I've been looking at both the crane and the crower camshafts. I've been examining the specs between the two and trying to figure out a few things. On both the crower and crane websites they show the factory specs but the specs on each site are WAY different.

Crowers site
OEM Cams
Duration 219/221
Duration @.05 166/172
Gross lift w/1.75 .273/.323
http://www.crower.com/cat/import/mitsu/camshafts.shtml

Cranes site
OEM Cams
Duration 243/243
Duration @.05 192/196
Gross lift 344/315
http://www.cranecams.com/import/mitsubishi.htm

Now I can't make a good educated decision on getting either crowers or cranes because I can't really compare the two and I don't know how they are comparing their cams to the stock ones. Can anyone shed some light on any of this?

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

i worked some numbers out a while back, and from the specs on 2GNT and the 2GNT factory Service manual, i cam out with an intake duration of 218* and an exhaust duration of 217*.

Take it with a grain of salt, i guess - you're the math major, not me.

http://www.2gnt.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=6

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If a sentence found online has 35% misspellings or greater and includes at least two racially charged expletives, chances are it is a YouTube comment.

'95 Eclipse TurboGS (garage deco)
'95 TSi AWD (restoring a survivor)
'97 Talon ESi-T (poor impulse control)
'99 Eclipse RS-T (daily beater)
'13 Evo X (mostly stock)
'17 Sienna (Middle Aged Dad Mobile)



Factory Service Manuals: http://nawdu.de/files/

It just makes it hard to compare cams from different manufactures if they don't have the same base line. I could just use the how much above their stock specs it is but it'd be nice to know how the two could be SO FAR off in measuring stock specs.

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

I've noticed this too. I do not have an explanation as to why this is the case either.

My guess, is they are measuring them "differently" from one manufacturer to another. When I say "differently" I mean maybe one is measuring the cam directly, the other is measuring what is happening after considering the valvetrain. I'm not certain about this, it's just a guess.

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart

What it looks like to me is that Crane took the Neon specs and used them for the 2GNT...

Crower had a set of camshafts I sent them to work on the billets off of so their specs "should" be more accurate, and they match more what Dino has.

But then again they haven't updated the actually grind specs since they changed from their original pre-production/R&D specs... (since last time I checked, which was months ago).

I'll post the actualy Stage 2 Crower specs for all to see, when I digout the spec card.



15.9 @ 86.7mph
97 Eclipse RS

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Thanks Michael. I was leaning towards crowers even though they are a little more expensive. I'm curious what your spec card shows.

-"Easy Mac"
05 Mazda RX-8 (RR8 #88)
99 Eclipse RS 398whp & 372lb-ft

Crane 12s should pull a little harder than the Crower stage 2 cams. It has more to do with the lift than the timing. Crane gives more lift, signifigantly moreso on the intake cam. I also noticed that Crane uses different timing. I actually programmed all of the Crane and Crower cam specs into Dyno 2000. Here's a 3 way comparison stock vs Crane #12 vs Crower stage 2. It can be difficult to compare cams without a tool like this cause there are so many variables. You can see that, through the entire range, the Cranes achieve at LEAST 2 percent more VE then the Crowers. Its closer to 5% difference on the lower end.




95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

Now, what specs did you use?

Here's the actual Crower Stage 2 specs:

Intake: Duration= 248* Lift= .389"
Exhaust: Duration= 246* Lift= .357"

At .050" tappet lift:
Intake: Opens -8.0* ATDC Closes 24.0* ABDC
Exhaust: Opens 31.0* BBDC Closes -17.0 BTDC

Lobe Separation" 110*

Duration at .050"
Intake: 196*
Exhaust: 194*

Lobe lift:
Intake: .222"
Exhaust: .204"




15.9 @ 86.7mph
97 Eclipse RS

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake, Crower Stage 2 Cams, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, Crane Ign Amp, S-AFC

Interesting. I suppose I didn't really catch on to the fact that the actual specs were going to be any different from the ones on the web site. Brain fart I guess.

Well I used what I could from the specs that are currently listed on thier site. Since there is no mention of lobe centerlines or IVO/IVC/EVO/EVC event angles - I assumed stock centerlines. I'm going to list out the specs for all of the cams in question. All of these specs are based on seat to seat timing(which gives a more accurate simulation in Dyno2000).

Stock cams(from the overhaul manual 2gnt_420a_overhaul.pdf)
Intake lift : .324 in.
Exhaust lift : .278 in.
Intake centerline : 109.2 ATDC
Intake duration : 221 degrees
Exhaust centerline : 107.4 BTDC
Exhaust duration : 217 degrees
IVO : 1.3 BTDC
IVC : 39.7 ABDC
EVO : 35.9 BBDC
EVC : 1.2 ATDC
notes : What can I say. Stock cams are always shitty unless the car itself is exotic.

What I assumed for the Crower stage 2 cams. Again, here I assumed that they kept the stock centerlines.
Intake lift : .355 in.
Exhaust lift : .310 in.
Intake centerline : 109.2 ATDC
Intake duration : 240 degrees
Exhaust centerline : 107.4 BTDC
Exhaust duration : 240 degrees
IVO : 10.8 BTDC
IVC : 49.2 ABDC
EVO : 47.4 BBDC
EVC : 12.6 ATDC
notes : These are nice. Good duration. 23.4 crank degree overlap - a big jump from the measly 2.5 crank degree overlap on the shitty stockers. With 192 degree duration@.050 - it falls .6 degrees away from actual overlap@.050. Also, could be better with more lift on the exhaust cam. Better than stock.

Here's the Crane #12 cams
Intake lift : .364 in.
Exhaust lift : .364 in.
Intake centerline : 107 ATDC
Intake duration : 246 degrees
Exhaust centerline : 113 BTDC
Exhaust duration : 246 degrees
IVO : 16 BTDC
IVC : 50 ABDC
EVO : 56 BBDC
EVC : 10 ATDC
notes : Good lift. And with 204 degree duration@.050, there is a whoppin 5 degree overlap@.050 lift, which is most likely noticably audable. Good street cam.

And here's the new and improved actual Crower stage 2 spec.
Intake lift : .389 in.
Exhaust lift : .357 in.
Intake centerline : 106 ATDC
Intake duration : 248 degrees
Exhaust centerline : 114 BTDC
Exhaust duration : 246 degrees
IVO : 18 BTDC
IVC : 50 ABDC
EVO : 57 BBDC
EVC : 9 ATDC
notes : Nice intake lift for a street cam. The timing is a bit wierd though - nothing that gears cant take care of. Not much audible overlap with only 196/194 duration@050. Good street cam.

With the new spec, the Crane #12 and Crower stage 2s look almost identical. Its got a tiny bit more in the mid range, and its a give and take battle on the high end. I was playing around with the timing on the Crowers a bit and(like the Cranes) they have greater potential when adjusted properly....but out of the box they're almost identical in output/VE to the Cranes.




95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Jeep TB writeup - http://www.dimensia.com:81/jimbo/JeepTBfor2gnt.html

Hey Glad you guys posted a graph to compare the differences between both cranes and the crowers. If they really compare power wise identically then i'm leaning towards the crowers price wise. Currently Summit racing is pricing the crower cam at $370. Hey if there any cheaper priced cams,post it.

Superb information!

Now, metaljim, if you could, could you see what happens if you compare stock to crane #10s, #12, AND #14s??????

I have a hunch about the #14s on a naturally aspirated car (even though they are for turbos)

and, with the info you have listed for the stock cams and aftermarket cams, AND with more comparison dynos of the cams from the software, I would defenitely put this in the "things we've seen before" section

"Tutto fa brodo."

Todd Scungio
98 RS
15.173 @ 90.70 MPH

And also a 2011 Ralliart