Well it started like this... I have a '95 RS and I wanted to build a "race" motor for my car so I got a "spare" 98 Avenger 2.0L motor.... Not thinking twice about it I ordered all bearing packages for a '95 motor....

Well So my engine builder calls me today and says that the bottom main bearing doesn't fit!!!! I say WTF... and I start to worry that maybe he isn't such a good engine builder as I have been told..

Well he was correct! My chrysler dealer confirmed that there was a change between 96 and 97!!!! So... anyone else know about this?? This is pretty major news to me, as it may mean that the 98 block is BETTER or WORSE??? So which is it????

Anyone know of any other major engine design changes?

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

if anybody knows i would like to know also...the engine on my 97 rs has been replaced and i would like to know now if they maybe put a different one in it!!!!!!! damn.

thanks rob
louisville, ky
97 rs
enki17x7
magnacore
groundcontrol
hahnstage1
greddycatback
struttowerbar
nittosrear
khumosfront
shortshift
lightnedflywheel
knfiltercharge coldair/intake
blitzturbotimer
autometer a/f ratio
autometer boost guage

http://members.home.net/xtatdsm



I have had both engines in my car, the car came with 96 motor, I blew that then had it replaced with a 98 motor.

as far as which one is better, I would think 97 and up since if they decided to change the design, logically they should have changed it to a better design. the guy who put the 98 motor into my car also told me that some sensors needed to be rewired.


Adel

I would think a better design. But didn't know there was a change so....

But the sensor rewires were, I would bet, due to OBDII.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga
Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Actually Michael, the 96 models are OBDII equipped. 95's are not. Thats why the 95' model doesnt need a fuel cut defencer, and the 96'-99' does.

Dooooooohhhh!!! My bad.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga
Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Well.... As much as I'd love to think that the 97-up Block is better, sometimes these dumb-ass engineers do changes for other reasons, not just to improve something.

Although in this case, I am pretty sure that a change in crank design/block would not have been due to emissions.. So that may be a good thing...

Anyone else know for cryin out loud????

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

I sat in a friend's 95 ESi yesterday while my car was in pieces due to turbo install, and the first thing I noticed was that the shifter was a LOT different. It was at a completely different angle than mine...it basically felt like a whole new transmission. Maybe part of the difference had to do with the tranny?


-Jeff
Now BOOSTED! HRC Super 16G

http://gs.dsmpower.com

yeah wtf did they have to change the perfectly good, rock-solid 1g turbo motor in 95 to some crankwalking POS.
its such a shame, the 2g turbo's wouldn't only be the best looking sport compacts, but also the cheapest to make fast and even fast stock while maintaining pretty good reliability/durability


javi d
vroom n' boom
bone-stock dsm performance :)

Umm the 2G Turbo (i.e 4G63) has nothing to do with the engine design change on the 420A...

Usually engineers make design changes due to several reasons..to pass stricter emissions, to make more efficient engines, cheaper to produce engines etc...

In fact the reason Mitsu switched from Garett to Mitsu turbos was due to the really expensive price of the Garrett turbos. It was much cheaper for Mitsu to use their own stuff, apart from the fact that the Mitsu turbo spools up much faster.

Unfortunately also some details can not be predicted. If Engineers had to wait for 10 years of tests to release an engine... then you understand.

As for the "smoothness" of transmissions, honestly, about %90 is due to shifter designs. However, I also believe that my '95 Shifter and my friends '98 shifter look the same...

To make your shifter more accurate and "sporty" you might want to consider the symborski shifter kit and you might want to "shorten" your shifter.

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

Actually...From what I understand, the Talon's come with a different trany, which is why your 99 GS is differend from your friends 95 ESi Jeff.

But Sorry, RS_Guy...I didn't know they were THAT different???


I GOT 3rd AT MY FIRST SHOW!!!:-)

Ball Bearing Star Stage II
"Power is nothing without control"

http://members.home.net/xtatdsm



>> In fact the reason Mitsu switched from Garett to Mitsu turbos was due to the really expensive price of the Garrett turbos. It was much cheaper for Mitsu to use their own stuff, apart from the fact that the Mitsu turbo spools up much faster.<<

actually I think you got them mixed up. 2G 4G63s come with T25 (Garett turbo) and 1G come with either 14B or 13G (13G for ATs), so Mitsu switched from mitsu turbos to Garett. plus Mitsu turbos spooling much faster is not always true. T3/T4 happens to spool up faster than 20Gs, yet it almost puts out the same amount of power.


Adel

>actually I think you got them
>mixed up. 2G 4G63s come
>with T25 (Garett turbo) and
>1G come with either 14B
>or 13G (13G for ATs),
>so Mitsu switched from mitsu
>turbos to Garett.

Oops, you are correct... I got it all mixed up..

Then in that case Mitsu switched to the Garett in 95-up because of it faster spooling time.

BTW I was simply comparing the T25 to the 14B in terms of spoolup time, not any other models of Mitsu or Garett Turbos...

So what is a TD05 ? Isn't that a Mitsu Turbo? Is that the same as the 14B? I know that some older Chrysler Turbo motors cane with TD04 turbos (2.2L or 2.5L)

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

I have the Energy Suspension shifter bushings in mine and I like the difference, makes the shifter more "Accuarate" for the $15 or whatever I paid, I recommend it, worth the few bucks. I suggest ording a set from somebody next time you order something, You won't even notice the extra $10 bucks.

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga
Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

99GSBBTurbo, I know that I may be blowing this out of proportion, but in my opinion, changing a crank/block design seems like a rather major change.. I mean there must have been a reason right?

I just wish that someone knew something about this..

As for the different trannies on the Talons, what exactly do you mean?
Do you mean that Talons were non-modular and Eclipses were modular for instance? (just an example..)

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

I was told by this guy who had a talon that the reason why he got the Talon was that the trany and the shifter were better then the Mitsubishi. I've never driven a Talon, so I can't give you my opinion. That's just what the guy told me. I'm guessing that Eagle used their own trany instead of the Mitsubishi trany? I don't know??

And I agree with you, there had to be a reason for Mitsu to change the crank/block design, but just because they changed it, doesn't mean that it's better for us. It might be better for them, cost wise, like it was probably cheaper for them to use a thiner block or heavier block?? I'm not sure. But if I do find out, I'll let you all know.



I GOT 3rd AT MY FIRST SHOW!!!:-)

Ball Bearing Star Stage II
"Power is nothing without control"

LAST EDITED ON 23-Apr-01 AT 09:46 PM (PST)

from what i have been told and read...mistu or crysler decided to change a few things because of issues on 95-96 420a's. one major concern was the timing belt issue. on 95-96 there was a prob with the timing belt. my aunt has a 95 talon and her engine looks the same but from what i was told mine has more power because of the redesign. also it has more reliability. as far as the diff in tranny from a talon and mistu i would really like to know if my tranny is better than a eclipse tranny ??? SKRILLA ???


Talon
97'Talon Esi
Smokin' Honduh's All Day Long!

...because I ONLY swapped out engines. I actually used my Talon Tranny on my '95 Spare Eclipse engine(if that makes any sense) though I'm hesistant to believe that the trannies are completely different, I have small specs on both trannies that indicate they're of the same gearing. That would *usually* lead me to believe that the trannies are most likely the same but with minor modifications. Again I don't know because I'm using a '97 Talon tranny on a '95 Eclipse motor. I seriously feel that my '97 Talon Motor was less raucous than my current '95 motor. BTW it was a complete engine swap with the tranny remaining.

Skrilla
'97 Base Talon NA
"Technology: The Only Replacement for Displacement"
"Peace and Turbo Grease"

I do not buy the tranny is any diff. It is the same tranny as a Neon R/T and same gears afaik. The service manual does not differentiate from what I ahve seen. That would be the first place to look though.

MuRiX
97 Eclipse GS HRC Stage II
And a whole lot of other mods...
89 Accord LSi - yes it's mine :(
http://murix.home.icq.com/index.html

let me clarify...i dont mean like 20 horses or anything. my aunts is an auto 95 talon with only intake mod...so far just like mine. she has 5,000 more miles than i do but takes great care of it. every 3k she canges oil if not before like at 2500. she loves it but i can smoke her ??? she has 60,000 miles most highway just like mine. anyway just sayin i hope at least that the changes were to correct defects in design to improve power.

Talon
97'Talon Esi
Smokin' Honduh's All Day Long!

If she's auto and you are manual, that would explain why you'd smoke her.

The trannies should be the same in the Eclipses and Talons, since 2GNTs use Chrysler's 420a engine...


___________________________
l e o n
1995 Eagle Talon ESi-T
Star Stage 2
Boost is GOOOOOOOD!

yep, as far as i'm concerned they changed the 4g63 to save fuel. i ain't really mad at the engineers, everyone makes mistakes, but mitsubishi should acknowledge it. Sports car owners are the most loyal to brands, and all the people who invested big bucks into 2g turbos were #$&%ed big time, needless to say, they are not likely to ever consider looking at a car by mitsu.

i can't say anything cause i don't know, but why would they have different trannies for eclipses and talons? i mean, it'd be cheaper to just have one tranny that to build different ones. well different little tidbits anyway.

javi d
vroom n' boom
bone-stock dsm performance :)

IF there is a difference in the trannys between Talons & Eclipses, then it's probably more of an Aesthetic thing.. i.e. the shifter design may be *slightly* different.

For instance take the Chrysler 300M and the Dodge Intrepid.
Same car (different looks) BUT the "feel" of the 300M was made to have a "German" feel i.e. heavier steering response, stiffer suspension, whereas the Dodge Intrepid was made to "Domestic Market Specs" i.e. to suit more americans' tastes.

So if there is a difference between the Talon and the Eclipse's shifter then its only made for a different "feel". But I still think that they are the same.

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

Oh and the '98 420A that I am talking about, came off an Automatic Dodge Avenger if that makes a difference. The dealer said that Auto/Manual made no difference though, but he confirmed a change in 96-97 of the crank main bearings design.

Here's the funny thing, under the hood, my car says DSM, under the Avenger's hood which I took the engine from, it said "Mitsubishi"!!!!!!

BTW During my engine mix-and-match session, I also helped put a '97 engine back into the Avenger and I noticed that there was a fule rail design change between 97 & 98!!!!

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

What's the difference? Does it look like one flows better?

"To strive to seek to find... and not to yield."
Michael J. Kulaga e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com
aol IM: MJKulga Website: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

Injen CAI w/ K&N Breather filters, 55mm TB, FU/RU/RL STBs, Red silicone hose kit, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Bosch Rapidfire Plugs

And in my Room: Rear disc brake conversion kit, SS Brake Lines, GS-T Muffler, Intake manifold 4 porting, Energy Suspension Motor Mount Inserts. RRE FL Tie Bar, TSW Blade 17x7.5 (need tires)