$3,000 dollars is alot of money and I dont want buy the kit and wish I had bought the other one. I know that people have bought both. So any help would be appriciated. I am leaning towards STAR because of there Downpipe, and Available Package Upgrades (ie. (E) spec upgrade and VC1 upgrade.)But HRC is tried and tested.Help cause one way or another I will be an 98' RS-T!!!

http://smkn95eclipsemwc.homestead.com/mainpage.html

Damm the HRC guys will tell you HRC, the Star guys will tell you Star. I say its a win/win situation here. Hrc is well tested and star is well priced.





Star Stage 2
2gnt where Crankwalk doesnt Exist.

Points taken. Tell me though what is the difference in turbos
16G compared to T3/T4 are they essentially the same size or different. I was told that the T3/T4 was basically a 18G is that right?

You can't go wrong with either one...

but if you want _direct_ tech support go with HRC (since they stand behind their product).

If you go with STAR, you're pretty much on your own...of course we're here to help though! :)

I have STAR btw.


l e o n

They are both good kits, in fact I had a very hard time choosing which one to get. It's just a matter of which one YOU like. The Star kit comes with a rather loud intank fuel pump, but then again, I have not heard HRC's kit. The HRC's kit ( I have heard ) requires welding when upgrading this kit to it's second level. But then again, Star's kit does not come with a Flex section in their down pipe. But it's said that you don't need one unless your pushing major power, and it's simple to add one.

Just do a lot of research and then choose which one you like better. I chose the Star Stage II kit cause I liked the price, and the chrome piping:-) Also, I like telling people I have a Ball Bearing Turbo:-) But you could also get the BB turbo from HRC (And it's just as durable as the one that comes with Star's)

Theres a good write up on the the comparison of both kits real in depth...you can find it on Wyatt's site or I believe its on the 2gnt home page under turbo, check it out...later

i had a hard time deciding which one i was gonna go with but i decided on star when i go to buy mine later this year. it boils down to basically this, both kits are basically equal, one kits downfall is anothers advantage and vice versa, so that extra cash you pay HRC is basically to pay their research costs and tech support guy's salaries.
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt

The reason I am going with HRC is simple:

I wanted a stage 1 kit for 5 psi, and it HAD to have a BOV. I can't imagine a turbo kit without a BOV. So HRC is my choice.

Jeff

http://gs.dsmpower.com

you can get the BOV with the star kit for next to nothing, but you really dont need it. youre probably wanting one for the same reason i am (sound)
http://www.geocities.com/blue2gnt

Well, since the 'comparison' on Wyatt's site has been brought up again, in the interest of equal time, here's some points to consider. The following points can be researched further in the archives of this forum and dsm.talk, as well as explained on our website (turbosystem.com):

Powerful, correct exhaust manifold design (symmetrical vs. offset log).
Detailed fuel system development and resultant engine longevity.
Intercooler options (SMIC or FMIC); larger FMIC with HRC.
Wastegate durability, effectiveness, and open discharge dangers.
Turbocharger efficiency, response, and modern design.
Properly equipped fuel system vs. turbocharger size option (no larger turbos without safe fuel system!)
ALL performance records for 420A engine vehicles.
Fuel Mapper (equivalent to VC1 but easier to install and use) included at no extra cost.
Intercooler pipe fit and quality.
Detailed extensive instructions with drawings and photos.
Downpipe durability (no cracking due to absence of flex joint).
Completely researched/fully equipped turbo and fuel system upgrade options for higher power levels later.
Extensive experience with Diamond Star vehicles and resultant customer assistance with many aspects of car other than turbosystem.
Access to daily available tech support from turbocharger and Diamond Star experts with decades of experience.

With even more support, development, records, and customer options to come!

Can anyone find a site from the manufacturers of the Star kit (not Wyatt's - he's a distributor)? Does the manufacturer of the kit come to our board and answer questions? HRC has been in the business of turbocharging for a long time. Come on they have an 11 second daily driver! I don't want anyone to think I'm putting the Star kit (or Wyatt) down in any way. I can't tell you which has better quality parts or which turbo is better, but if all things were equal HRC's presence here should be enough to make your mind up.


Lee
http://www.geocities.com/turbo99gs

HRC Stage II
Coming Soon!

yeah go with bill and his dope ass HRC kit..its well tested and now even at a lower price.

Bill you know we all support you, even me a star guy ;)I would of gotten your kit back then but unfortunately I had a bad experince. Lates

I like my star kit alot too though ;)





Star Stage 2
2gnt where Crankwalk doesnt Exist.

I'd go with HRC myself. one thing Mr. Hahn didn't mention is that thier stage 2 doesn't come with the FMIC but you have to pay extra for it. But with tech support, researched system and detailed instructions......ya can't beat that!

Chris
Project RS
http://klipzracer.homestead.com/index.html
"Life is short, rev hard!"
chrisdishmon@hotmail.com

As far as turbo selection I'm sure Turbonetics would give a list long of reasons why the turbo they carry is better as will Hahn on his Mitsus (As will Apexi with IHI or anybody else on the brand they carry). I haven't heard a company yet that cant give reasons why the brand they carry is better than everyone elses. If ordered with the proper options there isn't anything wrong with the Star kit out the box when used as directed and obviously still for less money (not much lesser if you pay MSRP but no one does with the Star). Thinks like flex joints, downpipes that aren't complete,VC1s and welding dump tubes into the exhaust are easily done for cheap and shouldn't be a variable in selecting a kit (which brings me to the point I want to make). If you dont know what your doing or getting into you need HRC and their support to carry you along as you progress with your car. The Star kit on the other hand is the kit for people who already know (or know how to find out) what they need to get where they want. So you pay less initially then make changes YOU want. If you know you want to push 15psi and nothing else get the Hahn. If you have a general idea make a personal choice. If YOU dont like garett turbos then obviously you shouldn't start with a kit that uses a Garett and vise-versa. Anything you dont like about either kit is changeable. Find out what would need changing with both kits to get where you want to be, then factor in how much you'll need to spend with either vs initial cost and make a choice. If you dont plan on going past stage 2 factor in cost vs what Hahn said (and what star might say if we knew who the hell they were) and make a choice. For me it was easy. I needed the cheapest way to get turbo'd initially (I didn't give a sh*t who made it and adv/dis. If someone was group selling Hahn kits for cheap I'd have that). From there I'll have to handle the rest with the help from around here and what I already know (or think I know).


Stan2gnt
Stan2va@aol.com
95 Talon ES-I-NOS but T soon!
http://members.nbci.com/FlyEsi/home.htm
You too can have a never updated site complete with old info and dated pics!

Well since my name has been brought up several times, I'm being called out. So here's my couple of cents:
I'd like to say that the arguments so far are nothing more than subjective.

It's all about personal taste. BOTH turbo manifolds could be made better. The star manifold isn't symmetrical but it doesn't crack or cause excessive heat in one particular area in the exhaust, but the Star is made of a stronger material so it can better combat the heat. Realistically this doesn't mean a Damn thing. If the HRC SS manifold is properly treated to take the heat and last then it's nothing to worry about. Some of you have also brought up the fuel "problem". The Star Kit was designed to run on 10lbs nothing more. It could be made "safer" but if it ain't broke so don't fix it. Our engines run rich enough to lean 6% stock w/o ANY detonation so the Star Kit provides ample fuel. The turbos are also subjective but as Stan said just about everyone who is pressurized who runs down the track uses a Garret design. Now as much as I know some of you HRC users will hate me saying this, the T3/T4(especially E) is more efficient. Turbo efficiency is based on CFM's and the Hybrid in the Star Kit is the more efficient turbo and capable of more power. All I have to say about this is who cares! My comparison was based on my experiences driving and physically INSTALLING BOTH kits. Albiet the HRC directions are flawless but I had no serious problems. The T3/T4 E trim that's available as an upgrade is dirt cheap through Wyatt. The Mitsubishi HI turbos also have a design flaw as compared to the "more efficient" Garret that has been reposted for us by Stan. It doesn't matter so far it has never happens. So this is only theory, but one that could happen. The Star also comes with thicker diameter piping and works on ANY 2GNT. The HRC doesn't and even requires welding when upgrading. The Star is equiped w/a FM intercooler at no extra cost. We also mentioned performance records. That means little since the Star Kit is available cheaper and with people who don't often go to the track. So I'd like to bring this in. Wyatt has recently installed a Stage1 Star that ran FIVE PSI and covered the quarter in 14.5s and ZERO INTERCOOLING. I haven't seen an HRC do that and it doesn't matter, but that's DAMN impressive and besides the point. The point is BOTH KITS are good and have their strong points and weak points. Both provide sportscar power at 10 psi and flow sufficient fuel, so purchasing a kit is just like buying a Car. Do your research and decide which one is right for you. If anyone has COMPLETELY read my review they would know that I wasn't "biased". I listed poor qualities and good qualities with each kit. The comparison not only helped people to decide to purchase Star Kits, it helped people get Hahn Kits as well. Check Wyatt's Guest book on his Website. I've also received email thanx for help and understanding. We are all good friends here, at least I'd like to think, so lets not make anything more than this, about the kits. This is obviously a questions that will be asked for a while(which kit is better) so lets make sure to properly educate. As I've written before I actually prefer MHI Turbos so I don't think my comparison was biased towards star. I mearly think the Star Kit is better capable of performance. All one needs are injectors, SAFC, boost and internals an could EASILY put 300HP to the wheels! Kinda exciting. With some more timing control 400HP is possible. Then again HRC has support but so does Star(Wyatt). HRC has also proven themselves with a 600HP VIPER STOMPING Neon.

Anyway - BILL - I'm slightly dissapointed in your actions. When YOU ASKED ME to email you with my comparison, you were given a chance to PERSONALLY dispute my "comparison"(as you like to refer to it).

You never did and that became your loss by your own decision not to respond.

I am a VERY cooperative person and you decided to ignore you opportunity. I would have changed it.

"Nothing against Skrilla, I just do not find the 'comparison' to be an objective statement based upon equal actual experience with both systems, nor is it composed from an unbiased expert's point of view."

Bill we are both intelligent people. Magazines spend their days writing about car performance to their subjective views even though almost NONE of them are engineers, have taken a driver's course or anything of the sort. Opinions are considered truth so long as it never succumbs to degradation and lies (freedom of speech) . So opinions are almost never based on unbiased expert's point of view and nor do they have to be.

With that said I find your statement to be a carless. I am always free to open discussion, especially when it was I lending you the helping hand. Still I have no hard feelings and continue to admire you work and are especially excited to to Len's 750HP+ Neon wup some A$$. Drop mail sometime.

Seeya...

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

Skrilla,

You've been cool to me overall, but the 'comparison' issue has been simmering with me for a while. I guess if my livelihood would not be potentially affected, and we were just arguing about opinions, I could be a bit looser. But with as much effort as my company has spent in the 420A arena, I am a bit raw about the whole thing.

HRC,

I've always appreciated all your input and your continued success with your pressurized 420a vehicles. I can understand what its like to maintain your business. I will admit after some of your points I was a bit "quick" to replying and so maybe a little hot. So kindly I've asked Wyatt to remove my turbo comparison for a future rewrite, which will include your most up to date products and news and more accurate information, I have found to be incorrect.

Thank you, again, for your help and our future endeavors.


Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

Gentlemen,

I must say thank you for the insite. The level of support i've seen here is incredible. I knew when I posted the message it would be a topic of much debate, but I honestly needed some insite as to what people had to say respectively about these kits. I know that whatever turbo kit I decide on should I need assistance or advise the people of this forum will be there to help.

Thanks,

J.P.