OK, it's been a while since I post up here.
The problems I have is fucking horrible.
Let me start off from the beginning.

A while back, I took off all my stuff, turbo, filter, exhaust manifold, all looks great then. and replaced the exhaust manifold gasket. But the two lower corner screws are COMPLETELY fucked up and all the head's threads at that two corners are completely gone!
Then I drove back to college from NYC (about 200 miles) and I notices my check engine light went on then I use my logger to found out it's the O2 sensor is dead (i broke it when I took off the DP earlier the day) --- SHIT.

Then of course since my O2 sensor is fucked so my A/f gauge reads like constant .458 or like 1.... etc. Then while i was on the highway, I start boosting...and HOLY SHIT, the EGT went to 900C = 1650F twice...(lasted about 1-2 sec each) it just shoot up instantly. OK, after that everything is cool, I watch my EGT every moment. I got back to college, the next day.. the car just pour out TONS of smelly white gas at the exhaust, and also the manifold. (coz I messed up the two corner threads) I DO MEAN ALOT!
Also I notice the front driver side Camshaft position sensor is spitting out oil (like a fountain).. so I AM FUCKING WORRIED.

Then 2 days ago, I did a compression test. and the # came out to be 212-214-208-215

So I know my ring didn't die out (am I right?). so it's just my headgasket (i hope) since mine is a 1995 version.

I start taking out things...and I found out a few things and have a few questions:
1) My exhaust manifold is WARPED badly (got it from motofool-BILL) so I have to resurface it right? (also I think that's why my head exhaust threads were fucked...
2) How do I fix that 2 corner threads on my head?
3) If my headgasket really blown... do I have to resurface the head also? so I do, do I have to completely disassemble it?
4) what's up with the cam position sensor oil leaking? what's up? is my head fucked up?
5) This worries me the MOST, my turbo (s16g) the intake side has OIL inside, not TONS of oil, but some... from air filter pipe to intake side of turbo, to the outlet of the turbo to FMIC... My turbo is brand new and now with only about 500-1000miles... and I checked for all shaft play and it's NONE>. (it's solid like new) can it be just from the engine? or if I fix the engine then it will be fine??

Now my ony problem is now is to take off the STUPID engine mount to take off the timing belt... I did a rebuilt on another engine before...I know it's IMPOSSIBLE< what should I do here???? I took out the whole engine at the end, but I dont' want to do that for my car now.... HELP ME guys..

Do you think I missed anything? what should I do?

also for all the details I said above, if you have any opinions about them, just tell me... I need all the info I can to make my car back to a normal 6PSI eclipse!
THanks alot guys.....
Gil

Was this the same car you were trying to sell? Man I am glad no one bought that and then ended up with all those problems. Sounds like you have some major work to do.

This happened a few days ago...
Like Jan 22nd or so...
So this happened after I decided not to sell the car, and I change the exhaust manifold gasket...but then I FUCKED IT UP.... shit...

Please help guys!
I know I will get good answers!
Gil

white smoke = water = coolant...probably = blown HG as for everything else ??????? id say your engine is officially fucked...nothing you dont already know...sorry to hear it dude

Originally posted by 96eclipse2nr
white smoke = water = coolant...probably = blown HG as for everything else ??????? id say your engine is officially fucked...nothing you dont already know...sorry to hear it dude

OK, please identity what you mean by the engine is OFFICIALLY fucked?
I did the compression test, and the number is HIGH.
so shouldn't atleast my engine block is still perfect?
Please give more details, and solutions...
I konw I am fucked..but how deep? lol.... i need specific help and solutions!

THanks alot!
Gil

yes, resurface the head if you take it off, its aluminum...its soft and doesnt like stay straight and level over time...stretching and warping...blah blah blah;). and while its out you might be able to retap those holes for the exhuast mani. If not then bust out the heliocoil but it wont be so bad since the head is out of the car.

With good compression numbers then your shortblock is probably fine.

Yes, I heard of the helicoil..but they are DAMN EXPENSIVE..like $60 a kit for just one size.... is it worth it? or should I just get a new head?

ALso, for resurface it, do i have to take off all other parts?

Also, other solutions for other problems?
Great and Thanks for all the help so far!!! but more is needed!
Gil

If your turbo is good, and your getting those compression numbers, then your headgasket is good too. Of course your gonna run rich as hell if your O2 is gone. The seal on your camshaft position sensor is probably just gone too, quick and easy to replace. It's not hard to helicoil, and it's not as expensive as you were mentioning. Go to AutoZone, get one, then return it w/o the inserts }(. You'll definately need to get that exhaust manifold machined flat. If you have oil in your intake path on your turbo, and you PCV valve and breather tube arn't leaking oil, it can't be from your engine, and your turbo's seals are bad.

Yeah I agree.. with those numbers, your headgasket should be good, check your oil and see if it is merky/brown. That's weird since it is blowing white smoke, b/c that is a good indicator of a blown head gasket.. As for your cam positioning sensor, those fuckers are cheap and the seal on them are thin. It could be that or even leaking out of your valve cover, b/c mine did that and I thought it was that sensor. You are definately gonna have to get your exhaust mani machined, no way really around that w/o replacing things. With the amount of money you will spend fixing your head, it'd be alot cheaper to fix it than replace it.. But it's your call. As mentioned before AutoZone has a good return policy :).. g'luck man.

Hey guys...
Ok, from the previous two replies...I am really CONCERNED about this.
I am 85% stripped down the engines...
The only thing I need to do is take off the engine mount and take off the timing belt, then take out the Head...
SO is my headgasket bad?

If not, then how the hell my exhaust is spitting out MASSIVE white smoke, and they CHOKE ME too. The smell of them is HORRIBLE. Like if you take a deep breath from it, you will go to ER right away. Also, when I look at the back of the engine from the bottom of the car, Coolant EVERYWHERE. on the axle, on the oil filter, etc...

Please guys.. .let me know anything you cna think of.. I don't want to pull the head then found out it's not the headgasket!
Thanks all!
Gil

EDIT: also, ever since I added turbo, the Engine oil from my catch can has some MILKY white things amount the oil... and someone told me that's coolant which is mixed in the oil and I LOST alot of coolant as well.. so shouldn't that be my headgasket??

***OH I JUST REMEMBER ONE THING***
When I first start the car (multi times) (including warming up for compression test) the first ~1 minute or so the exhaust is totally fine. Other then the exhaust manifold leak where it smells and white smoke coming out from there, the muffler has NO smoke or smell. After 1 min or so, then the muffler start having those smoke and smell. ???? Please help!

That would just be bizzare to have a blown headgasket with those compression numbers.

When you check your dipstick does the oil look milky?

Arn't S16G's oil AND water cooled?

Your a '95, which does have a paper composite headgasket (which are notorious for blowing, mine did too) which should be replaced with an MLS one anyways, but if those compression numbers are right, I might be checking out your turbo first.

OK, my turbo is a small 16G and yes it has oil and coolant feed. But I only setup with the oil feed right now. I did plan to do the coolant feed later on..but not yet.

Yes I am sure. I cranked for about 15 seconds for each cylinder and got those number.
And my exhaust is so much white smoke.

If my headgasket is not blown..how come my rear engine has lots of coolants...also, how come my exhaust manifold leak (corners) also have white smoke coming out just like the tail (muffler)

And I only connected the oil feed and return for my turbo, so there are no way for the turbo to leak any coolant.... What gives??

Can the headgasket ONLY leaks when engine is running, and when I do compression test, the engine doesn't run anymroe, so headgasket is still fine???

Please help!
I want my car back guys....
Greatly apprecated any help!
Gil

Originally posted by gilee_8
But the two lower corner screws are COMPLETELY fucked up and all the head's threads at that two corners are completely gone! Then I drove back to college from NYC (about 200 miles)

I start taking out things...and I found out a few things and have a few questions: 1) My exhaust manifold is WARPED badly (got it from motofool-BILL) so I have to resurface it right? (also I think that's why my head exhaust threads were fucked.

Personnaly I think it's the opposite
the manifold warped because of the uneven pressure the manifold didn't sit properly on the head when you torqued the remaining bolts and drove 200 miles you started to have a leak and the exhaust gaz flowing between the flange and the manifold heated the manifold much more than usual and made it warp

I made that manifold as freebie to replace the one for Eclipse2nr that UPS lost a few weeks earlier
And of the 26 made in the last 2 years that's the first warping that I heard off

You are in the Albany NY region right ?
One of the best 420a specialist of ASOG lives in that region, in Schenectady I think
his family owns a machine shop too he could probably do something for the resurfacing of the manifold
join the ASOG board and pm JADEDSILVER

Alain

First of all dude, if your o2 sensor is fucked don't drive the fucking car and BOOST. Jeez. If your o2 sensor isn't giving proper readings then it doesn't know how much fuel to deliver. So it can either dump fuel in by the ton, or choke your engine completely. So you could have potentially melted your pistons. You got lucky in my opinion.


I'm not sure about all this, but Dino says that certain turbos are bound to have oil leaks at certain times. Take off your return line and see if it's clogged.

I would replace your headgasket no matter what. Your valve cover gasket, and your cam angle sensor gasket/seal. Redeck your head and manifold and tap your mani bolts.

If you have coolant everywhere check your hoses everywhere. If you're 1995 you may have an old cracked hose that's spraying out coolant and when the engine heats up it's burning it off on the outside. And yes, that shit is like mustard gas when it burns. Yuck!

THanks guys...
but that still doesn't answer the reason why the TAIL pipe (muffler) spit out a HUGE amount of white smoke?

Doesn't that HAS to be caused by Headgasket problem?
......
Any other help, ideas, opinions on other problems I have above?

THanks all!
Gil

I could be wrong, but if you had way too much fuel mixed in (due to your o2 sensor) then grayish smoke could be released. Atleast that is sorta what happened w/ my friends nova. Carb was all fucked up and somethin was makin too much fuel be delivered, Caused grayish (maybe your white) smoke... that's just a guess though. It isnt that hard to change a head gasket to play it on the safe side..

OK..I don't konw if I should be happy or worried...
sound very good news..but I am confused now.
.... what you all said DO make sense... but always have to keep in mind about it, I have alot of coolant at the back of the engine... and oil losing as well (oil is a little)
So?....

But also, ^^^ do got a point... coz the white smoke from the exhaust SMELL REALLY like gas... and SMELL LIKE SHIT!!! but does leaking coolant to exhaust smell VERY BAD ALSO? (to a point of choking?)

Gil

Originally posted by a_miller_76
First of all dude, if your o2 sensor is fucked don't drive the fucking car and BOOST. Jeez. If your o2 sensor isn't giving proper readings then it doesn't know how much fuel to deliver. So it can either dump fuel in by the ton, or choke your engine completely. So you could have potentially melted your pistons. You got lucky in my opinion.

This information is wrong. When boosting, the ecu is in open loop due to load and throttle position, which means it is not using the reading from the o2 sensor to fuel the engine. A dead o2 sensor will give an overly rich (read safe) a/f mix in closed loop operation along with shitty gas mileage, but it's up to the fuel maps in the ecu to fuel the engine in open loop. At any rate a lean engine will melt pistons and a dead o2 makes the ecu go rich by default. Jeez. :rolleyes ;)

As for Gil's problem, if you can't find the source of you coolant leak, and don't know that milky white stuff in your oil is bad, you need to take you car to someone who knows what they're doing. Sorry.

Originally posted by 992gnt
if you can't find the source of you coolant leak, and don't know that milky white stuff in your oil is bad, you need to take you car to someone who knows what they're doing. Sorry.

This is the best advice i've seen in this thread.

I know a good machine shop in my town, which is not far from you at all. I personally think your car is flooded with fuel which is why you have the smoke and the smell.

Fuck man..
If I have the money to give the car to someone to fix it... I won't be sitting here worrying and asking questions guys...

I guess I just have to take everything off, and figure things out myself correct??
Gil

correctomundo.

All I want is some opinion on what you guys think.
THanks all thou.
Gil

Any other great inputs and advices are GREATLY appreciated!
Gil

IMO sounds like you may have a crack in a water passage, possibly in you head. #3 did look low compaered to the others. And if you have a catch can then your turbo if fucked... Unless you sucked in some oil from your leaky cam sensor.

I would just start taking stuff off and see exactly where your coolant is leaking. Maybe wash your engine bay down before you start so you will see better what's leaking. At first I thought you just had a coolant leak and after you drove the car for a few minutes the coolant would start smoking causing the smell, but if it's coming out of your manifold like that too then :shrug

Sup guys.
for the past 4 days I am taking everything off my engine bay, and today I finally got the engine head off.

Here is a few pictures..





Now, I got everything apart, please help me on my problems guys!
Let me tell you some updated info (weird shit)

As previous said, after I drove for 200miles from NYC back to college, the next day my car is fucked with tons of smoke. (if I want to go faster - 15MPH, my car will seems like dying or choking)
OK, that day, I thought I fucked my engine coz of the 1650F from highway and bad O2 sensor, etc.
So I check my Catch can... dry... maybe 1 drop or so. SO it's nothing!

After 2 times of warming up the car completely, and a compression test done, today when I took off everything (like the catch can) I was like.... it's FULL??? I open the bottom valve, and WATER is pouring out of the bottom of the catch can (I believe it's coolant but I can't see if it's green) I try to burn the liquid to see if they are gas, but doesn't lite. The catch can is like 2/3 full of water with like 1 drop of oil the most. So it must fill up all those during that 2 warm up time and the compression dry cranking time.

What is wrong?? How can my catch can caught water??? The only thing I connect it to is both my Valve cover vent. And I thought the only thing from those vent is air or oil.... Is something wrong with my head?
Can someone please give me some clue??? does the HG looks blown?
Also, I took off the head, and the block and piston looks Great. check out the pic ^^^^. let me know ALL you guys think!

Thanks alot guys!
Anything will be greatly appreciated!
Gil

Looks to me like the headgasket on the exhaust side of #3 is compromised, and #4 doesn't look very good either but it's hard to tell from that pic. How do the cylinder walls look?

This is what you get when you give better information than "my car is smoking, what's wrong". And for the last time your bad o2 sensor has NOTHING to do with your engine problems.

Thanks... the cylinder wall looks very good.
No specific hard scratch on them.

Any other ideas on why the catch can is filled with water???
Thanks all.
Gil

What color was the "water"?

Water in the catch can is the craziest thing I ever heard of (oil sits on top of water).

Don't give up gilee, I think it's cool you've been doing your own work.

I'm with Greg on this one. Look at the discoloration, sort of brownish burnt color on the exhaust side of cylinder 3, and also 4, of the head gasket. If you look close, that discoloration is right next to the coolant passages,and the one oil drain passage up front there..could be the problem right there. Its really hard to be for sure just by looking at those pics. Get a better close up pic if you can

I agree with them too, it's possible that it could be leaking so slightly that it's been making it's way in there but still having a semi good seal. That paper gasket blows, in more than one sense. Get the MLS, clean everything up while it's apart, put it back together, and take it from there (look for any other leaks).

It's kinda hard to see the water's coler, but it's a VERY VERY light green water...so kinda transparent like water but with a tiny little green color in it.

Also, About the HG, yes, I ordered all new gaskets for HG, exhaust, intake, VC, cams, etc....I will replace all new gaskets.
But I want to know HOW the hell that much water got into my catch can... SO that means there are TONS of water in my Head before hand then... ???? is that possible?

Also, I will try to take a real close up picture again tomroorw to show you guys..
Gil

I believe it was mixing into your oil from the gallery at the #4 cylinder at the rear corner, which would also be where it's coming off the back of the block, and the water was getting sifted out of the oil in your valve cover and into the catch can. I would replace your PCV valve, which is how oil would be getting into your intake if your turbo's seals are good. And the smoke out of your exhaust via rich gas and coolant (smells like waffles) from the #3 cylinder.

Thanks..I hope it's all about the HG...
but if the HG is leaking so bad, shouldn't my Compression Number very low?

Again, I will post Close UP picture of the HG tomroorw.
Gil

Since there wasn't a clear shot from the cylinder to outside of the head, the oil/coolant that was liking into the cylinder from the gallery could have provided a seal the same way a test of piston rings works (pooring oil into the cylinder to see if compression numbers rise).

Static compression numbers have no bearing on what the head gasket can hold under boost. There is a chart somewhere on the 'net that shows actual cr with different amounts of boost. My 9.5:1 setup at 20psi was actually more like 17:1 cr (maybe it was higher?) with the boost added. That kind of cylinder pressure will find ways out of the combustion chamber that a regular compression test will never find. Usually it will manifest itself by 'pushing' coolant out of the coolant overflow. Yours pushed the coolant into the oil passages, down into the oil pan, and then back through the motor, and that's how it ended up in the catch can. You'll be lucky if you didn't waste any rod or main bearings with that much water in the oil. You MUST change your oil and change out all the coolant before you start the car up again.

Originally posted by 992gnt
Static compression numbers have no bearing on what the head gasket can hold under boost. There is a chart somewhere on the 'net that shows actual cr with different amounts of boost. My 9.5:1 setup at 20psi was actually more like 17:1 cr (maybe it was higher?) with the boost added. That kind of cylinder pressure will find ways out of the combustion chamber that a regular compression test will never find. Usually it will manifest itself by 'pushing' coolant out of the coolant overflow. Yours pushed the coolant into the oil passages, down into the oil pan, and then back through the motor, and that's how it ended up in the catch can. You'll be lucky if you didn't waste any rod or main bearings with that much water in the oil. You MUST change your oil and change out all the coolant before you start the car up again.

Very good post!! :thumbsup

I'm having a similar issue right now. My MLS headgasket is leaking cylinder pressure into a coolant passage. The added pressure is pushing coolant out to my overflow resevoir until it's full, then spilling over. It is resulting in my car overheating if I drive it for a long enough period of time. And for a point of reference...my compression test came back fine also. A leakdown test showed that I was leaking pressure in cylinders 1 & 4.

And like Greg said, you're engine is pushing coolant into the oil passages, resulting in water/coolant in your catch can and the white smoke from it burning off.

Sup guys...I will go out and take some pictures now.. and post them later today after coming back from Fedex for some GSX brake kit shipment.

This is the message someone PM'd me on some ideas of my engine condition, and I greatly appreciated the help and of course the replies from all of you guys as well!
You all really giving me some great info!
I hope you won't mind python6586! Thx.

here is what we talked about:

Originally posted by python6586
u say u didnt blow ur h.g cuz ur compression numbers are all ok but, u can have a blown h.g and stil have perfect comp. numbers, it all depends where hte gasket went, gasket could have gone between the cylinder and coolant passage the the gasket on the outside of the coolant passage could be fine yet, and so would ur compression, what are you symptoms anyway.????

HI, thanks for replying, you can just post at my forum if you like also, so later on if others need help can also reference from this post.

But yes, my symptoms are this.
First day I found out my car spit out TONS of gas, I drove my car, out to the block, i can't drive my car faster then 10-15MPH, then my car shutters and wanna die out. (now I think of it, might be too much gas from bad O2)
Then, I parked the car, warm it up again later on, then do a compression test. Durring those two warm up, my exhaust (tailpipe) spit out TONS TONS of white smoke, but smell HORRIBLE,, like choking type. And also my engine bay from the leaking exhaust manifold gasket as well.
Then when I took apart my engine, I found out my catch can is filled with water, my turbo intake side has some oil, (both from air filter and to FMIC pipe) on the turbo exhaust side, and exhaust manifold, it is all black from carbon, and also sticky black shit which I believe is too rich (Gas with carbon)
Also one last thing is my rear engine (view from below the car), there are some coolant on my oil filter, and alot of oil stain on my tranny part (where the nut for tranny fluid change part)

Thanks.
I hope you can help me!
Gil

I will soon post some close up pick! for more infomations for you guys!
Gil

Fuck, I can't read his pm. Is that english or what? I *think* he's saying the same thing I am. The reason you have "sticky black stuff" in your exhaust manifold is because you are (were) burning coolant. That's where the white smoke was coming from. Replace your head gasket, make sure the cylinder head isn't warped, put it back together and move on. No great mystery here as to what happened.

.

Sup guys.
I took some more extreme close up pictures of all 4 cylinders.
Please try to see if you guys know more info about my engine block and etc.
Thanks alot!!!
I greatly appreciated.

First picture is cylinder one on Timing belt side to 4

No one?
I thought you guys want to see some close up!
Thanks all in advance!
Gil

Originally posted by 992gnt
Replace your head gasket, make sure the cylinder head isn't warped, put it back together and move on. No great mystery here as to what happened.

What part of that^^^^^ don't you understand?

Aite...coz I thought of you guys might want to see the close up pictures.
Thanks thou.
Greatly appreciated!
Gil

another clue to blown head gaskets (if water is leaking), is clean sparkplugs...sometimes the water will clean the sparkplugs more than the others...just a clue
doug

Plugs speak a language all thier own! :)

Yeah gilee, Do what Greg said and you should be good. Those old style HG's don't last under boost.