i found this intercooler and was wondering how effecient it is at cooling. I am putting a turbo in and need an intercooler. This intercooler system consists of 1 Spearco intercooler, 1 Jabsco water pump, 2 stainless braided lines with Earl's A/N fittings, and 1 water holding tank. This system is sufficient for any engine up to 3.2 liters of displacement. The intercooler has a 3" OD inlet and outlet. It is already flanged and tap threaded for either a Greddy Type S or R blow off valve. Simply install your BOV and you're set.

Looks like a huge hassel to me. I would just get a regular air to air intercooler. Then alll you have to do is wory about mounting that and not a hughmongous(sp) water tank besides. I'm not sure how a water intercooler works but it seems like you would have to keep cold water in it for it to be effective. Water gets heat soaked just like an intercooler does. I would say that that intercooler would be good for track purposes only. But if that's what your buliding your car for I'd say it could work. Best of luck to you whatever you decide.:thumbsup

Think of how much water weight you'll ad to your car. And you'll need a second radiator to cool that water down.

Edit: And you want your BOV to be as close to the intake manifold and throttle body as possible. Now way down on the intercooler.

http://www.key-ideas.com/AirWaterIC.htm
It's about some guy in a pos car that added water cooled. He switched from water to ice cold water and it gave him 40 more to the wheels!!! I plan on street racing my car. I have other cars that i could drive but i really want my car to be a daily driver.

I was thinking if i could have this water intercooler and put ice cold water when i'm racing and just run the warm water when im not racing. The only problem is that i don'tthink that I would want to have to put ice in my car right before i race.

Also i could run 2 systems one with a special radiator that would cool the water in the tank. And have a second tank with ice cold water and only use it when the car is racing. also there might be some type of special coolant that i could use to keep the ice from melting.

does anyone have any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by redeclipset
http://www.key-ideas.com/AirWaterIC.htm It's about some guy in a pos car that added water cooled. He switched from water to ice cold water and it gave him 40 more to the wheels!!! I plan on street racing my car. I have other cars that i could drive but i really want my car to be a daily driver. I was thinking if i could have this water intercooler and put ice cold water when i'm racing and just run the warm water when im not racing. The only problem is that i don'tthink that I would want to have to put ice in my car right before i race. Also i could run 2 systems one with a special radiator that would cool the water in the tank. And have a second tank with ice cold water and only use it when the car is racing. also there might be some type of special coolant that i could use to keep the ice from melting. does anyone have any suggestions that would be greatly appreciated.

First of all, there's no "coolant" that can keep ice from melting unless you are using a refrigeration unit. And secondly, melting the ice is what causes the cooling anyway. When you touch ice and feel that it's "cold" you're actually feeling the transferance of heat energy from one source (your finger) to another (the ice) causing it to melt.


The terminology "cold" really doesn't exist in the laws of physics. Cold is a descriptive word used to describe the sensation of an object which lacks heat. When water forms ice it has been deprived of the required energy to maintain it's liquid state. The state of "cold" is the absense of heat energy.

Water also has several properties which make it non condusive to this application:

1. Weight....the weight of the cooler, tank, lines, pump, and all the water within are going to slow you down.
2. Corrosiveness...You're going to have to ad addatives to that water in order for it to not deteriorate the aluminum.
3. Heat transfer...Water does not have as high a heat transfer rate as air. This is why a lake can feel really warm at night when the air outside is very very cold.


Based on your laws of thermal dynamics, the increase in power to weight ratio, and the hassle I would say this is not a viable options for you to pursue.

Think of it this way. If this was a good idea, then real racers would all be doing it long before now :thumbsup

I say try it, to be different, cuz' everybody has air to air intercooler. You just have to figure out where to put this. I think if you relocate your battery to the trunk, you could put the intercooler there and where the stock filter was, you could put the water tank right there. Just my two cent...

I don't really even see an intercooler here. That thing is more like a cool box. There is no way that thing would cool down the air enough to make a difference. It's only going to be in there for half a second, and there is no surface area to distribute the heat. IMO if you use this you will be rebuilding very soon if you go above non IC boost levels.

In almost all race cars they have water to air intercoolers.

I believe that the fins are submerged into water inside the box. It doesn't have as much surface area as an air to air intercooler but all the air is getting cold. On an air intercooler only the front is getting cooled. Plus the water would be around 35-45 degrees instead of the normal 70 degree air that an air intercooler would have. I know that the cold water would warm up easy but after each 1/4 mile pass if the water gets replaced then it won't be a problem. This is only meant for race applications but if the water stays cold then it could be used all the time.

He is right, people use this type of setup all the time. They are more efficient the air-air but are more expensive.
Nick
97RS

turbo8u> shut your SUCK
ZAO684: NIPPLE warning...maybe>?

I'm thinking of running 2 intercoolers. A normal air-air then the water-air. I'm just wondering if anyone knows how hot the air is coming into the manifold on their intercooled ride.

Originally posted by redeclipset
I'm thinking of running 2 intercoolers. A normal air-air then the water-air. I'm just wondering if anyone knows how hot the air is coming into the manifold on their intercooled ride.

I datalog between 100 and 130 degrees with my side mount. It actually goes down as I accelerate. And I boost about 7psi.

Yeah, that's right. Most of the drag racers use this kind of intercooler on there setup, it's more efficient on the track but I don't know if that's true in the street though.

Also it doesn't need to be infront of the car so it can greatly reduce spool up time and piping problems. I could easily connect this right between the manifold and the turbo. Just take out the battery and i'll have a place to put the intercooler but i'm still deciding where to place the water. This system will easily save like 4-5 feet of intake piping!!

Yeah, people use these for drag cars. My buddy has one on his honda, it has a coil with a resivour and he fills it with dry ice. His intake temps are about 55 digrees! but I don't think air to water IC's are good for street use.

Vortech uses air to water IC's for most of thier supercharger kits. And they are all CARB approved and made for the street so :shrug

I was not disputing that this will work on the track. I am aware that many professional drag teams use this setup. I was speaking to the terms of street use, and how that would only be useful for brief moments of time. For example to run on the street at say 10psi you would have to fill this thing up constantly. I did not word my responce properly though as it does read as if it would not work because of it's size. I ment that if there was no cold water in there then it would do no good because without the cold water there is no surface area to dissapate heat. So I know these systoms are very successful in track use my comments were aimed at street use. I have seen water to air IC's with much bigger surface areas that look like it could function half desently without the H2O. Does that make sence?

Yes air to water intercoolers have the ability to exceed 100 % efficiency. They are not practical thoguh. This has been posted over and over again. The radiator ( oil coolers maybe) used to cool the water are a last resort kind of thing in vehicles that dont have the room for the Air to Air intercooler systems. The only reason races use them is because their cars only need it for 9 seconds or less. Put some ice in and it will be efficient. For daily driveability and maintenance its not worth it. The electrical drain from the pump, or mechanical, or what ever you use, and also all the lines, fittings, making sure nothing leaks. Etc... Just not worth it, financially , short term or long term.

Correct it is not as well suited for street cars but its great for strip cars... see in my case my car is gona use a coolant like mixture cooled by inserting dry ice in the tank (of course you gota let it release the co2 though..or else kabloie intercooler)....great cool down for about the 20 seconds i need it

Street car..i would do A2A FMIC

Originally posted by a_miller_76
3. Heat transfer...Water does not have as high a heat transfer rate as air. This is why a lake can feel really warm at night when the air outside is very very cold.

I agree with everything except this. I assume that you are speaking of the thermal conductivity. Unless I've forgotten everything since I was in school, I beg to differ. Water has a higher thermal conductivity than air (at standard temperature and pressure). The lake may feel warm because of its mass. The mass of the soil and water is huge compared to the air in close proximity to the lake. It takes a great deal of energy to change the temperature of the water in the lake. The air temperature can dip at night, but it will take weeks for the lake to change temperature.

Otherwise, I say that an air-to-air is best for a daily driver.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

The merkur is not a pos car it’s a german/american engineering marvel. And I stop eclipses all the time in it! :)

love,
Lar

Originally posted by redeclipset
i found this intercooler and was wondering how effecient it is at cooling. I am putting a turbo in and need an intercooler. This intercooler system consists of 1 Spearco intercooler, 1 Jabsco water pump, 2 stainless braided lines with Earl's A/N fittings, and 1 water holding tank. This system is sufficient for any engine up to 3.2 liters of displacement. The intercooler has a 3" OD inlet and outlet. It is already flanged and tap threaded for either a Greddy Type S or R blow off valve. Simply install your BOV and you're set.

It's a perfect idea for racing where the temps are constantly on boila dn the car is always in motion but the opposite applies with temp variation and idling water to air isn't the solution here folks

On my ship we have a water aftercooler for the turbo. It takes water from the ocean and passes it through a bundle of tubes which contain the charge-air. Basically taking the heat out and putting warm-hot water overboard.

It makes perfect sense for ships and speedboats. Cool water is so plentiful, it might as well be ambient air. If we didn't have to recirculate the water and cool it with another heat exchanger, it would be good for us too.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Originally posted by a_miller_76
1. Weight....the weight of the cooler, tank, lines, pump, and all the water within are going to slow you down.

lol, hardly noticeable.

Originally posted by a_miller_76 2. Corrosiveness...You're going to have to ad addatives to that water in order for it to not deteriorate the aluminum.

dont use hose water :nono, use purified water

Originally posted by a_miller_76 3. Heat transfer...Water does not have as high a heat transfer rate as air.

actually, thats not true. heat transfer with air is relative to the ambient temp. water actually has a higher heat transfer rate though. for example...the old air cooled vw's, they sucked. thats why people put water cooling systems in. this air to water intercooler WOULD work i dont know what you guys are talking about. as long as the coolant that stayed flowing through this 'air radiator' was kept cool. very do-able with a fluidyne, lower thermostat, better flowing fans, etc. if the coolant stayed reasonably cool, it would work fine. old subarus came with air to waters, fyi. and yes...professional drag cars sometiems pour fresh ice into their air to water intercoolers, or resort to methanol injection. i myself am peicing together a water injection system for this exact reason, and that justs hows how water has a higher heat capacity than air too.

_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

silent souls leave .308 holes

The main reason street cars would use water to air intercoolers is packaging. Sometimes, it is just too hard to fit a big air-to-air IC. An air-to-water IC can be crammed about anywhere. Water lines can be run pretty easily. The secondary head exchanger is generally small and can be easily fit.

Race cars would use it because they can put ice in the IC and get cooler intake air than any air-to-air ever could.

If you can fit an air-to-air IC on a street car, why not use it? An air-to-water setup requires the air-to-water IC, reservoir, pump, lines, and a secondary heat exchanger. You are really transfering heat from air to water to air again. Why not cut out the middle man? The mass of the water in the system is helpful for the racer. He can chill his water below ambient. Then he can run alot of hot intake air through that IC before heating up his water. The mass of the water lets you store energy for use later. But, what happens on a street car when the water heats up to ambient or worse (idling in traffic in the dead of summer)? The water's mass now works against you. It will take alot of air to cool the water back down. Air-to-air IC's are generally made from aluminum and have little mass. Their fluids (air) have little mass too. That will affect how quickly the system can change temperature.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

perfect analogy for street driven cars

"cut out the middle man"

EDIT: but spray on an IC is WAY better because as the water vaporizes it carries with it the heat - but Josh you know this

Originally posted by Skrilla
perfect analogy for street driven cars "cut out the middle man" EDIT: but spray on an IC is WAY better because as the water vaporizes it carries with it the heat - but Josh you know this

yea i know, but spraying the intercooler is lame imo. might as well just get some aquamist nozzles tapped in there, it'll help more.

the only reason i *know* an an air to water works is because ive seen it in action. my friend has one on his 2.5rs turbo and it seems to work just fine



_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca


as needles of ice
are the ill winds' talons
the coldest of shadows
they seep unto the bone

silent souls leave .308 holes

dude,

I'm tryin not to give away your water inj