my first mod completed was the cutting of the dump tube. sounded like it made a huge difference while in my garage, but on the road it went back to barely any "woosh."

i really don't get why vfaq.com tells you to remove the intake tubing when you can just take off the cbv to intake tube connector off and remove the dump tube from there...it took me like 10 minutes to finish without removing the intake tubing.

i also order a k&n filter today so i'll put that on tomorrow. but i was wondering how do you make the intake from wobbling all over without the filter box. do i have to make my own braket?

next:
-new bov (probably with hard UICP)
-boost contoller w/boost guage
-255lph fp
-A/F ratio guage
(egt after new manifold from below items)

then after i pay for plates and get more money:
-3" exhaust
-S16g with ported manifold and install kit
-probably hahn SMIC with hard lower ICP
-lsd
-either 550cc or 625cc injectors
-safc
sound good so far?

now a few more questions :)
-am i safe with stock motor...can't it handle 450hp or so?
-do you recommend a new fuel rail?
-do you recommend a new intake mani?
-what is the size of a stock TB?
-and what does the fuel rewire kit do?(i know what is, but what does it benefit?)
-sorry for all the questions

thanks ALOT! for any advice.(besides search FOOLS!! :p )

There's another freebies also you can do:
Removing the restrictor from the BCS will get you another 1-1.5 psi of boost.
future list sounds good. I wouldn't worry about the pump yet until you get new injectors and such.
I would do this:
K&N or other cone filter
UIP w/BOV
Boost guage
rewire stock fuel pump
MBC
Cat back
test pipe/high flow cat
down pipe
pocketlogger
EGT guage
S-AFC

Then, I would do these next few all at the same time:
turbo
injectors
fuel pump

if you do those in order, you'll have what you need when you need it.

Oh, and to answer a few of you ques...
Stock fuel rail is fine*
Stock intake mani is fine*
Stock TB is fine*
**There's a point that you will outgrow these, It shouldn't be for quite awhile.
Rewire basically bypasses the cheesy small ass wire with some good thick stuff that will deliver a nice clean supply of power to your fuel pump when you start adding more boost and need more fuel. ;)

please dont waste $800 on a hahn smic

cool, thanks. the reason i'm planning on putting in the fuel pump now(or sooner than usual) is becuase i already have it from the kit i was putting on my gs. it won't hurt anything will it?

do you have to keep the cbv to intake tube connector hose on? i know the car almost dies without it, but is there a way around it?

and why not the smic? it's a hell of alot wider than stock and can handle up to 400hp. and it's acually $500. i guess i don't see why not :shrug

because you can get a greddy fmic kit for $500(used on ebay or dsmtrader) or you can just buy a supra smic and it will do the same thing for about $100

to answer your question about the K&N intake...it comes with it's own bracket that bolts up to one of the holes that the stock airbox came from. do you have a 1g or 2g?

No you can't just remove the BOV dump tube. That is the most common question asked on DSM boards. Just keep it on :)

The 4G63 is safe to around 400-450hp when properly modified.

Stock TB size on 2Gs is 52mm. You can get a 1g TB which is 60mm as an upgrade.

Stock intake manifold is fine.

Stock fuel rail runs 8's at least. It is fine as well.

Fuel pump rewire kit just runs larger gage wire to the fuel pump from the battery. The larger the wire, the more power can get to the pump. More power, more fuel. Get the idea? :)


Also, don't feel that you HAVE to go with Hahn just because you used to have a 420a. Hahn makes great products, but there are others out there just as good for a lot less money.

i wanted an upgraded smic as well, but after talking to several people about it, it's a waste of money. Buddy of mine had a hahn smic and when he was on the dyno after a few pulls he said it became heat soked at only 18psi on his ported/clipped big 16g.

i took out the BCS restrictor last night after looking into it too. the auto parts store accidently ordered the k&N filter that goes inside the air box so i ordered the fpik, it should be here on saturday. does $117 sound like a good price for the fpik?

(it's a 2g 5-speed for the people wondering)

i don't know what i'll do with the IC now. if i go side mount i'll look into supra. don't know about front mount.

do any of you run greddy profec b's, spec 1 or 2, do you like them?

Get a manual boost controller. $50. Don't pay a penny more for boost control.

www.boostcontroller.com. I have a Hallman and love it.

Also, boost gauge should be the first thing you buy. The factory ones are garbage, so "knowing" boost levels is ultra important.



Also, DO NOT vent the BOV to the atmosphere. Just don't. Hook the recirculation tube back up and leave her there.

Originally posted by HybriDSM
Get a manual boost controller. $50. Don't pay a penny more for boost control. www.boostcontroller.com. I have a Hallman and love it. Also, boost gauge should be the first thing you buy. The factory ones are garbage, so "knowing" boost levels is ultra important. Also, DO NOT vent the BOV to the atmosphere. Just don't. Hook the recirculation tube back up and leave her there.

ur just jealous of my blitz dual SBC sucka lol.. MBC are good.. either way with boost controllers its hit or miss.. EBC u adjust 'gain' with the controller and it does it for you, mbc.. you gotta go turn the knob urself.. depends on your money...

also.. dont buy anything HAHN for a DSM, that includes thier turbos. they make a couple nice items.. but nothing worth your while. buschur, AMS, slowboy, raodrace engineering, etc.. check those people out first.

Originally posted by 2hot97GS

Originally posted by HybriDSM Get a manual boost controller. $50. Don't pay a penny more for boost control. www.boostcontroller.com. I have a Hallman and love it. Also, boost gauge should be the first thing you buy. The factory ones are garbage, so "knowing" boost levels is ultra important. Also, DO NOT vent the BOV to the atmosphere. Just don't. Hook the recirculation tube back up and leave her there.

ur just jealous of my blitz dual SBC sucka lol.. MBC are good.. either way with boost controllers its hit or miss.. EBC u adjust 'gain' with the controller and it does it for you, mbc.. you gotta go turn the knob urself.. depends on your money...

:D :bowdown

congrats! once the modding starts...it wont stop....be prepared to spend your paycheck before you get it ;)

Originally posted by 2hot97GS
also.. dont buy anything HAHN for a DSM, that includes thier turbos. they make a couple nice items.. but nothing worth your while. buschur, AMS, slowboy, raodrace engineering, etc.. check those people out first.

Whats wrong with the Hahn FMIC???

i want to go with a greddy EBC becuase i want to be able to set low boost for 1st gear, then hit the remote for high boost when i can get more traction. i think being able to do that is worth the money. i'll probably get the their turbo timer while i'm at it too.

lol, i'm still really baffled by this dump tube :P . with the car running like shit without it mean that the computer is giving the turbo a bunch of intercooled air as well as the intake air? i need a legit answer as to why you cannot just block off the dump tube hole and vent the bov to the atmosphere, please. and can't you change the MAS to allow no dump tube? sorry for all the gay questions you don't wanna hear but i've got to learn somehow!

*edit - i'm not asking becuase i want it louder(even though the sound makes me horny), but becuase of just the plain fact of WHY it is necessary.

the bov spits the air back into the intake, if you did not, the spewed air would not be accounted for, the computer would think the engien is getting a certain amount of air when it actually isnt. does that make sense to you?

Ok here is the true info on venting to atmosphere.

Some 4g63 can do it some cannot...there is no true reason why, you just ave to try it.

Some will cough and sputter because the maf is reading incomming air and richens the fuel making the car run super rich the second the bov opens until it closes. However, some ECU's are content with this....I have personally done it to a friends GST spyder and no problems for 2 years. You just have to try it.

the 4g63 will handle 500chp its proven but it must be tuned correctly, like the 420a it will not deal with knock at all, i mean at all.

You must add to your mods.....remove the balence shafts. cheapest way is to leave them in but remove the belts, its safe to do. I personally like to remove the motor and use the kit but its ok to just leave them there as long as you dont mind the weight staying in the motor. The balence shafts cannot handle any abuse, the bearings go to shit real fast.

port your exhaust manifold and turbine side of turbo...makes a difference later on in that motor. not saying pay a shit load just do it if you know how or a friend does. Manual boost controller is nice, i personally like the HKS or on the cheap i like the turbo xs dual stage....its all preference.

Most important......once a year drop your oil pan and watch for signs of crank walk! Be good to her and she will be good to you...lol had to throw that in there....

DO NOT REMOVE THE HEAT SHIELDS on the turbo......documented that the rad fans get ruined by the heat. now i know a guy here in IL that makes some nice shields to replace the ugly ones.

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Ok here is the true info on venting to atmosphere. Some 4g63 can do it some cannot...there is no true reason why, you just ave to try it.

ugh. :rolleyes YES, there IS a reason why. The MAF reads incoming air. The ecu provides fuel for that amount of air. When you vent some of that air, you have extra fuel.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
cheapest way is to leave them in but remove the belts, its safe to do.

LOL. since when?

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
The balence shafts cannot handle any abuse, the bearings go to shit real fast.

:scratch

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
DO NOT REMOVE THE HEAT SHIELDS on the turbo......documented that the rad fans get ruined by the heat.

:shrug

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
once a year drop your oil pan and watch for signs of crank walk!

Are you kidding me???

Originally posted ugh. :rolleyes YES, there IS a reason why. The MAF reads incoming air. The ecu provides fuel for that amount of air. When you vent some of that air, you have extra fuel.

ok, some reason that made something in my brain click and made a lot of sense, BUT if the dump tube comes into the intake tube AFTER the MAF(MAF and MAS are the same thing right, Mass Air Flow or Mass Airflow Sensor, or something like that right?) how does it read it? and why can't it just take in more air from the intake tubing? this thing is gay :( . and what about changing the MAF to be able to vent...you can do this right? imma search tomorrow.

i have a GST btw Star.

*edit - how do you post at the bottom of the thread when you reply with quote from a post that are a couple of post up? :)

Originally posted by eclipzGST

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon Ok here is the true info on venting to atmosphere. Some 4g63 can do it some cannot...there is no true reason why, you just ave to try it.

ugh. :rolleyes YES, there IS a reason why. The MAF reads incoming air. The ecu provides fuel for that amount of air. When you vent some of that air, you have extra fuel.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon cheapest way is to leave them in but remove the belts, its safe to do.

LOL. since when?

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon The balence shafts cannot handle any abuse, the bearings go to shit real fast.

:scratch

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon DO NOT REMOVE THE HEAT SHIELDS on the turbo......documented that the rad fans get ruined by the heat.

:shrug

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon once a year drop your oil pan and watch for signs of crank walk!

Are you kidding me???

Tony i said it was the cheapest way not the best way. quite a few guys on chicago dsm have left the front shaft in and remove the back with no kit. yeah there is more to it then just whats stated but it works, to me it seems like another seal that can leak. i have done the RRE kit and to me its the best way and most safest. As for the bearings....most guys around here (chicago) have had them go out shortly after the mid 11 sec marker.....coincidence possibly? Same thing with heat shields, seems ike everyone who takes one off has the damn radiator fans going out. Me persoally no problems first hand on that one.

As for dropping the pan....i am paranoid what can i say.

Terry




96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Terrible Shit Misinformation

This is horrendous. I am sorry but all of that you posted is wrong.

Venting to Atmosphere: The MAS on 1gs and 2gs is before the BOV, which means air is counted before the BOV. If air that has been counted that all of a sudden leaves the system (vented), it causes super rich conditions which cause the car to run poorly. venting can be done using a VPC or GM MAF which counts air after the BOV, not before. It uses a straight intake pipe with no petering on it, and puts the metering device after the BOV just before the Throttle Body.

Also, taking off just the balance shaft belt without removing the shafts themselves is terrible advice. The Shafts themselves must be removed once the belt is removed.


Also crankwalk tests are done without dropping the oil pan. You measure lateral play in the crank as the clutch is depressed at the end of the crank. That is how you test for CW.

Oh and as for welding differentials, you can run it on the street but it is not at all designed for that. Turning with welded diffs is not what they were designed for. The wheels MUST spin at the same rate when the diffs are welded.

Even if all this info was correct, it is so far out of order as far as modding a 4g that it's silly. It's like steps 65, 87, and 94 put as 1,2,3.

Cant remeer if you have an AWD.....if you do have the VC (viscous coupler) welded.

Terry
96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon
Cant remeer if you have an AWD.....if you do have the VC (viscous coupler) welded.

:wallbash dude, are you alright? lol.
Welded VC is for track cars that see little street use. Or at least something that will never make sharp corners.

There are a lot of guys here is Chicago that do it, they are street cars too.

Terry

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

I wonder if I can ban someone from posting in a particular section of the board.

Star Turbo Talon, every single thing you said is horribly wrong. All of it. Everything. You are the worst ever. Just stop now.


You can NOT just take off the balance shaft belt.

The only cars that can *sometimes* vent to the atmosphere are automatic cars because their throttle plates do not close between shifts. This helps them not stall under normal daily driving conditions. Other than that, every DSM will react the same.

etc, etc, etc.

To everyone in this forum:

Do NOT listen to Star Turbo Talon. He is a complete fucktard and does not know what he is talking about. Until he actually learns ANYTHING, he will be considered a liability to the 1g/4g63 forum.

(I feel bad for the 420a guys too!)

:brokeoff

wowey, thanks for in jumpin guys, the only thing that Star said that made sense to me was "port your exhaust manifold." then i was back to :scratch . does anybody know if the pacesetter headers are any good?

i totally get the MAF reading now, thanks.

i also got the fipk on today, feels and sounds like a very good difference.

i'm putting on my cross-drilled slotted rotors, gunmetal 17" rims, CF evo hood, hks ss bov, boost guage, A/F ratio guage, and maybe the fuel pump this weekend. i was wondering, does the S-AFC measure A/F ratio too or not?

TIA, later

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks
does anybody know if the pacesetter headers are any good?

they don't make headers for our cars. There are a few "tubular manifolds" out there but are prone to cracking from the weight of the turbo.

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks
does the S-AFC measure A/F ratio too or not?

yes, by doing the "blue wire mod". You take the blue wire on the S-AFC harness that you normally wouldn't use and tap it to the front o2 wire going to the ECU. I've heard it's inaccurate though. :shrug
If you'r going to be using the blinky-blicky A/F guage, it'll be the same wire. Before anyone else says it, the blinky-blinky guage kind of sucks for tuning since you don't see an actual value and just a flashing light.

yeah i didn't mean "headers" that go down to a down pipe but the "headers" that go down to the turbo. they call them "headers" for the tubular design, that's why i said that. they look pretty bad ass. i'll check into those later, i have too many mods wondering around in my head, it's not even funny.

Originally posted by Jeff_99gs
I wonder if I can ban someone from posting in a particular section of the board. Star Turbo Talon, every single thing you said is horribly wrong. All of it. Everything. You are the worst ever. Just stop now. You can NOT just take off the balance shaft belt. The only cars that can *sometimes* vent to the atmosphere are automatic cars because their throttle plates do not close between shifts. This helps them not stall under normal daily driving conditions. Other than that, every DSM will react the same. etc, etc, etc. To everyone in this forum: Do NOT listen to Star Turbo Talon. He is a complete fucktard and does not know what he is talking about. Until he actually learns ANYTHING, he will be considered a liability to the 1g/4g63 forum. (I feel bad for the 420a guys too!)

Ok you say you cant just remove the belt....then why are people doing it? please oh great one tell me why people are doing it and it works. As for the BOV...makes sense i never studied whether cars were auto or not. And as for porting the exhaust manifold and turbo....AMS has been doing it for years to eliminate boost spiking so wht is that a bad idea please fill me in.

Terry


96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Holy be-jesus. Go to www.vfaq.com and just start reading all of it. Then in your free time, re-read it. Thats what I do. Right now you are asking us the most common dsm mistake's and when we tell you the answer you go "oh...well how about *insert common misconception here*". Just do some god damn research.

Originally posted by Star Turbo Talon Ok you say you cant just remove the belt....then why are people doing it? please oh great one tell me why people are doing it and it works.

http://www.ecanfix.com/~mdhamilton/balanceshaft.html
I found that link off of VFAQ.com. You guys should read EVERYTHING there at least twice...

Originally posted by burntheblobs
Holy be-jesus. Go to www.vfaq.com and just start reading all of it. Then in your free time, re-read it. Thats what I do. Right now you are asking us the most common dsm mistake's and when we tell you the answer you go "oh...well how about *insert common misconception here*". Just do some god damn research.

wtf? i never once asked the same question twice that was answered. i just didn't understand the the technical reason for the dump tube and some people jumped in and helped me out. the other stuff was just askin about different things about different products and i just added what i was doing with my car for advice for the hell of it. and i've always searched so FU. and i've already read most of that site but i asked becuase i couldn't find it so FU again you effin effer. :+

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks

Originally posted by burntheblobs Holy be-jesus. Go to www.vfaq.com and just start reading all of it. Then in your free time, re-read it. Thats what I do. Right now you are asking us the most common dsm mistake's and when we tell you the answer you go "oh...well how about *insert common misconception here*". Just do some god damn research.

wtf? i never once asked the same question twice that was answered. i just didn't understand the the technical reason for the dump tube and some people jumped in and helped me out. the other stuff was just askin about different things about different products and i just added what i was doing with my car for advice for the hell of it. and i've always searched so FU. and i've already read most of that site but i asked becuase i couldn't find it so FU again you effin effer. :+

man this section has some reeeeal tense individuals.....too much coffee for some of you...lol

96 Eagle talon ESI
Star Stage II - Boost/oil/EGT gauges

97 Eclipse
Greddy header - Apexi N1 3" exhaust - SFMU/return line - Stage 2 6 puck Sprung hub MIBA clutch - Shortened shifter - Koni Yellows w/eibach prokit - Stillen Fr/Rr swaybars - ceramic intake - DEI Keyless entry alarm - Niche 17" Shoks

Waiting to be installed: Apexi AFC, HKS EVC IV, 450 Turbo injectors, GSX Front brakes (need rotors)

Mitchell on Demand copies available

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks

Originally posted by burntheblobs Holy be-jesus. Go to www.vfaq.com and just start reading all of it. Then in your free time, re-read it. Thats what I do. Right now you are asking us the most common dsm mistake's and when we tell you the answer you go "oh...well how about *insert common misconception here*". Just do some god damn research.

wtf? i never once asked the same question twice that was answered. i just didn't understand the the technical reason for the dump tube and some people jumped in and helped me out. the other stuff was just askin about different things about different products and i just added what i was doing with my car for advice for the hell of it. and i've always searched so FU. and i've already read most of that site but i asked becuase i couldn't find it so FU again you effin effer. :+

No, im not saying youve asked the same question twice, but your asking sooo many common dsm questions.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=731471&postcount=1

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks
i want to go with a greddy EBC becuase i want to be able to set low boost for 1st gear, then hit the remote for high boost when i can get more traction. i think being able to do that is worth the money. i'll probably get the their turbo timer while i'm at it too.

the boost controller isn't powerful enough to do this unless you are externally gated. It will open the wastegate to the turbo, but the turbo won't care, it will spool up anyways. All this will do is increase spoolup time by a few hundred RPM. I went this route and regret it to this day---get an MBC and never look back. Turbosmart makes a really nice one if you must have dual stage.

As for turbo timers, get the APEX'i one, because it ROCKS! Its 1/4 the size of the greddy (you'll thank me later when your dash looks like friggin star wars) and has 3 times the functions. You can get accurate (as accurate as you're going to get at least) 02 readings with it, so you avoid making an 02 voltage gauge, and it gives you batt voltage as well--very handy for stereo people

*EDIT* I know many disagree with me, but to be honest, besides their pretty guages, I have been very un-satisfied with greddy products, and their guauges gave me a headache for a while as well...

their boost controller is a POS...its fragile as hell, stick with a crushed 1g

Originally posted by Vandy420a
their boost controller is a POS...its fragile as hell, stick with a crushed 1g

...and by "boost controller" I mean "blow off valve"...

I'm retarded, what can I say? :D

why did you take off the dump pipe?

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST
why did you take off the dump pipe?

who me? i didn't, i just shortened it.

so it goes PSSSHHHT!!!

On 2nd gens you shorten the plastic dump tube that sticks inside the intake. It blocks the air in stock form, so when you shorten it you get that extra flow.

How did i miss such a classic thread......

does the apexi timer read in kilometers? i ordered the greddy awhile ago and all the features like speedometer, distance timing, blah, blah, blah is all in kilometers.

Originally posted by 420a-Tnthewerks
does the apexi timer read in kilometers? i ordered the greddy awhile ago and all the features like speedometer, distance timing, blah, blah, blah is all in kilometers.

:wary :wary :wary :wary

I'm totally lost as to what you're talking about. The apex timer is exactly that, a timer. I guess the greddy timer gives you fancy stuff like a theoretical 1/4 mile or something. No, the apex doesn't do that, but its alot smaller, looks clean, and gives 2 useful guages that aren't worth buying on their own: batt voltage and 02 voltage.

Its also really handy to use as an auto timer and a poor man's remote starter.

IN the winter, (i'm sure you can do this wiht the greddy as well, but) I set my timer to 10 min and start the car, then re-arm the alarm and go back inside while it warms up.

yeah, the greddy gives you a digital read out of true vehicle speed(but it's in km/h) and you can set a certain speed or distance you want it to time(but it's in km/h)

i can still probably use those features though. i'm figureing .4 km = roughly 1/4 mile


oh well, i think i'm still going to use it, i don't need those features.

I like my Blitz dual tt. It has boost with a peak hold feature. It reads in kg/cm2(14.22:1), but it's electronic and more accurate than my autometer boost guage. The peak hold feature is cool cause I can see spikes/creep much easier w/out having to stare at my other guage.