Ok I know this is a well talked about topic in this forum because I have been reading posts after post. I just wanted to get an opinion from someone else on this forum. I have a custom made 420A 14b turbo manifold and had some problems when I installed it. It didn't line up like it should have as if it wasn't angled right on the block. It had a gap on the bottom that just didn't seem right as if it was worped or something. So I just took it off and put the car back to the way it was. I saw on here that someone actually attached a square flange(turbo) to the round flange on their stock header. I was wondering how that worked out because it didn't look that effective in keeping the exhaust gases in the pipe but that just me. I know there are a couple of guys on here that can make the manifold, but I don't really want to spend money on a new one. So I guess I have two questions.

What does everyone think about attaching a turbo to a stock manifold?

What should I do with this worped manifold? Can I take it somewhere and get it fixed/fitted right for cheap/good price?

well, i m building my turbo kit and I have been looking for turbo manifolds for a while...

you don't have too many options...

1 buy a flange, pipes and weld all that crap together....it will crack eventually....

2 find someone that welds better than you and tell him to do No 1....it will crack too, just later....

3 break the bank and get a Hahn one or equivalent

4 there are some on eBay for $200 shipped, but I don't really trust it

I ve been looking for one for the past month, after considering all these options, I went with #3....:) cause I don't want to have to fix things that require welding, simply cause I don't know how !

i personnaly would not spend time/money on that stock f*ckd up manifold you got...

Good luck with your setup

Get a Hahn manifold. I wish I got one.

ok so how much does a hahn racecraft manifold cost and how reliable are they? Also doesn't it come with the 16g flange on it. Does that flange fit a 14b turbo?

http://hahnracecraft.com

Originally posted by xlr82x
ok so how much does a hahn racecraft manifold cost and how reliable are they? Also doesn't it come with the 16g flange on it. Does that flange fit a 14b turbo?

Yes they come with a mitsu flange, which means the 16g and the 14b will bolt up. Making a custom manifold doesn't mean it will crack and if a good welder does it it probably won't crack. I have had mine for 14k miles now and it cracked once right on my crappy weld, I re-welded it and haven't seen a nother crack. I'm considering getting a manifold from www.thestreetsource.net though, A bunch of guys have his manifolds and they are good quality. Call him up and talk to him, you will have to special request a mistu flange if you want one though. I don't think it costs extra.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
Yes they come with a mitsu flange, which means the 16g and the 14b will bolt up.

Um no. The 14b will bolt up but it will be sideways.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
I'm considering getting a manifold from www.thestreetsource.net though, A bunch of guys have his manifolds and they are good quality.

Yeah, GREEEAAAAT QUALITY.... :rolleyes


Just buy an HRC kit or at least the turbo and manifold. You'll save so much time and money in the long run.

If you think buying an HRC kit is "breaking the bank" then you SERIOUSLY should NOT be going turbo. The kit is a small fraction of the total cost.

Originally posted by thedawg

Originally posted by GSGoinFast Yes they come with a mitsu flange, which means the 16g and the 14b will bolt up.

Um no. The 14b will bolt up but it will be sideways.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast I'm considering getting a manifold from www.thestreetsource.net though, A bunch of guys have his manifolds and they are good quality.

Yeah, GREEEAAAAT QUALITY.... :rolleyes Just buy an HRC kit or at least the turbo and manifold. You'll save so much time and money in the long run. If you think buying an HRC kit is "breaking the bank" then you SERIOUSLY should NOT be going turbo. The kit is a small fraction of the total cost.

You sure? My friend with a honda got a manifold for his car with a 16g flange and it put the 14b right where it needed to be. I also thought that a 16g was a direct bolt in for turbo dsm's and didn't require any modifications to the manifold? :shrug

You are the first I have seen complain about the quality of his manifolds.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
You are the first I have seen complain about the quality of his manifolds.

I've heard of a very few people saying that they had to get the flanges machined flat, but never anything like that. Other than those few with the flanges, everybody said those mani's were great quality. :shrug

ok so I was reading another post and I have to check to make sure this is right before I do it and look like an ass. They say that you have to leave the oil outlit line off and let oil drip out when you are first installing a turbo.... Can some one tell me why you are suppose to do this and for how long you let it drip if you are to do it? Also what happens when you jsut install the turbo with out doing this? Will it not do the same thing?

I was talking about the one that attaches to the block. I think it would be better to have it machined than to buy another one and play the chance game again.

Originally posted by xlr82x
ok so I was reading another post and I have to check to make sure this is right before I do it and look like an ass. They say that you have to leave the oil outlit line off and let oil drip out when you are first installing a turbo.... Can some one tell me why you are suppose to do this and for how long you let it drip if you are to do it? Also what happens when you jsut install the turbo with out doing this? Will it not do the same thing?

Oh and something I forgot to mention is that it is a used 14b turbo so I don't know if that has any correlation at all. But please someone let me know.

Originally posted by GSGoinFastMy friend with a honda got a manifold for his car with a 16g flange and it put the 14b right where it needed to be.

1) Honda = Irrelevent.
2) 1G DSM 14B/16G is vertical, downward facing flange.

3) 2G DSM T25 is a vertical, downward facing flange.

4) HRC Super 16G is a horizontal, forward facing flange.

5) Streetsource's "Garrett T3" Turbos are also horizontal, forward.


If you were using a factory cast 2gnt manifold, the mitsubishi turbos (specifically 14b) would bolt up. Of course, you'd have to remove your airconditioner, radiator, radiator fans, etc.


If you were using a Streetsource or HRC 2GNT manifold, the OEM Mitsubishi turbos would not mount up, unless the guy crustomizes it with a vertical flange to fit the Mitsubishi turbos.

Originally posted by GSGoinFast
You are the first I have seen complain about the quality of his manifolds.

I am also the first to post detailed pictures of the quality :twitch of the manifolds. Everyone else just says "My buddy's buddy with a honda has one and he says its great!".

I'm not complaining about them at all. I'm simply posting pics of a poorly cut, poorly welded manifold from Streetsource. If you consider that you can get an HRC or STAR manifold of MUCH better quality for nearly the same price, then you will understand my point. I got my Streetsource manifold for $20, and that's about what it's worth, IMO. Hey, it hasn't cracked yet! Well... that's probably because its sitting on my garage floor, just like xlr82x's crap-ass manifold.

Can someone who doesn't know what they're doing please just go ahead and start a company called LibertyBell Manifolds? It would save us time wondering about how long it would last before it cracked.

Originally posted by thedawg
I got my Streetsource manifold for $20, and that's about what it's worth, IMO. Hey, it hasn't cracked yet! Well... that's probably because its sitting on my garage floor, just like xlr82x's crap-ass manifold. Can someone who doesn't know what they're doing please just go ahead and start a company called LibertyBell Manifolds? It would save us time wondering about how long it would last before it cracked.

LOL :order :dark

My mistake on the HRC flange, I can't believe I never noticed that before.

My custom manifold has never cracked :)

Originally posted by thedawg
Can someone who doesn't know what they're doing please just go ahead and start a company called LibertyBell Manifolds?

Ahahaha... that has already happened - gottude, concept illusions, ssautochrome, etc...

Ok so this is becoming the biggest pain in the ass when it comes to this freaking turbo system. I can not find a shop around here that has a fly cutter. I mean I live in Warrenton, MO which is right outside of the STL and I still can't find anyone who is will to mill my freaking exhaust manifold. If you are from the STL area, can you tell me a good place to go? please......

Originally posted by xlr82x
Ok so this is becoming the biggest pain in the ass when it comes to this freaking turbo system. I can not find a shop around here that has a fly cutter. I mean I live in Warrenton, MO which is right outside of the STL and I still can't find anyone who is will to mill my freaking exhaust manifold. If you are from the STL area, can you tell me a good place to go? please......

Um if you want to drive about an hour or so, there is a machine shop in Carbondale Illinois that did the work on my crank, give them a call, their called Mac-weld. fairly cheap too.

just wondering, but are they open on the weekends? And thanks, I might end up making that drive.

Originally posted by xlr82x
just wondering, but are they open on the weekends? And thanks, I might end up making that drive.

Ummm I'm not sure. Let me go check my car to see if I still have the receipt for my crank to get you their phone number and address.

EDIT: Ok, found it. here it is:

Mac-Weld Inc
612 San Diego Road
Carbondale, Il 62901
Phone # (618) 529-1828

Give them a call and see if they can do what you need. Hope that helps

Thanks for all of the help.

Originally posted by xlr82x
ok so how much does a hahn racecraft manifold cost and how reliable are they? Also doesn't it come with the 16g flange on it. Does that flange fit a 14b turbo?

got one on eBay for $250 bucks...it's not easy to find one everyday tho so keep looking

i heard they are really good quality

So I had a header put together and I was wondering what are the chances that it was actually got worped? I know GSgoinfast custom made his and that is what I was going off of. so I am not to worried about the quality because I am just trying to get my foot in the door and when I find that the whole system works I will begin to tweak it and upgrade shit after a while. Did anyone who custom made their manifold have a gap on the bottom when they tried to match up the holes and put it on? If so how much of a gap and I guess if you did't that means that I have to get that freaking piece machined flat.

Originally posted by xlr82x
So I had a header put together and I was wondering what are the chances that it was actually got worped? I know GSgoinfast custom made his and that is what I was going off of. so I am not to worried about the quality because I am just trying to get my foot in the door and when I find that the whole system works I will begin to tweak it and upgrade shit after a while. Did anyone who custom made their manifold have a gap on the bottom when they tried to match up the holes and put it on? If so how much of a gap and I guess if you did't that means that I have to get that freaking piece machined flat.

Which flange are you talking about? The head flange or the turbo flange? I accidently warped my head flange with the welder when I was repairing that crack, so I got a new flange being delivered tomarrow.

Originally posted by xlr82x
Did anyone who custom made their manifold have a gap on the bottom when they tried to match up the holes and put it on? If so how much of a gap and I guess if you did't that means that I have to get that freaking piece machined flat.

All flanges, on all manifolds, no matter what, are perfectly 100% flat. If you have a flange that doesn't lie flat on a sheet of glass, then you need to get it machined. Even my HRC manifold warped at the head flange due to the bolts not being torqued correctly & it had to be machined.

If you're talking about the flange not mating up size-wise to the head or turbo correctly, then you'll have to get the entire flange cut off and a better one welded on, which is going to cost more than its worth.

Yeah, I had my manifold decked (milled with a fly cutter, flat) at both flanges before it went on my car.

you can buy the star manifold from slow boy racing too. it's beefy. :)



http://www.slowboyracing.com/more.php?id=1346&

I will have to try that when I get home the whole glass and manifold trick. But thanks for all of the help.

Yeah, the local machine shop only charged $20 to deck both flanges, well worth it and needed.

I don't understand why there isn't a production tubular, high grade, turbo manifold for the 420A. I mean, all it takes is a few weeks at a reputable place for some design.

I'd be willing to bet that there is someone willing to invest some time if enough people scrape some money and make a group buy.

For those who say that they crack, not really. I've had my Full-Race manifold on my civic for over a year now, and another before that with the previous owner, and it has not cracked yet. They are expensive, but worth it BANME!, but there are other cheaper welders or fabricators out there.

Trully, I think HRC should make thiesr a tubular style mani and not the log style. Oh and please, do not give me that crap that we don't need one and that power gains are not worth it.

I know I saw some guy here with one, and it looks good. Was it a GT30R with it too? I would love to see a 2gnt with something other than your typical 20g or 16g or the classic t3/t4 with whatever housings. How about a nice GT35R? Fitment issues?

Anyway, it has been a long time since I visited the board. I'm starting to build a 2gnt, again, but this time the right way.

FWIW

Stainless tubular for 420A.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/420A-TURBO-Manifold-Stainless-Header-Eclipse-Neon_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33631QQitemZ8065396086QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

There is a guy on Neons.org that is selling his used HRC manifold along with a 20G for around 600-700$. I believe the screen name is Omnious. Hit it up if you are serious.

That looks like thin assed manifold and of very poor design. I bet that mani will crack right away.

mine should be done this weekend or sometime in the very near future....i will post it up when i get it done

so where are the log manifolds cracking? Im assuming you're talking about the you buy a flange and some Weld-El's and weld it yourself manifold. I only ask because this is what I'm doing and if there is a way to add some structural support to the manifold and prevent this cracking from happening then I'm all for that.

They are talking about the log but there is a way to get around it cracking. If you Make sure that the wall thickness is 1/8in or a little more then you should be good to do. And make sure that you have a professional TIG welder with a rep do it. Nothing against doing your own weld or for those people who did do it but I have heard stories both ways. But the person who pays the welder usually ends up with the better deal out of all of the storise I have heard. Other people may not think the same but this is what I have heard from people who have done it both ways.

There are lots of different places the manifold can crack. Mine has got a hairline crack where the turbine flange meets the runner, and another smaller one where a runner goes into the head flanger. Anywhere the manifold is welded can split.

As far as structual support for a log manifold, there isn't much really, unless you use the stock downpipe bracket and make a bracket to connect your custom downpipe to it. That would help share the load of a very heavy turbocharger and all the assorted piping... but if the welds are crap to start with, this won't fix the problem.

If you are making it out of mild steel, using thicker piping (schedule 40) will help prevent cracking even with a long tube design. If you are making it out of stainless and are a competent welder or know a very good welder, you can make it out of anything as thick or thicker then 16 gauge.

so the cracking comes more from the weight of the components hanging off the manifold then from heat cycles? If that is what your saying then I'll just make a couple braces and cross my fingers. I was thinking about running beams along the primaries (yes, I just said primaries in reference to a lag manifold, loller!) but bracing the turbo and downpipe sounds easier.

As a side note, for people that do decide to weld their own manifold, clamping the flange flat onto a giant, thick piece of steel will do wonders in dissapating the heat away from the weld instead of localizing it, thus preventing the need to have the flange machined flush latter.

I purchased the Turbonetics manifold from slowboy racing last week, waiting for it to get here.

Originally posted by BumpinTalon
As far as structual support for a log manifold, there isn't much really, unless you use the stock downpipe bracket and make a bracket to connect your custom downpipe to it.

This is pretty much a requirement. Every aftermarket turbosystem I've seen without brackets supporting all the weight of the turbo and manifold has cracked something eventually. You can't just hang a 50lb chunk of steel off a vibrating engine, heat it to 1600*F, bounce it off a couple speedbumps, and expect a handful of tiny manifold bolts to provide structural support.