ok, i got done installing my head that ert built, and after having to jump the car a few times, it was running good, idling kinda funny, but im sure that was because of the S2 cams, so i took it for a drive around my house, and it was driving fine, still idling weird but nothing worrying me, so i decided to open her up a bit, got her to about 4k rpms, and stopped the car, and the lights started to dim, rpms dropped real low, and it was strugging to stay alive, and it died, so i coasted it back to my working spot, tried jumping it, but all that was happening was the starter was spinning, so i look at the timing, and the exhaust line is facing middle, while the intake is facing upwards, and the belt is loose, and i can take it off, but the guy who helped me said if i bent valves, i would have heard a sound like pap pap pap, and it would have been loud, but i heard nothing like that, it just died and wont crank, any ideas, please, i need my car back

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
ok, i got done installing my head that ert built, and after having to jump the car a few times, it was running good, idling kinda funny, but im sure that was because of the S2 cams, so i took it for a drive around my house, and it was driving fine, still idling weird but nothing worrying me, so i decided to open her up a bit, got her to about 4k rpms, and stopped the car, and the lights started to dim, rpms dropped real low, and it was strugging to stay alive, and it died, so i coasted it back to my working spot, tried jumping it, but all that was happening was the starter was spinning, so i look at the timing, and the exhaust line is facing middle, while the intake is facing upwards, and the belt is loose, and i can take it off, but the guy who helped me said if i bent valves, i would have heard a sound like pap pap pap, and it would have been loud, but i heard nothing like that, it just died and wont crank, any ideas, please, i need my car back

when i bent my valves, i didnt hear anything.

rip the head off and look, its the only way ur gonna find out but i bet you did...

i hope not, i just spent 1500 getting the thing built, i cant afford to take it apart again, and have to pay to get new valves installed

before you go ripping apart the engine i would check the timming belt tensioner and try to maybe re align the timming marks. Then do a compression test.

i was gonna try that tomorrow, take it apart, just the motor mount and the belts and timing cover, see what went wrong, try realigning it, and try starting it up, see whats happens

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
so i look at the timing, and the exhaust line is facing middle, while the intake is facing upwards, and the belt is loose, and i can take it off,

Hope this helps...

http://www.howellautomotive.com/Howell/Store/catalog/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=142_38_83&products_id=1230

Originally posted by djtrickee

Originally posted by bloodyangel1 so i look at the timing, and the exhaust line is facing middle, while the intake is facing upwards, and the belt is loose, and i can take it off,

Hope this helps... http://www.howellautomotive.com/Howell/Store/catalog/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=142_38_83&products_id=1230

yup thats for sure...

first, re-align the belt and rotate the crankshaft 2 times, if it rotates, you should be okay, but i HIGHLY doubt it!

thanx for that link, and also, do u think they will sell the valves seperate, like if i only need like 4 or w/e, and how much does a valve job cost, and is it possible with the head on the car?

The head needs to come off of the car to do the valves.

If compression test doesn't pass, Pull the head off while engine is in the car.

Use the yellowpages to find a machine shop near you.

Replace the valves that are bent.

If you need new stock valves, and you want them cheap... go here:

http://www.store.partsdinosaur.com/page29.html

notice:
intake valve: 7.95
exhaust valve: 9.66

This guy is awesome at getting shit shipped out fast.

I believe advance auto has a valve spring compressor to take the valves out(saves you money). the more you do, the less a machne shop should charge you.

Just make sure you don't loose any of the keepers when you compress the valve (there are two keepers on each valve) and it makes sense to use a magnet to catch them when the spring is compressed.

Very Important: Inspect all cylinders and head for metal depris and clean regardless.

well the valves i got are stainless steel, and ert did a 3 angle job on them, and i dont know if they will do valves seperately or a complete set, because i might not need all of them, im doin a compression test today, ill post the results

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
well the valves i got are stainless steel, and ert did a 3 angle job on them, and i dont know if they will do valves seperately or a complete set, because i might not need all of them, im doin a compression test today, ill post the results

yes they will do valves seperately.

does anyone know the sizes on the bolts for the tensioner because i cant find the top one, its bigger than the bottom one, and all the bolts i have wont fit through the hole on the tensioner. also, the bottom hole is stripped now, i guess because the tensioner was forced down and moved the bolt, and the bolt i have for it just turns and turns, is it possible to fix that?

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
does anyone know the sizes on the bolts for the tensioner because i cant find the top one, its bigger than the bottom one, and all the bolts i have wont fit through the hole on the tensioner. also, the bottom hole is stripped now, i guess because the tensioner was forced down and moved the bolt, and the bolt i have for it just turns and turns, is it possible to fix that?

ya, re-tap the hole!

wow

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST

Originally posted by bloodyangel1 does anyone know the sizes on the bolts for the tensioner because i cant find the top one, its bigger than the bottom one, and all the bolts i have wont fit through the hole on the tensioner. also, the bottom hole is stripped now, i guess because the tensioner was forced down and moved the bolt, and the bolt i have for it just turns and turns, is it possible to fix that?

ya, re-tap the hole! wow

Careful there Hingey... It wasn't too long ago that you were asking all these same questions... heh.

well i kind of figured i could retap the hole, but i never done that before, and dont know what size tap i would need, or if i will need a bigger tap than the size hole, or whatever else, and i still need to know the bolt sizes if anyone knows them

It's not hard to retap a hole. Just bring the bolt in that's spinning to a good hardware shop. Ask for the next size up. (Just run through the bolt/nut isle and figure out what size) You can get just about any size tap. You'll also want a corresponding drill bit. It should be a smaller size that the tap but about the same size as the current hole. (ask the salesperson for help) Sometimes, taps have the required drill bit size printed on it.

To tap, you drill out the hole to clean it up, making sure it's STRAIGHT! Then you start working the tap in. It's got a tapered edge on it to help you start getting it going. Work it in and out, a couple threads at a time taking it out completely many times to clean the metal shavings off. Also, get some cutting oil to help keep things lubricated.

It's not hard man, you can do it!


Brian

Could it be... karma?

I'm crossing my fingers for you, son. Really. Redo the timing belt, make sure things spin good, and then do a compression test. If your numbers are way off, I'm thinking you could have the car towed to your shop of choice for a leak down test to confirm valve condition. :shrug Even so, if you munched the valves, you're out some decent change. :(

im going to try and crank the car with the key today, leaving the plug wires out to see if it will even crank, i also tried turning it over by hand, and it does seem like im gettin compression still, so maybe ill get lucky and god will give me another chance at it, if not, i dont know what im gonna do :shrug

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
im going to try and crank the car with the key today, leaving the plug wires out to see if it will even crank, i also tried turning it over by hand, and it does seem like im gettin compression still, so maybe ill get lucky and god will give me another chance at it, if not, i dont know what im gonna do:shrug

just try rotating the crank twice. if it rotates, your motor is locked up. you have to turn it twice anyway by hand to check yoru timing marks.

well i did rotate it and the lines matched up still, and it seemed like i got compression, thats why im going to try and crank it with the key to see if it will crank, or if the starter will just spin

E-mail me or sales when you get a look at it and we'll see what we can do to help, or get you replacement parts for damage.

michael@exileracing.com
sales@exileracing.com

Exile Racing Technologies
http://www.exileracing.com
Go that way, really fast, if something gets in your way... turn.

thanks mike, ill be sure to get back to you guys once i found out anything. and for an update, i tried cranking the car with the key, and it is cranking over, but it did seem a little lumpy? like it would jump or something, i dunno how to explain it. but im thinking that was because i was holding the tensioner in place myself, so im going to buy a heli coil kit to repair the stripped tensioner hole, and will try starting her once its done, and will reply with any updates.

another way to check if you bent valves is to pull the cams and if a valve is bent it will be considerably lower than the rest. Also use a compression tester fitting to put compressed air in the Cly with all the valves closed to see if it rushes right out.

www.cnnmotorsports.com

well i rented a compression tester, and will try that later tonight or tomorrow, and if i cant get any results, i will take the valve cover off, and see what it looks like under there

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
but im thinking that was because i was holding the tensioner in place myself

Wow. Just .. wow.

-lol- well i was holding it with a torque wrench because i have to rethread the holes the tensioner is held in place with, so it was the only way to do it

well i did a compression test, and the results r 200 190 0 0 so 3 and 4 r shot, so im going to take off the head and see how many valves r bad. it did start tho, backfiring like a mo'fo tho

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
and the results r 200 190 0 0 so 3 and 4 r shot, so im going to take off the head and see how many valves r bad.

My guess is 8 :P

Originally posted by DarkOne

Originally posted by bloodyangel1 but im thinking that was because i was holding the tensioner in place myself

Wow. Just .. wow.

That's what I was thinking. OMG. That takes balls. :twitch

yes it does, and the fact that i ACTUALLY had the bolts i needed for the tensioner is what really sucks, i didnt realize that the top bolt on the tensioner threads in deeper, i thought the hole was just stripped like the bottom one, but no. mike said that i probably only bent the intake ones, so im gonna take the head off tonight hopefully and see what damage is done

well i got the head off, and so far things look good, the bottom of the valves all look good, pistons look good too, exhaust valves look good, and once i get the intake off, ill see the intake valves, but what exactly will the valves look like if they r bad? and how do i attach pics, ill take some and post them on here

i have a question, well i asked my buddy at work, and he said that when i do a compression test, even the cylinders that have no compression will still crank, and thats the thing that stumps me, when i put the gauge in #1 and #2 it would crank, but when i put it in #3 and #4, the starter would just spin, so i tried #1 and #2 again, and it cranked, why would that happen, and all the valves look good, i turned the cams over by hand and all the valves open up and looks like they seat good too, this dont make much sense

I love these "my buddy says.." posts. Everyone's buddies are idiots, apparently.

You have bent valves. The reason the starter "just spins" is because when you've got the compression tester in a cylinder with no compression with all four plugs out, the motor has no compression on any cylinder BECAUSE THE PLUGS ARE OUT AND THE VALVES AREN'T SEALING.

Doesn't matter if they "look" okay. They're not. Trust me.

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
once i get the intake off, ill see the intake valves, but what exactly will the valves look like if they r bad?

ouch, your lost.

if you have the head off, you can see the intake valves too dude. did you think all those valves under the head were all exhaust valves, or the intake valves are under the intake manifold?

you need to get a valve spring compressor, take the springs out and pull each valve out. look at the valve and see if its bent cause obvioulsy you have some that are fucked since you have no compression on those two cylinders. another way to tell if they are truly bent is to get an electric drill, put the valve in it, tighten it down, and press the drill button... the valve will start turning obviously and if its straight, you will know. if its bent, you will know too.

take the valves out and then tell us how you do.

you probably fucked up your pistons too.

no im not stupid, i know there r 8 intake and 8 exhaust, what i meant was, i could see the valves thru the ports once i get the intake off, becuz it was still on when i took the head off. all the valves look good, and pistons look good too, no scatches or anything on them, i just didnt understand what i said in my last post, it made no sense to me

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
no im not stupid, i know there r 8 intake and 8 exhaust, what i meant was, i could see the valves thru the ports once i get the intake off, becuz it was still on when i took the head off. all the valves look good, and pistons look good too, no scatches or anything on them, i just didnt understand what i said in my last post, it made no sense to me

take the valves out

then what?

well since im going to take the valves out, is there a certain valve spring compressor im gonna need? and is there a write-up somewhere that tells me how to do a valve job since i plan on putting the new ones back in myself

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
well since im going to take the valves out, is there a certain valve spring compressor im gonna need? and is there a write-up somewhere that tells me how to do a valve job since i plan on putting the new ones back in myself

yes, you need a certain valve spring compressor, you can rent one locally probably.

its easy, clean up the bottom of the head, slide your valve in, push your valve seal down over top the valve, slide your valve spring and retainer on, compress the spring and slide the 2 keepers on (put some grease on the keepers before you put them back on too), release the compressor, and walah, you have 15 more to do!

well at closer examination, it looks like i bent 4 of my exhaust valves, they seem to sit up a bit from the bottom, i also tried one test, were i turned the lights off, and shined a flashlights at the valves to see if any light comes through, and it does shine in the 4 bad exhaust valves, but every other one it stays dark inside, so im assuming its just 4 bent exhaust, i will also try a leak down test to make sure its just those 4, and will also try and find a machine shop to get a pressure test done, as mike has recommended me doing it

Something to remember in the future, hinde site is always 20/20, gotta love it.

Before you pull the head, remove the cams. Now take the compression tester fitting. If you look at it, the end that the gauge couples to, looks just like a milton air hose fitting. Thats because it is. Take an airhose and hook it to the tester adapter. The engine may rotate the piston to BDC so dont have a wrench on the crank! Whichever valve is leaking, you will hear. If the exhaust valves are leaking, you will hear the air escaping out the exhaust. If the intake valves are leaking, you will hear it out the intake. This is a leakdown test.

Now if you hear Air comming out of the crankcase, then you are dealing with air escaping past the rings. In some cases this might be normal, like a motor that has not been broken in yet, or a 60's motor that is built to 60's specs and is cold...lol
You should do this before you pull the head, if you do it after the head is back on, you will might only catch a couple valves bent AFTER the motor is back together. You should do it after assembly anyhow but prior will give you more info to base your repairs on.

well actually the head has been off the car for like 3 days now, i tried a leak down test? by turning the head upside down, and pouring liquid ontop of the valves to see if it came through into the port, and the last 4 exhaust valves leaked, but every other valve is good, so i will replace them ones

Originally posted by bloodyangel1
well actually the head has been off the car for like 3 days now, i tried a leak down test? by turning the head upside down, and pouring liquid ontop of the valves to see if it came through into the port, and the last 4 exhaust valves leaked, but every other valve is good, so i will replace them ones

replace them all with stainless valves!

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST

replace them all with stainless valves!

why should i replace all the valves if only 4 are bad, thats a waste of money, and besides, i had compression in the other 2 cylinders, so im not even going to worry about them 2. and i know what i did isnt exactly a leakdown test, but it gave me the results i was looking for, it showed me which ones are bad, and which ones are good, but i still plan on getting a pressure test done anyways

Originally posted by bloodyangel1

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST

replace them all with stainless valves!

why should i replace all the valves if only 4 are bad, thats a waste of money, and besides, i had compression in the other 2 cylinders, so im not even going to worry about them 2. and i know what i did isnt exactly a leakdown test, but it gave me the results i was looking for, it showed me which ones are bad, and which ones are good, but i still plan on getting a pressure test done anyways

usually when something breaks on your car, you replace it with better parts. i was just suggesting you replace your valves with better stuff other than factory garbage

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST

Originally posted by bloodyangel1

Originally posted by eclipse982nrRST

replace them all with stainless valves!

why should i replace all the valves if only 4 are bad, thats a waste of money, and besides, i had compression in the other 2 cylinders, so im not even going to worry about them 2. and i know what i did isnt exactly a leakdown test, but it gave me the results i was looking for, it showed me which ones are bad, and which ones are good, but i still plan on getting a pressure test done anyways

usually when something breaks on your car, you replace it with better parts. i was just suggesting you replace your valves with better stuff other than factory garbage

oh, im sorry, i misunderstood you, well since ERT did my head, they were SS valves with the 3 angle job on them, and i dont plan on settling for anything but them, not the factory garbage as you mentioned

Take the head to a machine shop like you said. What you are talking about is not a leakdown test.