Well guys, got the car fired up on Saturday to make sure everything was set fine, had a very very rough idle, I would try to slowly rev up the car and it would crap out on me at 2K and drop the rpms to idle automatically, but if I romped on the gas, it would go up just fine. Got it all back together Saturday night around 10:00pm and went for a spin. On the freeway car is cruising, exhaust sounds different, but awesome, very smooth. A/C is on full blast, the car is not overheating at all!!

I pull off the freeway to turn around, I pull through an intersection, waiting for the light to turn back on to the freeway and my check engine light comes on...WTF...look at the coolant temp and it is soaring, just sitting there, so I turn off the A/C it drops a tiny bit, I pull onto the onramp and it is screaming high, so I shut it down, throw on the hazards and throw up the hood. Steam follows, the upper radiator hose blew off...dammit.

I call up my girlfriend to come rescue me so I can go get some water. I throw about a gallon and a half of water into the system and drive her back home.

Sunday:
Throw in the water wetter and some antifreeze to top the system off. Girlfriend and I drive to church, everything seems fine, but no need for very much A/C. Drive back home at around 12:30, it's about 105* outside and my temps start climbing. Turn the A/C back down to the first notch and the temp going to just above normal....all that work I did was for nothing.

My Options:
1) Antifreeze mixture is too much water, probably around 75% water right now, need to throw in more antifreeze.
2) Stock A/C fan just isn't going to cut it, need to get a spal ASAP



fuck I hate this car.


...at least it doesn't look like there is any more oil in my antifreeze.



:(


Any more suggestions, greatly appreciated.

Interesting........to say the least.

Does it overheat at idle and while cruising or just while cruising?

maybe try building a sheet metal shroud???

The water/antifreeze ratio is fine. You actually want about 80% water/20% antifreeze. The more water, the better the cooling.

Originally posted by eclipzGST
The water/antifreeze ratio is fine. You actually want about 80% water/20% antifreeze. The more water, the better the cooling.

Exactly, it's called anti-freeze for a reason, to keep it from getting TOO COLD.

Originally posted by BigBald
Interesting........to say the least. Does it overheat at idle and while cruising or just while cruising?

Never at idle, and never while cruising with the A/C turned off. So far, only when the A/C is cranked up. It used to do it when I would go WOT in 3rd/4th/5th gear, but I haven't done that yet because I haven't retuned the car yet. I'm set at 15psi and only had a 18psi or 21psi settings saved on my laptop.

here is the easiest solution, stop using the a/c.....
:shrug

other than that, keep us posted.

Do you even need antifreeze when temps stay in the 100's ?
Are you sure you had enuff coolant in the system from the get go ? When you first put it in , did you turn the heat on high to let the thermostat open so the coolant could go threw the entire car ? Did you pressure test the car ?


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Originally posted by Remy
Do you even need antifreeze when temps stay in the 100's ? Are you sure you had enuff coolant in the system from the get go ? When you first put it in , did you turn the heat on high to let the thermostat open so the coolant could go threw the entire car ? Did you pressure test the car ? WWW.CNNMOTORSPORTS.COM

I'm prety sure you should leave some coolant in the mix because I think it lowers the boiling point. And usually, overheating problems occur when the car is at an idle when there is no air flowing through the radiator. I'm pretty sure you changed the thermostat, yes? I don't feel like going back and re-reading everything...

Don't be so down on yourself.

Your problem is fixed.

A blown HG solved.

You car doesn't overheat at idle it doesn't overheat with the A/C off and it doesn't overheat with A/C on low.

What are the Temps according to DSMlink when the A/C is on the first notch where you said the temps were a little above normal.

Another thing to check, Are both of your fans turning on when you turn the A/C on?

I was just thinking. Maybe your fan is not spinning as fast as it should be causing you to over heat . Maybe your blower is blowing high but your fan is not.

Check that.
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Yeah, I only have these same problems when I only have my one fan in.

I dunno...I know I need to replace the stock A/C fan with a spal, since I have the normal fan replaced already, but I'm going to go into DSMlink and turn both fans on full time and see if that help. At least I will know I have a potential fan problem that way.

:shrug Kinda out of ideas here...cut front bumper???

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
I dunno...I know I need to replace the stock A/C fan with a spal, since I have the normal fan replaced already, but I'm going to go into DSMlink and turn both fans on full time and see if that help. At least I will know I have a potential fan problem that way. :shrug Kinda out of ideas here...cut front bumper???

buahahahahhahahahaha.....this whole thread is just funny to me. I hate to see that you are still having issues, but i am not at all suprised that you are.

Honestly, before you cut the bumper, I would try running a second spal fan and make sure they both turn on simitaneously. It sounds like you might just need a better a/c fan.

Also, if you find your coolant offset box in DSMlink, put a value of 30 in there. What this does is add that value to whatever you temps are. The ECU will then think you are running at a higher temp then you actually are. once you past the 200-210, it will turn on your fans. So for example, if you coolant temps are at 170-180 coolant offset will add the value of 30 to it and cause you fans to be turned on. This should also help keep temps at bay. Try these two suggestions and see what happens for you.

Already put the 30 value in there last weekend, fan doesn't seem to be coming on any sooner on the stock fan, don't know about the A/C fan, because the car has to be on, and I just haven't tested it to tell you the truth.

But I will be looking at all options before I cut the front bumper up. Like buying a spal.

sell it and buy a non turbo... :order lol had to throw that in there... Hope you get it figured out soon.

Originally posted by FlyinEsi
Already put the 30 value in there last weekend, fan doesn't seem to be coming on any sooner on the stock fan, don't know about the A/C fan, because the car has to be on, and I just haven't tested it to tell you the truth. But I will be looking at all options before I cut the front bumper up. Like buying a spal.

So you don't have the fans wired to come on together? Are you still running a thermostat?

I had the same overheating problem because I only had one fan on my radiator. The small gap created by my front mount and the radiator was causing air to escape underneath the car instead of straight to the radiator. I built a plastic shroud for the gap and bought a slimline fan and have had no problems with overheating since then. If the overheating is gradual, this will fix your problem. If the temperature is drastically changing, replace your thermostat. good luck...

Originally posted by scottfreeman80
I built a plastic shroud for the gap and bought a slimline fan and have had no problems with overheating since then.

Any pics of this?

Originally posted by BigBald

Originally posted by FlyinEsi Already put the 30 value in there last weekend, fan doesn't seem to be coming on any sooner on the stock fan, don't know about the A/C fan, because the car has to be on, and I just haven't tested it to tell you the truth. But I will be looking at all options before I cut the front bumper up. Like buying a spal.

So you don't have the fans wired to come on together? Are you still running a thermostat?

Okay, I went into DSMlink and set both fans to come on every time I turn on the car, regardless of temperature, still overheating. Both fans are definitely working.

Yes, I'm using a thermostat. 180 Degree Failsafe thermostat.

offset is at 30* but doesn't matter since I have both fans on anyway.

Still overheating.

I'm going to take off my front bumper when I get back from San Diego this weekend, drive around like that and see if I really have an airflow problem. If I overheat with that bumper off, then I have another problem somewhere.

Originally posted by FlyinEsi. I'm going to take off my front bumper when I get back from San Diego this weekend, drive around like that and see if I really have an airflow problem. If I overheat with that bumper off, then I have another problem somewhere.

lol. Ya think? :wary
cough*fluidyne*cough

i was having the same problem. my fluidyne should be here this weekend and ill let you know if it solves my problem :)

Originally posted by eclipzGST

Originally posted by FlyinEsi. I'm going to take off my front bumper when I get back from San Diego this weekend, drive around like that and see if I really have an airflow problem. If I overheat with that bumper off, then I have another problem somewhere.

lol. Ya think? :wary cough*fluidyne*cough

Keep up on the topic man, I just put in a brand new fluidyne last weekend. :(

Drove to work with my front bumper off, temps still came up a tiny little bit, but the true test will be when I go home at 110* outside.

What are you looking for as far as temps go? And at exactly what point do they start to rise uncontrollably?

The only other thing I can suggest is you do what I did and remove your thermostat. This will keep coolant flow constant throughout the system. Some people do believe otherwise with that theory like the coolant needs to be slowed down and stuff along those lines. Its worth a shot if nothing else and takes all of 10 minutes to try.

why would you want to slow down the coolant flow? maybe we should get the engine an ice pack too.... :rolleyes ;-)

Originally posted by Diceman19
why would you want to slow down the coolant flow? maybe we should get the engine an ice pack too.... :rolleyes ;-)

Hey, I don't make this stuff up. Some poeple think that is why the thermostat is there. It slows it down enough to actually let it cool down. I am not a believer in that hence why my thermostat is gone.


Also, Dan....you may want to start looking into a hood vent of a aftermarket hood with vents. Hopefully, you will be able to pinpoint the problem before then. How long have you been in Az and is this the first time your car has seen these temps?

I've been in AZ since January, and my car was starting to act up in Wyoming before I left, but I bought a truck and garaged the car for the winter.

As far as temps go, it will sit at normal going down the freeway for like 20 seconds after I first turn on the A/C and then it will climb. Check engine light comes on at 234* and I turn off the A/C immediately.

I've got the front bumper off the car and it's like 100+ right now so I'm going to see how my temps do. I can't possibly get any more air going to this bitch than I'm getting right now. Got a bad feeling though.

I'll be out to San Diego for the weekend, so I'll check for any more suggestions when I get back. Car can sit and rott in the garage all weekend for all I care.

Watch the For Sale section...it's getting real tempting now. I can afford something new, with warranty, and will work.

Edit: The car is also overheating w/o the A/C on if I'm going over like 85mph or if I'm real hard on it in 3rd/4th/or 5th.

Seriously....pull the thermostat and see what happens with constant coolant flow through the car.

The thermostat serves a few purposes. It helps the engine warup faster on initial startup and it also keeps the engine in the optimal heat range. You really dont want a cold engine. Cold engines use more fuel, get stuck in open loop which changes fuel calculations and timing strategies, causes premature parts wear and sludges oil. Also, slowing down the coolant flow allows for proper heat transfer at the optimal running temperature. Sure, if you remove it, it'll run cooler, but that's not really good. The slower flowing coolant will transfer heat more effectively at full operating temperatures. And actually, you want to raise the boiling point, not lower it. If you lowered it, the coolant would boil sooner, which causes cavitation and other bad things. Thats why you have a radiator cap that puts the system under pressure. For every PSI, you get a 2 degree raise in the boiling point.

what is the optimal operating temp? is it 190?

It was a suggestion....he can do and believe what he wants.

Originally posted by BMPDirk
what is the optimal operating temp? is it 190?

I believe since our thermostats are 180*, then optimal operating temp would be 180.

Jerrome, thanks for the suggestion to remove the thermostat, but since I have my temps under control with the bumper off, I have my problem right there.

I just ordered a 12" spal fan from RRE, should be here early next week probably, and I'm going to work on some custom panels to try to force more air through the a/c condensor. I'll keep you guys posted. I'm actually kind of excited about this project.

Reprint from an article I found:
The next most common myth is: I have to slow the water down to help it cool. If this is the case; some is good more is better. Just stop the water. As silly as this sounds there people that suggest you do exactly that. Remember what you are cooling. You are not cooling the water you are cooling the engine. A running engine develops a lot of heat. The exhaust temperatures on well tuned race engine can be at 1300 degrees. On the other side of that exhaust port is a water jacket. If the water was to move too slow or be stopped, it would take no time at all for the heat to be transferred to the water. The best coolant and the best pressurized system will still have a boiling point below 300 degrees. Temperatures this high will mean that a steam pocket will develop and continue to grow until the heat source is removed or a large amount of coolant is brought to the area to soak up the heat and resultant steam pocket. This is the reason I tell anyone who drag races to not use a thermostat. If the water is stopped while you are at full throttle, these hot spots will cause detonation. Even though you can’t hear detonation on most race engines, your time slip will reflect it. If you find yourself saying “my car ran 3 to 4 off for no reason” this may be your answer.

The higher the water flow the better for cooling. Remember a water pump’s job is to move the hot water out of the block to the radiator. The radiators job is to remove the heat from the water and pass it into the air stream. If you get a 15 degree drop across the radiator at 20 gallons per minute and a 10 degree drop at 50 gallons per minute you cooled more water at the higher flow. During a drag race, (short burst at full throttle) if the heat exchanger (radiator) can’t keep up, very little or no degrade would be noticed. If the tables are turned; the water pump can’t keep up, your ET and consistency will suffer greatly. The reason is, if the water temperature increased from 170 to 190 in 9 seconds, this would stay well within the tune up on the engine. If the water pump was not pumping enough water the metal around the combustion chamber may go up several hundred degrees.

Take it how you want it......

Originally posted by BigBald

Reprint from an article I found: The next most common myth is: I have to slow the water down to help it cool. If this is the case; some is good more is better. Just stop the water. As silly as this sounds there people that suggest you do exactly that. Remember what you are cooling. You are not cooling the water you are cooling the engine. A running engine develops a lot of heat. The exhaust temperatures on well tuned race engine can be at 1300 degrees. On the other side of that exhaust port is a water jacket. If the water was to move too slow or be stopped, it would take no time at all for the heat to be transferred to the water. The best coolant and the best pressurized system will still have a boiling point below 300 degrees. Temperatures this high will mean that a steam pocket will develop and continue to grow until the heat source is removed or a large amount of coolant is brought to the area to soak up the heat and resultant steam pocket. This is the reason I tell anyone who drag races to not use a thermostat. If the water is stopped while you are at full throttle, these hot spots will cause detonation. Even though you can’t hear detonation on most race engines, your time slip will reflect it. If you find yourself saying “my car ran 3 to 4 off for no reason” this may be your answer. The higher the water flow the better for cooling. Remember a water pump’s job is to move the hot water out of the block to the radiator. The radiators job is to remove the heat from the water and pass it into the air stream. If you get a 15 degree drop across the radiator at 20 gallons per minute and a 10 degree drop at 50 gallons per minute you cooled more water at the higher flow. During a drag race, (short burst at full throttle) if the heat exchanger (radiator) can’t keep up, very little or no degrade would be noticed. If the tables are turned; the water pump can’t keep up, your ET and consistency will suffer greatly. The reason is, if the water temperature increased from 170 to 190 in 9 seconds, this would stay well within the tune up on the engine. If the water pump was not pumping enough water the metal around the combustion chamber may go up several hundred degrees.

Take it how you want it......

That would be a good solution, IF, he only drag raced his car and didn't have to drive it daily. Re-read the article. ;)

hmmm....since it is happening while he is driving what difference will it make? It does mention drag racing, but it still applies normal driving and would work the same.

Anyway, his main concern is airflow and this was just an answer to the slowing the coolant down theory that so many believe in. I am not here to start a 3 page argument in semantics of the article. You can choose whether or not you think/believe this will work on a daily driver.

i bought a 160 degree thermostat the other day from advance.

On a 2G the stock themostat opens a little at 180 and fully opens at 195.

What people recommend stopping the water? Thats retarded. It has to circulate to the radiator so it can be transferred to the atmosphere by way of radiation. Yeah, slow it down some, but not stop it. The two main reasons behind restricting flow is to allow for proper heat transfer and to regulate the temp. Keep it open too long, it gets too cool, keep it closed too long, it gets hot. Its a regulator.
"The best coolant and the best pressurized system will still have a boiling point below 300 degrees. Temperatures this high will mean that a steam pocket will develop and continue to grow until the heat source is removed or a large amount of coolant is brought to the area to soak up the heat and resultant steam pocket."
I agree with this. He's not saying cooler is better. He's talking about extremely high temps causing the water to boil and steam pockets developing. New non aqueous coolants like NPG have solved this, doesnt boil until around 375 degrees. On your daily driver street car, normal operating temps wont cause this condition. If this is happening, something else is wrong and needs to be looked at. I can see and understand leaving a thermostat out of drag car due to the tremendous loads and near instant heat the engine receives, but it only receives these loads for a brief period. For a daily driver I highly discourage leaving the thermostat out. In his case, it would only mask another problem, and that is no way to solve an issue. Your daily driver isnt under the kinds of pressures and stress that a drag car is, and isnt under full load all the time. A drag car runs for seconds at a time, and thats it. Constant idling and cruising with a cold engine will wear internal parts out quick as shit. One thing he said though caught my eye. Tuned race engines running 1300 degrees? That signifies an overly rich, poor tune to me. Tuned on the ragged edge drag cars run much hotter than that. Your mom's Camry putts down the freeway at around 1450 degrees. I guess she must be running on steam only.

ok, not to ninja this thread, but i was having the same type of overheating problems after my FMIC install...

the culprit of all my problems was the huge heavy ass metal bumper support. i cut the living crap out of it to get as good of flow as i could through to the radiator and my problems went away. granted i now have a fluidyne, 2 slimline fans, 160 degree thermostat and well i think thats it. i wish i took some pictures of how much i cut off that support. but its more or less just a metal bar the plastic bumper bolts to now.

my coolant temps stay right around 206-209. even with pretty hard ass driving. anyway, i was pretty frustrated by the entire thing, but it makes sense. i wish there was a way to get better airflow through to the radiator, but there really isnt, at least on a 1g car.

im very happy the car is drivable now :) cheers.

Do you have a Greddy big FMIC??? I have a big ass tube running in front of my front mount...do you have the same?

i have no idea what you are talking about with a big ass tube running in front of your IC.

Originally posted by soulcontroller
i have no idea what you are talking about with a big ass tube running in front of your IC.

His IC piping runs across the front of his FMIC at the top just under the bumper cover.

wow.....airflow was the culprit....who would have thunk it.....:rolleyes

Originally posted by BigBald
wow.....airflow was the culprit....who would have thunk it.....:rolleyes

Yup, and I'm sure he'll be able to solve the problem w/out making his car look like a block of swiss. ;)

Originally posted by eclipzGST

Originally posted by BigBald wow.....airflow was the culprit....who would have thunk it.....:rolleyes

Yup, and I'm sure he'll be able to solve the problem w/out making his car look like a block of swiss. ;)

I hope he doesn't have to cut it too much...but it doesn't work like that for everyone tho. And i am sure the front of my car doesn't look like swiss cheese either. I am also sure that you would only know what the rear of it looks like.....but hey, at least you will still look good right..... :thumbsup