Well, as some of you know, i had decided to redo my headgasket since it was starting to leak. Has the had resurfaced, valve grind, and new stem seals installed. Put the head back on, and got stuck trying to get my timing set right. Best I could do was around half tooth off on the cam gears. I'm assuming there was too much material taken off the head and made the timing off just slightly..Car ran decent, but idle was rough..redid the timing belt again, this time with the exhaust advanced, and intake retarded half tooth(it was either that or vise versa). Car idled much better, not perfect, but much better. But before, i noticed that cylinder 4 was not fired right. It had fuel, spark, and compression, but my EGT was on that cylinder, and it was at like 400 degrees..pulled the wire on taht cylinder, and didnt change the running of the motor..then redid the timing one more time,and it ran good for the most part, had 18.5 hg's of vac, but still didnt seem right. Took the car out on the highway a bit, boosted it, seemed ok. Then on the way back, turning onto my street, the motor started running like crap, and then all of a sudden made this clangging sound, and got severe within a few seconds, and then nothing..motor dead. I knew what happened.

I then pulled the head AGAIN, and found this disturbing evidence of what happened. From what i can tell, none of the 3 cylinder except #4 had piston hitting any valves. It looks like somehow, my 2 exhaust valves came loose, and smacked the piston. How they came loose i dont know, but the machine shop that did the head worked on the exhaust side..the head is fucked, and that cylinder has small gouges in it,and obviously, the piston top is completely FUCKED. Well, there goes my car being at the shootout this year..And to top it all off, my dad calls me today, and told me my Grandmother died this afternoon..yes, life sucks for XtremeRS today :( I now have to figure out what i'm exactly going to do. A lot of hard work and money went down the drain today..Here is the damage..

sorry to see and hear... well I guess now u get to do all yoru upgrades

although it still blows

Dave

replace the 2 valves get a new stock piston and get a bigger gasket IMO

I got a stock piston u can have

Originally posted by brokenrodguy
replace the 2 valves get a new stock piston and get a bigger gasket IMO I got a stock piston u can have

Well that is a JE forged 8.8:1 piston, and .020 oversize. No stock piston will fix that. Cylinder wall is gouged just a bit, but it will have to be bored over to fix that. Head is fucked...a ported/polished head that is.

so whats the machine shop gonna do?
or rather, what are you gonna do to the machine shop?

:-o

Originally posted by Malenko
so whats the machine shop gonna do? or rather, what are you gonna do to the machine shop?

I say " Take Therrr Jaabbsss "

if you hafta get 4 new bigger bore pistons, can I have the 3 good ones?

Yeah my best guess is that the machine shop did not put in the valve keepers properly...and yeah, they will get a personal visit tomorrow..

Anyone know if i can buy like 1 JE .040 piston?

Originally posted by XtremeRS
Anyone know if i can buy like 1 JE .040 piston?

When I tried to order 4 they told me the minimum for a special order is 8. :shrug

whoa matt those pictures are pretty scary looking. i cant imagine the sound that made... it looks like the valves just shattered!

if you need that spare block let me know... actually just let me know if there is anything i can do...

:-o x2

Well after closer inspection of the cylinder wall, I *may* be able to get away with just honing out the wall for some new rings, and a new 8:8:1 .020 piston. The hone may not take out all the tiny gouges, but it will work. discounttyr420a(Sean), lives in town, and has a spare head for me..owed me on helping with a trans swap, so i'll have that..it has some bent valves in it though, but thats no big deal. If i can pull this off, with some miracle, i can get this car to the shootout..

fawk dude, that sucks. if my tranny wasen't screwed in my avenger i'd let you borrow the head off the talon so you could go to the s.o. :/

Damn bro, that really sucks. It's gotta be a curse or something about not being destined to make it to the shootout. Good luck and I hope you can pull something together to make it still!


*rebuild in process...too much spent and still not fast enough*
GST Muffler
injen short ram intake
magnecore 8.5mm wires
EGR removal/blockoff
front/rear strut tower bars
GSX dual piston calipers

i'd cry if i seen that in my engine

damn, matt, are you still going to hitch a ride?

yes, if he cant get it together he will be getting a ride, like it or not haha.

Damn Matt!! That sucks big time. You have to make the machine shop pay for this!

Obviously, this wasn't a timing belt related issue or there would be more damage to just the #4 piston. (I know I'm stating the obvious here)

:-(

Matt, I am cryin' for ya on both counts. I have a 93 that a guy I know owns with a similar prob. He got taken from the start though. As others have offered, I'm here if ya need some help (if I can do it I will!)
Carl

Thanks for some of the words guys, i appreciate it! I took the head into the machine shop today and showed them what happened. The guy didn't say a whole lot really, but didnt say something like" oh, its not our fault" or something like that. I think he knows they messed up somewhere..and so do I. I want to give a HUGE thanks to discounttyre420a(Sean), as he had a spare head sitting around not being used. We traded straight up for what he owed me, and so now, i have a good, complete head to work with(less all bent intake valves). I took this new head to the machine shop today, and at this point, we have agreed for them to cover everything with the new head, and getting that all set up. I didn't have time to get into just yet about a new piston, but i called up JE and ordered a new .020 over 8.8:1 piston and ring set, and shipping it 3rd day. I told the shop i want the head by this Friday. If everthing goes right, i'll have er back together this weekend. The #4 cylinder really should get a bore/hone job, but its salvagable if i just re-hone/break the glaze on it for new rings. Prob won't have like new compression in that cylinder, but it should work fine for the rest of this season. I may do a rebuild on it with a new block this winter.

For those of you who know me personally, you know that i'm a persistant, stubborn mutherfucker...you can't keep me down...This car is going to the shootout :evilgrin

if they are bent intake valves i think you have all of my old ones :o should work out nicely hehe.

Dayaaamm Matt... after talking on the phone the other day, I didn't expect to see that... That definately sucks a fat one. It's good to hear that you've got the bases covered for getting it back together though. Best of luck getting it done in time for the SO.

hey matt danhof! holy cow long time man.

anyway, i can lend you a hand this weekend during the day matt.

2gnt is so awesome haha. everyone around chips in what they can and youll be right back on the road matt (duncan)! consider it a 2gnt miracle.

Wow Matt, and I thought I've been having problems not being able to get my car on the road. This certainly puts things in perspective for me ... my problems are really not that big afterall. Anyway, about your timing ... I spoke to a machanic from Mitsu about that personally when I timed my car b/c I couldn't get it perfect either. He said as long as you have it within 5 degrees (which in my mind is about a tooth and half) it should idle fine. So I took his word on it and the few times I've had the car idling it idled just fine. Anyone else have a similar experience with the timing?

Originally posted by techboy
Wow Matt, and I thought I've been having problems not being able to get my car on the road. This certainly puts things in perspective for me ... my problems are really not that big afterall. Anyway, about your timing ... I spoke to a machanic from Mitsu about that personally when I timed my car b/c I couldn't get it perfect either. He said as long as you have it within 5 degrees (which in my mind is about a tooth and half) it should idle fine. So I took his word on it and the few times I've had the car idling it idled just fine. Anyone else have a similar experience with the timing?

Well, my timing was off around half tooth on each cam gear, when the crank was at TDC. Not exactly sure how many degrees that equals, but it can't be more than 4 cam degrees. People with adjustable cam gears go 4 degrees all the time, without any issue. But, my problem here was NOT caused by timing issues. If that were the case, then i would have more bent valves, or at least signs of valves hitting pistons..but there is absolutetly no signs of that. I knew something just wasnt right, because in the back of my head, i knew that the timing only being off that little, should not make the motor idle like that..If anyone has some adjustable cam gears they can look at, see how much degrees one full tooth is..should be able to eyeball it on the cam gear. Maybe look at it from middle of the tooth to the next middle of the tooth.

I talked with matt95tgs, and he had a good theory. He has taken apart and assembled our valvetrain before, and he says its almost impossible to not loose any valve keepers. I'm just wondering if the shop lost 4 of them, and put in keepers from a 4g63 or other motor that had similar keepers..I have both heads and parts still at the shop,but i may go and get those keepers from the "incinerated" valve parts..

MAn I'm sorry to hear about your troubles with your engine. Sounds like you've got all the bases covered on that though. No one has said it yet, but I'd like to give my condolences about your grandmother. Engines can be replaced. I hope you and your family are all doing ok.

Damn that sucks -- you've gotta make it to the shootout! You always get the job done, I know you'll fix her up real nice - see you AND your car at the SO :)

I bet you could sleeve that cylinder if your worried about it. Although it probably won't need anything, I doubt it would make much of a difference. Just make sure there are no sharp edges. I've built engines with pitting in the cylinders from rust and still had a little left after honing but it didn't make a difference. Just put it together and drive it like you stole it. Good luck on it and the SO. I'd love to go to the SO but with this new job of mine I wouldn't be able to. Plus I don't know if my car would make it or not lol.

Originally posted by Uberingram
I will burn you for not searching...then the stabbing.

I got the sonic if you got the boom.

Ok, Matt, we're pretty much saying the same thing then. I wasn't sure if you were wondering whether or not your problem resulted b/c the timing .... which certainly does not seem to be the case. Godspeed to you getting a back together. I'm shooting to have mine running by Friday night so I can take it to my show on Sunday. :shrug

Yeah, there is a decent vertical stratch on the back face of the wall, but its not too bad..and just a few small nick/gouges on the wall..I am def going to put a ball hone through it for a new crosshatch for the new piston/rings, but i may just run a bar hone through the cylinder just a few times, just to be sure there are no high spots at the gouges. The cylinder prob wont seal perfect, but it should work pretty darn good anyway.

So far, the machine shop is completely rebuilding my doner head, with all new valves and oil stem seals, and surfaceing it, at no cost to me. I'll prob end up sending them the bill for the new piston later on after i get the head back :evilgrin

Should have the head done by Friday, new piston/rings should be here wed, and reassembly this weekend. Hopefully all goes well. No wait, fuck that, it WILL go well :)

Matt, sorry to hear about your grandmother. Keep your head up and best wishes to you and your family.

Pretty nasty pics of the motor. Hopefully you can get that thing done before the S.O. I hope to see everyone there.

Yikes! :eek

I'm nervous as it is driving my car to the SO and you had to go and show those pics? :P

Good luck Matt, it sounds like you've got you bases covered...but if you need any help...like a good shop light holder...LOL just get a hold of me. :thumbsup

And my condolences go out to you and your family. Losing a loved one is never good times.

Damn dude. I feel your pain! Your lucky, the place that ported my head, didnt no what they were doing, and had about 4 nice cracks in it. I was pissed, showed them and they gave me a big "fuck you" :dark...so i ended up having to pay for everything...again :squint ...Im glad to hear they actually owned when they fucked up…glad to hear everything is in order…Good luck man :thumbsup
---------------------------------------
http://forums.kaptainmyke.com/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=32830
"Oh yea, well...My manifold does cool twisty things"

That blows dood.

Actually the minimum order from JE is 5.

Call up AJCustoms.com (yes they REALLY look like a ricer shop) and order a set of 5. You should have no problem selling the remaining 4 as a set to someone else. They gave me a good deal, and I had a fairly complicated order that they got right, and got to me on time.

More info:
http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=13137&mesg_id=13137&listing_type=search

Originally posted by thedawg
That blows dood. Actually the minimum order from JE is 5. Call up AJCustoms.com (yes they REALLY look like a ricer shop) and order a set of 5. You should have no problem selling the remaining 4 as a set to someone else. They gave me a good deal, and I had a fairly complicated order that they got right, and got to me on time. More info: http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=12&topic_id=13137&mesg_id=13137&listing_type=search

Well I called up JE, they said they can sell me ONE 8.8:1 .020 over piston and ring set. So I bought one :) They said thats the only premade size/ratio they sell, but I can have a custom oversize set made, and only would need 4 for an order :shrug

Well, I have the new head back from the machine shop, with all new valves, stem seals, and surfaced. I also picked up some PT lifters. Got the new JE piston/rings in today also, so all I need to do now is do some surgury on the cylinder, put the new piston in, and put the head back on. So far, so good :)

Originally posted by XtremeRS
Well, I have the new head back from the machine shop, with all new valves, stem seals, and surfaced. I also picked up some PT lifters. Got the new JE piston/rings in today also, so all I need to do now is do some surgury on the cylinder, put the new piston in, and put the head back on. So far, so good :)

COOL....6 1/2 days Matt...chop chop! :7

Originally posted by micyek

Originally posted by XtremeRS Well, I have the new head back from the machine shop, with all new valves, stem seals, and surfaced. I also picked up some PT lifters. Got the new JE piston/rings in today also, so all I need to do now is do some surgury on the cylinder, put the new piston in, and put the head back on. So far, so good :)

COOL....6 1/2 days Matt...chop chop! :7

Yeah yeah :) I may bring the old head and piston to the shootout for kicks haha...pics just don't do justice

Originally posted by XtremeRS

Originally posted by micyek

Originally posted by XtremeRS Well, I have the new head back from the machine shop, with all new valves, stem seals, and surfaced. I also picked up some PT lifters. Got the new JE piston/rings in today also, so all I need to do now is do some surgury on the cylinder, put the new piston in, and put the head back on. So far, so good :)

COOL....6 1/2 days Matt...chop chop! :7

Yeah yeah :) I may bring the old head and piston to the shootout for kicks haha...pics just don't do justice

awesome. I planned on bringing my rod/piston from cyl 1 that I spun a rod bearing in. I snapped one of the piston skirts clean off.


*rebuild in process...too much spent and still not fast enough*
GST Muffler
injen short ram intake
magnecore 8.5mm wires
EGR removal/blockoff
front/rear strut tower bars
GSX dual piston calipers

Originally posted by XtremeRS

Originally posted by brokenrodguy replace the 2 valves get a new stock piston and get a bigger gasket IMO I got a stock piston u can have

Well that is a JE forged 8.8:1 piston, and .020 oversize. No stock piston will fix that. Cylinder wall is gouged just a bit, but it will have to be bored over to fix that. Head is fucked...a ported/polished head that is.

I can get you just one piston if you need it.. let me know.

And sorry to hear about your loss. My dad called me on Sunday to tell me my only remaining grandparent had died... :( Worst things is I'm int he states, so can't go to the funeral.

Thanks for the kind words guys :) The cylinder is honed, ring gaps set, new piston is installed, and oil pan is back on..so far so good. Head is all ready to go back on, but ran into a snag with the timing belt idler pulley hole..its stripped badly, so now i need to helicoil that(and i'll be damn sure to put gobs of red loctite on that), and then the head will be ready to put on, and bolt everything back up..

It fucking runs. Haven't taken it out yet, but so far so good :cheers

it would have been done hours ago if you guys didn't take so many breaks :P

congrats man, hope to see everything up and runnin in toledo.

my car will sound like, bumbabumbubavrooooooooooooooomrooooooooahhhhhhhhhhhhh, kishhhhhh
www.dsmregistry.com/detail.php?carid=643
VW= The joy of driving
DSM= The frustration of fixing

Originally posted by jesse
it would have been done hours ago if you guys didn't take so many breaks :P

hahahahaha. yea, just a different means to the same end i guess haha. we had to let the head studs settle, i swear. it was fun though, minus the hour trying to buy oil at autozone...

glad you finally got it running matt.