug-08-06 11:55 AM by gilee_8

This is the closeup pic I told of my entire MS v3.0 board with MS-I chip being used. Recently taken 8/7/06. It is used for Fuel only, so no spark is being added. This board suppose to be added the MSNS mod used for 420A engine: http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-neon.html

As you see, all the red cirled area is the place I did the mod!

Now, today, I went out after work, and I start up my car and shut it off over 100 times! and I see a problem after the last 5-10 times.

First, I got the 420A decoder working yesterday, (just luck) the reason it worked last night, I believe from my observation that I turned on the MS with my laptop connected with decoder off. then while it's connected (MS on, but engine off), I changed the decoder to on, and burn it to ECU, and without restarting MS, and start the engine, it fires RIGHT UP! The reason for this, I believe I know why, but need help to fix it! (after the decoder is on, all idling problem is gone, engine won't stall for no reason, everything is very good)

THIS IS WHAT I NOTICE! Can it be a MOD problem? or WIRING problem?
REMEMBER, everything works fine if I didn't turn on the decoder.
- When I have the 420A decoder on, then I turn on MS. From Megatune, the COOLANT TEMP will show 43F, ENGINE MAP will show 189kPa, and my THROTTLE in realtime display will show 98% ???

I notice this after I ran the car for about 1.5 hr, start, off and restart about 100 times. so the coolant temp is for sure VERY HOT! and without engine start, how can my MAP is 189kPa, and throttle is 98% and it stay constant no matter how much I step on the throttle...

So I turn off the MS, I restart MS, change the 420A decoder OFF. and restart MS again. The COOLANT TEMP will show 202F, ENGINE MAP will show 100kPa, and my THROTTLE in realtime display will show 0%!! Which is correct!

But if I start MS with decoder OFF, then change the decoder to ON and burn it to ECU and without restarting MS, the above values stay correct!

So I am thinking now, can it be because those Coolant Temp, MAP, and Throttle is all messed up, so that's why the car won't start?
With Decoder ON, it won't even FIRE at all! without decoder, it comes right up in 70% of the time (still need more tuning)

But if my car is running, and I switch the decoder ON, the idling will be great and car won't stall out anymore like the problem I had a previously! It just died at stop lights!

So can anyone tell me what I should do?
do I have to clean the board MORE?
Do I need a Ground wire for the crank sensor?
I connected DIRECTLY to the crank sensor, not from the ECU wire, can that be the problem?

For now, I can only drive my car with a laptop.
Coz I have to start the car, change the 420A decoder ON, burn it to ECU. drive to where I want, before I shut off, or wait till I restart, I turn off the decoder so I can start the engine again next time!

This is so unacceptable!
Please help!
Gil

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gilee_8	Aug-08-06 06:11 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2385, "Found more interesting stuff about the NEON/420A Decoder (pic inside)"
In response to Reply # 7
Aug-08-06 06:13 PM by gilee_8

For today, I basically get the car tuned pretty good (during regular driving with no boosting) And idling is great too but I have to turn on the 420A decoder inorder for idling to stable and not stall out.

Well, I found this very interesting!
I drove home today after the movie at mid-night, and I drove about 10miles home, after I get home, I turned off the car.

I went into Megatune, TURN OFF the 420A/neon decoder, and without the engine started, I restart MS. I go into the realtime window and take a look at the values, this is what I see!

The counter continue to count from 0 - 255.
Coolant temperate is right where it left off before I shut off my car, throttle position is 0 coz I didn't step on it, battery volt is right on the spot, and so on!

Then I go into Megatune, and set the 420A/Neon Decoder to ON (using the decoder) and I restart the MS without the engine started. And I look at the realtime window! What The Hell is wrong with this thing???

The Counter doesn't move (always stay at 0), throttle is almost max, voltage is completely wrong, coolant temp, MAP, intake Air Temp, etc, they are ALL WRONG!

So what can this be?
Thanks guys!

EDIT: now I wonder why when I turned on the decoder, the engine won't start at all! coz everything is screwed! even the counter doesn't move! But somehow, if I turn on the decoder while car is running, everything is fine, but my engine will not stall at idle!

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gilee_8	Aug-09-06 06:23 PM
Member since Jun 11th 2002 1441 posts,

#2388, "RE: Found more interesting stuff about the NEON/420A Decoder (pic inside)"
In response to Reply # 8

If people actually having problem getting the Neon/420A decoder to work. I found out WHY!
This is SOOO STUPID!

Go into Basic Settings -> codebase and outputs function
And make sure you have:
-LED17(D14) functions: Spark Output A
-LED18(D15) functions: IRQ Trigger (bascially anything is fine)
-LED19(D16) functions: Spark Output B

I original have LED19(D16) for acceleration. and when I put the decoder on. EVERYTHING IS SCREWED UP Engine won't start, and idling is horrible, and so on!
Today, I totally gave up, and I just like... ok, I change LED19(D16) to Spark Output B. VOLA! All the gauges value are correct even I have the decoder ON!

And I Tried it. restart over 10 times. all startup instantly with decoder on!

I don't see how that output pins changed or has anything to do with this decoder causing the engine startup to fail.

But this is the solution!

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Chamuko	Aug-10-06 09:36 AM
Donating 2GNT member 3668 posts,

#2393, "RE: I need help on the 420A/neon decoder mod!"
In response to Reply # 6

Originally posted by gilee_8
I won't say much this time! but excited. I went to buy the cleaner, and COMPLETELY cleaned the entire MS board. it's like..SPOTLESS CLEAN! I plug it back into my car, with 420A/neon decoder on, and it had hard time starting, but it started, and I drove 15 miles to my g/f place too! But sadly, I look at the log, total of 14000 entries logged, but about 100 of the RPM column spikes over 5000RPM, about 8 of them spikes to 11,000 RPM. Anyknow know how I can fix that as well? Thanks all. And thanks again Matt, I will never think of cleaning the board will help this much! Gil

told ya. electronics 101.

Member # 751

FOUNDER of the Central Cali chapter of 2GNT!
(I got kicked out after I refused to go Cow tiping) - Hehehe you know who this is for

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