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Subject: "12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"

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bullettdsm	Oct-22-12 05:01 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#137421, "12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"

Just wanted to post this up because there is a lot of conversation about how high of a comp you can run on the stock ECU and pump. As I suspected, you can run 12.5 comp on stock ECU and pump gas (93oct).

The set-up I have is 12.5 comp, Crower 2's, MP60mm, LTH, lightly ported head, ported stock intake, Stock ECU.

Here's a quick vid I just made (don't mind the stumble at the end, I have a vac leak I haven't addressed yet).

YouTube.com

Captain Caveman

96 RS Turbo 11.414 @ 119.62 MSNS, Crower 2 NA cams, BW366, 10.5 comp, UDP, 60mm TB, W/A intercooler, 3.55 tranny 567.9whp 430tq
97 RS NA 13.188 @ 103.87 MSnS powered 12.5 comp, Crower 3's and 219.4whp with 175tq
98 RS DD 12.5 comp on stock ECU, LTH, Crower 2's, Koni, GC, Hypercoil, DG hats
99 OZ 5sp Stocker 15.856 @ 85.97
99 GS stocker auto 17.7@77mph!

wiki home page:http://www.2gnt.com/index.php?d=bullettdsm

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xcasbonx	Oct-23-12 05:55 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2874 posts,

#137425, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 0

Nice job as usual MB. Makes me want to build the spare block I got.

I contributed to the Wiki.

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Red90Sev	Oct-23-12 07:06 AM
Member since Aug 28th 2010 261 posts,

#137426, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 1

Do you plan to put it on a dyno? Very nice!

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bullettdsm	Oct-23-12 02:03 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#137432, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 2

Originally posted by Red90Sev
Do you plan to put it on a dyno? Very nice!

Probably. I'm going to hit the dyno when i tune the Megasquirt, so I will probably do a baseline on stock ECU first. It takes me about 20 seconds to switch from stock to Megasquirt with the plugs I have set-up

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740 turbo brick	Oct-23-12 10:08 PM
Member since Jun 09th 2008 831 posts,

#137436, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 3

Originally posted by bullettdsm

Originally posted by Red90Sev Do you plan to put it on a dyno? Very nice!

I like to hear this. If I had the knowledge about MS I have now, I really could have made my own plug and play harness at the stock ECU location, to swap back and forth when needed.

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

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xcasbonx	Oct-24-12 06:01 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2874 posts,

#137437, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 4

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
I like to hear this. If I had the knowledge about MS I have now, I really could have made my own plug and play harness at the stock ECU location, to swap back and forth when needed.

Extra connector/pigtail for the coil pack and the injectors and you're good to go.

I contributed to the Wiki.

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bullettdsm	Oct-24-12 02:35 PM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#137438, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 5

Originally posted by xcasbonx

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick I like to hear this. If I had the knowledge about MS I have now, I really could have made my own plug and play harness at the stock ECU location, to swap back and forth when needed.

Extra connector/pigtail for the coil pack and the injectors and you're good to go.

Yup. The only other thing I had to do was put the egr tube back on for emish.

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bullettdsm	Oct-28-12 03:02 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#137463, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 6

Ok, so current update on the 12.5 engine; got some miles on her (idk how many. I'm upstairs right now maybe in the 60 -70 mile range. I haven't had a lot of time to run her around). When I first got her on the road, she seemed to have quite a bit of pick up and go. But as the computer started getting involved, she is definitely getting more "loggy". I believe that that stupid ECU is pulling timing and richening up the mxiture. Is it as bad as stock? No, but I don't really see the difference between my 10.5 and the 12.5. Now she'll still spin into 2nd gear (with a Quaife in there too), but it seems to have gotten slower since the ECU. Now, if I reset ECU, I start back at the quite a bit of pick up and go. I should be tuning her thursday on MS (weather permitting)

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97 Demon	Nov-01-12 05:05 AM
Member since Apr 17th 2011 31 posts,

#137474, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 7
Nov-01-12 05:05 AM by 97 Demon

keep us updated on how this goes please. and in your opinion do you think you can run a higher comp than 12.5:1 on the stock ecu?

____________
- The Demon
97 ESi
goal weight: 2,000lbs

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740 turbo brick	Nov-01-12 12:09 PM
Member since Jun 09th 2008 831 posts,

#137475, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 8

I would say it can, but it will pull timing so much as to make the compression increase almost pointless

95 Eclipse GS: 10.5:1, Crower 2's and MSII
186 WHP - 150 WTQ
14.697 @ 93.85 MPH......Gone, but not forgotten
99 420A Avenger: Given to my sister
99 GS OZ: Sold
03 Evo 8: Family Car with balls

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bullettdsm	Nov-02-12 01:34 AM
Donating 2GNT member 2676 posts,

#137476, "RE: 12.5 comp does run on pump and stock ecu"
In response to Reply # 9

Originally posted by 97 Demon
keep us updated on how this goes please. and in your opinion do you think you can run a higher comp than 12.5:1 on the stock ecu?

Originally posted by 740 turbo brick
I would say it can, but it will pull timing so much as to make the compression increase almost pointless

Bingo.

So newest update; got her on the dyno today (not real successfull. Trying to teach a new tuner MS. He's a real good tuner just doesn't know MS so we have wasted a lot of time so far trying to teach him).

The stock ECU has now effectively been "taught". Put her on the dyno for numbers, and they weren't very impressive, lol.

135.5whp with 117torque @6000rpm.

Now I wanted to log timing numbers, but his equipment was malfunctioning. So here's what I think was happening. I think the stock ECU was seeing events and freaking out. I think (judging from the instant power gains when I reset the ecu and then the power loss as she "learned"; as well as the dark spark plugs) that the stock ecu was pulling timing and pumping in fuel.

I believe I got better numbers on the stock ECU and 10.9 comp. I just haven't got the memory (or the time to search) to come up with the info.

So the long and the short of it is; yes, you can run 12.5 comp on pump on stock ecu (I'v egot plenty of miles on her now as a daily), but your gains wil be limited by the stock ECU (and this is an engine with all the NA bells and whistles).

MS tune on this set-up yet to come.....

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