Here's the sit:
I have a 1998 Eclipse with almost 95,000 miles on it. Bought it 2 years ago with 80,000. This year has been the year of mods, mainly stereo and little things here and there exterior wise. Performance is a big abyss to me. I have not a clue about any of it. This winter I wanted to re-design the interior, put the body kit on it, ect... but there is that whole engine thing... I had it detailed once, looked mint, 2 weeks later, ugly ass as before.

I've gotten many people's opinions and such about dropping this engine out and swapping it for a 4g63 with a bigger turbo, BOV, intercooler, ect... or just buying the bolt on turbo. Doing the engine swap is what I'm leaning towards doing because putting a turbo on an engine with 95,000 miles raises an eyebrow. I dont know how well the engine will do, since I dont know who owned it before me or what they did to it. I know its a whole lot of work to so the engine swap, but it might be the better of the 2.

If anyone has some input on this, that would be great. :thumbsup

If you have money to burn then go ahead and try the swap. Before you post this stuff though you should really search, as this ? has been asked 100's of times. The swap will do you NO good so I would look in the turbo section and start reading, or if you really want a 4g63 then sell your car and buy one. BTW welcome to the board!

Nick
97RS

turbo8u> shut your SUCK

my god...I'm a noob I admit it...but I'm tired of seeing that question. Seriously it comes up about once a week in one of three sections. Someone should write a script that deletes the post and sends the "poster" to the search page when it sees 4g63 and swap in the text.

Not to flame you dude...sorry...welcome to the board:thumbsup

Instead of yelling no0b why dont you guys point out how and why you feel the way you do.

My opinion...dont bother and here is why:

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=23&topic_id=24&mesg_id=24&page=


EDIT: BTW, that only took me 10 seconds to find

How about a counter at the top that shows how many times that question gets asked? :P Welcome no0b. Do not fear the criticism. You have just faced the worst you can probably get here these days. We play nice. Promise.

dammit i just ran into a fellow eclipse owner (rs) the other nite and was telling him about 2gnt an stuff. i was asking him what mods he had planned and he started going off about doing an engine swap and crap. i was tryna explain to him how it's not a cost effective swap and how the 420a is very capable of handling boost but he kept saying how some guy he knew blew a after throwing on a turbo. he was talking about RWD conversions an stuff too... *sigh* idk if he'll make it to the board eventually but i'm sure he'll be asking the same damn engine swap question...

-marc

='95 RS 5spd Red=
Matrix CAI
A'pexi Turbo N1
Hanabi 8000k HID
SPAL Deluxe Power Windows
Nakayama GT5 17's
Ractive STB
GSX Calipers
AEM Rotors

255 is fricken short

Osrry I'm not as inclined as many of you 'old timers'. I'm simply a girl trying to learn this stuff. Out of 6 posts I only got 1 suggestion. If you dont want to read someone elses post regauding the topic that has been covered hundreds of times, then why do you read them?

It really bothers me when a girl is trying to get information on a topic she knows not much about and all she gets is flack. No wonder not many other girls are into the car scene...

If you have a suggestion, then please suggest, if you have nothing, then write nothing. Sorry for being such an ass, but its happened way too many times to me before. All I want is up to date info.

>Osrry I'm not as inclined as many of you 'old timers'. I'm
>simply a girl trying to learn this stuff. Out of 6 posts I
>only got 1 suggestion. If you dont want to read someone elses
>post regauding the topic that has been covered hundreds of
>times, then why do you read them?
>
>It really bothers me when a girl is trying to get information
>on a topic she knows not much about and all she gets is flack.
> No wonder not many other girls are into the car scene...
>
>If you have a suggestion, then please suggest, if you have
>nothing, then write nothing. Sorry for being such an ass, but
>its happened way too many times to me before. All I want is
>up to date info.

::sigh:: females...

No one knew you were a girl, so it has nothing to do with that. People are just tired of seeing that question... and a lot of people enjoy calling out the n00bs.

But now that you've pointed out the fact that you are a girl, you're ten times more likely to get responses lol.

And don't do the swap IMO. HUGE pain in the ass, and no where near worth it, when you think about all the possibilities with the 420A. Read up on this section, make good use of the search function, and you'll see what I mean :)

Welcome to 2gnt.

Sell your car and get a GST. If you are asking this question then you don't know a lot about turbos and mechanical stuff. And if performance mods are a "big abyss" to you then you won't want to deal with all the hassles and constant headaches a turbo system on a non-turbo car will give you.


The swap is not very feesable because it will cost you a crapload of money for not much of a gain. Go to the main page and read the frequently asked questions section:

http://www.2gnt.com/nuke/modules.php?op=modload&name=FAQ&file=index&myfaq=yes&id_cat=1&categories=General#8

That should answer your question.




Oh, and by the way guys, she's member number 2498...I'm 2512....and I think today's "noob" is 4617 or soemthing like that. She's been here awhile.

If your gonna do an engine swap, I'd go with the 420a 2.4, talk to motofoo on here, do a search on his name and give him an e-mail. I wouldnt do the 4g63 swap. Too much stuff to be done, but if you insist on doing a swap I'd do the 2.4 420a and add a turbo on it.

Thank you for the help. The reason why I wanted to do the swap was to learn about the engine parts, how they work, and into the performance stuff.

My best bet, since I wont sell the car, is what? Rebuilt this engine; buy a new 420A engine from http://www.fasterthanyou.com/420A_engines.cfm ; and totally forget the 4g63....

I really need a good teacher, anyone interested in teaching a girl to do new tricks?... ;)

If you do an engine swap, you must swap in a used engine (rebuilt or "as-is"). Is that any better than simply rebuilding your existing engine to handle a turbo? After you rebuild your existing engine with all the proper hardware to handle boost, it is no longer a 95,000 mile engine. It might as well be new and you won't have to worry much about reliability. But, you WILL have to worry about all the little details that make a turbo kit safe (keeping nuts and clamps tight, keeping vacuum hoses intact, tuning the fuel system, watching EGT's while driving). You will have to learn how to diagnose and fix things yourself. Most mechanics won't have a clue what to do with your car.

Despite the response you get from some people, it is OK to ask these questions. We were all ill-informed at one point and didn't know where to look for answers. Now you know to search and read before asking. Most topics have been discussed before. In time, you will become familiar with the location of the answers you seek and the capabilities (and limitations) of the search function. The "I'm just a girl" thing doesn't fly with me. None of us guys were born with innate knowledge of 2GNTs, we learned it over time...just like you can.

Corbin

'95 ESI-T
HRC+FMIC+ETC...



Gimme fuel...Gimme fire...Gimme that which I desire

Thank you.

Well I wasn't trying to be negative, I was just saying that if you don't know anything about performance or working on mechanical stuff in your engine then the last thing you need to do is jump straight into turbos and engine swaps.

I worked on my friends cars for years before I got confident enough to tear into my own. What seems easy from a distance can get overwhelming really fast, even for the most experienced mechanic. Ask The1Bill about engine swaps and what not.

the only think I would be swaping the 4g63 into is that old ass mitsu pickup truck. Its a direct bolt in because THAT TRUCK HAS THE SAME MOTOR. The 420a is a better motor IMO, but because its built as a naturally aspired motor it takes some work to boost it properly. Drop your motor, send it to VT to be rebuilt, put it back in and you have a brand new motor ready for boost. then start saving for a turbo kit or read up on it and build your own. thats the fun stuff! :thumbsup

all 2g's are sexy and that seems to be the only thing girls see in a car. I wish we had mechanic chicks around here! ha! :thumbsup

I hope you did not take my responce as cold, I was merley trying to tell you that the swap is useless, and that if you were going to turbo your 420a then this turbo section would be your best info source. If you read the topics in this section it will tell you what you want to know. We are all willing to teach you what ever we can. As you have/will see this is a great community here. Any questions you have are welcome, we just want you to search first sometimes. None the less though, ask away and we will answer.

Hey...I'm sorry for my response too...I'm trying to become a respected member here and my reaction isn't helping my cause at all. I think that a chick that works on her car boots donkey and I applaud your willingness to learn. Most girls...at least the ones that I know..just like a car for the way that it looks..not the way that they perform or their potential for performance. If you want to learn mechanics my suggestion would be start small. Change your own oil, (if your not already), air filter, breaks, things of that nature. Become familar with the cars systems and where everything is and how they interact with each other or how they avoid interacting with each other...lol. Break the car up into pieces (metamorphicly at first;-) ) and try not to look at it as one unit, because that can be overwhelming at times. And my best piece of advice....read...read a lot..spend hour and hours flipping through the pages of your shop manual...you got one right? I spent all my free time pouring over the posts in this website for months before I even signed up...and I still left noob posts. But I have to admit I have an advantage over a lot of people when it comes to wrenching...I grew up on a farm that has junk equipment that always needs fixed. So from a very young age I was exposed to this sort of thing. Plus my dad is a major motor head to an always has a couple of hotrods around that we tinker with. So in short post away...you may get flamed but that's how we all learned the ropes around here. Good luck to you! Friends?

OOH, OOH, I WANT TO FLIRT WITH THE GIRL }(

i would like to apologize for my previous response because you are a girl. not because i did not mean what i said. :rolleyes

-marc

='95 RS 5spd Red=
Matrix CAI
A'pexi Turbo N1
Hanabi 8000k HID
SPAL Deluxe Power Windows
Nakayama GT5 17's
Ractive STB
GSX Calipers
AEM Rotors

255 is fricken short

I understand you all are helping me. I dont take critisism all that well, as you can tell. In the past, I asked a S-AFC question about installing and got nothing but crap about it. No one believed that I was a girl, just a really stupid guy trying to get attention by posing as a girl, that REALLY ticks me off. Those sterotypes that believe guys are all into cars totally piss me off. Since I'm a girl, it is very hard to learn and understand as a guy would. I need a good teacher in my area, anyone interested?! :P I know the basics about a car, I'm NOT by any means unmechanicaly inclinded, just mechanicly challenged right now. Any questions about audio, I'm all about, but performance is a new world to me, and I WANT to learn more about it. The more I ask, the more I know. Any help/suggestions/hands on information you can provide me is a plus, and I thank you.

MICYEK, I dont have a shop manuel... where can I get one, or is that a stupid question... :wary

I did some research on the site this afternoon. Found out that the 420A is overall a better engine than the 4G63 becasue it will last longer in the long run. I read many times that the 4G63 requires a lot of attention to detail if to keep it running perfect... the 420A was built to last, even with a turbo. But then there is the 420A 2.4 liter... a little larger than the stock 2.0, not sure about that though... then read about turbos... some say that T25 is a toy, others say it is the balls, then there's the T3/T4 and the stock 16G... then the BBK something or other that is like, $1000 just for the turbo... hmmmmmm, choices...

The main concept I have come to is keeping the 420A, whether I get the 2.4 liter or not, its an overall better engine. Rebuilding my stock 420A would be a challenge if I did it myself.

If YOU were in my situation, what would you do?

>
>MICYEK, I dont have a shop manuel... where can I get one, or
>is that a stupid question... :wary
>
Well...I got mine from eBay...it's a chiltons...but I think I ended up paying more for it in the end because of shipping....but I'm an eBay addict. Auto Zone may have them...I think they carry Vance Hayes or whatever....and I know my local Pep Boys has a huge selection of shop manuals. Or if you want to go all out I think you can go to your local Satin and get the ones that they use. But I think that would be quite pricey...$100 bones or something to that effect. I like my chiltons but it can be vague at times because includes 1G's to and some of the diagrams for 2gnt's are kinda...well microscopic. Buts there is tons of useful information in it...even explanations of why some things were put on the car like the EVAP system and junk like that. At least I know why I have a CEL now...not sure how to fix it yet though...LOL...good luck with your quest for more powa:thumbsup

In her defense guys, I've tried to use the search function millions of times and it came up with results that had nothing to do with what I wanted. I modified the criteria and words and the search gave me nothing of use. So sometimes it doesn't work and I have to ask. In this case, I'm sure she could've found what she wanted...

Anyway, to answer your question you'd be much better off with a built 420A engine than a swap. You'd make more power for cheaper if you built your current engine instead of swapping in a 4G motor. The only time anyone on this site will tell you to sell your car and buy a turbo Eclipse is when you ask about the swap.

>The main concept I have come to is keeping the 420A, whether I
>get the 2.4 liter or not, its an overall better engine.
>Rebuilding my stock 420A would be a challenge if I did it
>myself.
>
>If YOU were in my situation, what would you do?

if ya don't wanna gather parts and do the rebuild yourself you can just buy a rebuilt shortblock with forged interals and lotsa goodies for $1675 www.fasterthanyou.com (see their ad banners posted around 2gnt). they get their blocks from vtengines (www.vtengines.com). several members have already had their rebuilds done by vt and have been VERY satisfied. if you go through faster than you there's a $400 core charge so i think you can just buy the block for $2075, swap it, and send em your old block and get your $400 back. that way there's barely any down time. i think if you go directly through VT they don't always have a core they can ship out.

keep researching the 2.4 if you're seriously considering it. there were some fitment issues you need to be aware of.

personally i'm prolly gonna get a rebuild done sometime by VT and then turbo. should be fun...

-marc

='95 RS 5spd Red=
Matrix CAI
A'pexi Turbo N1
Hanabi 8000k HID
SPAL Deluxe Power Windows
Nakayama GT5 17's
Ractive STB
GSX Calipers
AEM Rotors

255 is fricken short

>
>if ya don't wanna gather parts and do the rebuild yourself you
>can just buy a rebuilt shortblock with forged interals and
>lotsa goodies for $1675 www.fasterthanyou.com (see their ad
>banners posted around 2gnt). they get their blocks from
>vtengines (www.vtengines.com). several members have already
>had their rebuilds done by vt and have been VERY satisfied.
>if you go through faster than you there's a $400 core charge
>so i think you can just buy the block for $2075, swap it, and
>send em your old block and get your $400 back. that way
>there's barely any down time. i think if you go directly
>through VT they don't always have a core they can ship out.
>
>keep researching the 2.4 if you're seriously considering it.
>there were some fitment issues you need to be aware of.
>
>personally i'm prolly gonna get a rebuild done sometime by VT
>and then turbo. should be fun...
>


Does VT only do the 2.4? When I get my rebuild I don't want to have to do all that engine bay modding to get a 2.4 in there so if they have a 2.0 or 2.2 rebuild I'd be very interested.

I might just do the fasterthanyou.com purchase. It would be easier than rebuilding myself or having someone else do it for me. Should I stick with the 420A 2.0 or go bigger with the 2.4? In eaither case I still need to drop the engine out to paint the entire bay. That sucks, but it will look nice once its done! What do you guys think?

> Should I stick with the 420A 2.0 or go bigger with the
>2.4?

the 2.4 is another world
this is far from beeing a direct swap

I started to work last week on a kit that will make the job easier
and let you keep the stock AC and power steering without hacking them
plus a new engine support replacement

as for the alternator the pt cruiser bracket will do the job

it should take me a few more weekend to finish a partial prototype and once the engine will be dropped into my car I will finish the engine support

Alain

if you know what your doing and know how to do some engineering/fabrication you can do it.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=556101#post556101

but if you don't feel confident then just a bolt on kit. if your looking for power just go straight to stage3 just costs more.

Hey you live in Manchester, NH? I'm moving to Laconia, NH in a month or so. I can help you out :)

>Hey you live in Manchester, NH? I'm moving to Laconia, NH in
>a month or so. I can help you out :)

That's a line if I've ever heard one. ;)

>>Hey you live in Manchester, NH? I'm moving to Laconia, NH
>in
>>a month or so. I can help you out :)
>
>That's a line if I've ever heard one. ;)


Nah dude, I'm engaged...I'm just being a good guy. Besides, why the hell would you drop a "line" on a car forum to some chick you don't know or never seen? :rolleyes

ok this shits gone on way too long. everybody stop before someone gets hurt.

Ok, so scratch the idea of the 2.4 because I honestly wont know what I'm doing unless a_miller_76 can do it for me... Laconia isn't too bad of a haul from me, my brother lives up there, havnt seen him in 8 years, kick him in the balls for me if you get the chance.

I just got a price quote from Hahns... almost had a heart attack. Stage 2 is $3049 or $3449 depending on the intercooler and stage 3 is up to $6000! It's probubly me, but I quite honestly thought a bolt on turbo ran $1500 at most. I would be replacing the BOV and intercooloer off the bat with Greddy. A friend of mine is sponsered by them, so he gets his performance stuff cheap.

a_miller_76 welcome to new england weather! Hope you like Civics, thats all there is up here with weed wackers sounds, they seem to come from everywhere. It would we great to have someone work on the car that knows what they are doing, as long as you can teach me something too. Nothing is etched in concrete until the mid of October. I have my S.L.A.P. shows to go to in Georgia, after that, its full steam ahead.

Anyone - is hahns the only decent aftermarket comapny that makes our bolt on turbo kits? And is the $3000 to $6000 worth it? :*

And hey, I like the flirting! How offen do you see a chick trying to learn... just imagine a chick working on YOUR car with you......

you like flirting huh. so, what are you wearing}(

what are S.L.A.P. shows and where in GA? That's where I am now.


If I were you I'd start off with a stage 1 turbo kit and work your way up. And hell no I don't know about doing the 2.4, but I could help you with your turbo stuff.

thats because the stage 3 comes with forged internals, but you have to have them installed. I say do this. Get the hahn stage 2 with fmic, its $3000. that will teach you alot about your car and you will be a lot more comfortable working on it. I dunno if greddy makes an intercooler for the 2gnt, and If they did I couldnt see it being much better than the one from hahn. I can't remember what core the hahn ic uses. So get the stage 2 in, learn stuff, blow up your motor, then rebuild and run more boost! thats what i did... :thumbsup

etx that sounds tempting....

jwhit I'm waering a birthday suit, how bout you...

What would be my best bet?

a/s/l?


:7

LOL...I think she's to far away from us etx...at least for me anyway...besides I gotta chichy poo. But I do have to say this thread has definatly got more interesting.}(

hahaha

Woah! The stage 3 from HRC is $6k now!? I seem to remember when it was like $3800. What the fuck happened?

stage 3's bacially just stage 2 with a rebuild. after you rebuild with forged internals you can up the boost. if you get your engine rebuilt before hand, when you buy the stage 2 you're basically already at stage 3. you just up the boost.

the other kit that lotsa people go with is STAR. do some searching an you'll find lotsa info. you can save a bunch've money going the custom route if you like. with the kits you're paying for a lot of the R&D and the customer support. plus if you make your own custom setup you won't be throwing away parts that you don't like that come with a kit.

this thread is worthless without pics...

-marc

='95 RS 5spd Red=
Matrix CAI
A'pexi Turbo N1
Hanabi 8000k HID
SPAL Deluxe Power Windows
Nakayama GT5 17's
Ractive STB
GSX Calipers
AEM Rotors

255 is fricken short

etx and micyek I'd probubly be too much for you to handle... how many girls do you know that are into cars as much as I am?... ;-)

So what you guys are saying is that a stage 2 would be effient enough? Should I have the engine rebuilt? Downtime isnt a problem, I have another car... not too keen on sending it out though... Everyone has been telling me that the only way to learn is to do. I wish I had a teacher though to supervise and point out mistakes. I just may take a_miller_76 up, on him moving here. It's always a plus to find a DSMer that dosnt think "my car is better than yours".

the thing about getting it rebuilt by VT engines is they've got some state of the art equipment. checkout their site www.vtengines.com the 420a is one've the engines they specialize in so it's not like they're your typical machine shop. there's only so much you can do yourself without the right equipment (unless you've got a kick ass machine shop in your area that specializes in this kinda stuff). considering the price you'd pay for parts alone, $1645 for a full bottom end rebuild is pretty damn nice.

from VT's website:

Parts
Eagle Forged Connecting Rods
CP Custom Pistons
JE Rings
ARP Main Studs
Melling Oil Pump
Clevite 77 Main & Rod Bearings
Front & Rear Main Seal

Labor
Resurface Block on Rottler F65
Bore and Hone Block with torque plate on Rottler F65
Balance & Blueprint Assembly on Hines Machining System
Assemble Short Block


-marc

='95 RS 5spd Red=
Matrix CAI
A'pexi Turbo N1
Hanabi 8000k HID
SPAL Deluxe Power Windows
Nakayama GT5 17's
Ractive STB
GSX Calipers
AEM Rotors

255 is fricken short

VERY GOOD ADVICE. I HAD MY MACHINE WORK DONE AT A SHOP THAT OBVIOUSLY HAD NEVER INSTALLED TOTAL SEAL RINGS BEFORE B/C THEY DIDN'T HONE MY CYLINDERS RIGHT AND NOW AFTER A 1200 MILE BREAK IN MY CAR IS SMOKING AFTER BOOSTING, REAL BAD. SO MAKE SURE YOU GO TO A SHOP THAT HAS AT LEAST BUILT SOME RACE ENGINES.

AND DO YOU THINK I COULD HAVE A PIC OF WHAT YOU WERE WEARING YESTERDAY?}(

If you look on http://www.vtengines.com/mitsubishistroker1.htm is one of those any good?



Ya the sig is up, nothing spectacular. AND DOSNT WORK!

>If you look on
>http://www.vtengines.com/mitsubishistroker1.htm is one of
>those any good?
>

that's not for our cars. it's for the 4g63. VT is supposed to be coming out with 2.2 stroker shortblocks for us sometime soon. it's listed on faster than you's site with price TBA. i'm guessing they're waiting on VT.

*edit*
i stand corrected. checkout http://www.fasterthanyou.com/420A_engines.cfm
faster than you's got the 2.2 short blocks listed now for $2149 ($400 core). curious to see how this competes with howell...

-marc

='95 RS 5spd Red=
Matrix CAI
A'pexi Turbo N1
Hanabi 8000k HID
SPAL Deluxe Power Windows
Nakayama GT5 17's
Ractive STB
GSX Calipers
AEM Rotors

255 is fricken short

>etx and micyek I'd probubly be too much for you to handle...
>how many girls do you know that are into cars as much as I
>am?... ;-)
>
Any girl is too much for me to handle:P

Well believe me chica, your going to learn a lot just from pulling your block and installing another one. Even if you don't do the full rebuild yourself, you will still know your way around your engine bay. If I were you I would prolly buy a kit and learn that for a while, then buy a prebuilt block and drop it in so you can up the boost. Either way your car will be fast.