Well I'm planning to order the FTY 2.2L (the $3300 with he forged crank, yum) one question i have is should I go with 8.8:1 or 9.0:1 compression? The car will be turboed and I'm looking at the PTE SC-60 turbo right now.

is there anything i should know about FTY 2.2358?L engine? like is it good for turboing? or would there be problems with going turbo and planning to make lots of power with it? other than normal problems

The standard answer you get will be to go with 8.8:1, and this is a safe method with room for error in tuning.

I wouldn't drop below 9.5:1 You'll need less boost to achieve the same power level, and you should see some more power before boost kicks in. But the higher compression you go the smaller the window becomes for tuning.

I would boost on 10 or 10.5:1, if I were to boost. But the room for error is getting smaller then. So the decision is yours.

Of the two options you listed I'd definately go with the 9:1.



Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
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Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

I was thinking 9:1 because people do it somewhat often and dont have too much problems, just slightly harder to tune than 8.8:1, also with the 2.2L and 9.0 compression i figure I could spool that turbo pretty decently compared to a 2.0 with 8.8:1 compression.

question...

for longevity wouldnt a high comp. lets say the stock 9.5 compression and boosting 8 psi. be better than a low comp. 8.8 boosting 12psi running the same hp. i am assuming the less pressure running through it the less stress ...

probably, but i doubt it would make that much of a difference. ill e sticking to 8.8:1 or 9.0:1 because i plan to (hopefully) run around 18-20 psi on pump gas. but that wont be to summer when i have the fuel system figure out completely, may end up going standalone so I can rev the engine higher than 7300. like oh say 8500-9000 since the engine could handle it, head will too since im getting it built also.

damn dood..... maybe ill have to visit u when u get all that done. haha. btw - what rims do u have? size?



14.5 @ 95mph / 7psi 185hp/180tq :thumbsdown

Originally posted by thegame
damn dood..... maybe ill have to visit u when u get all that done. haha. btw - what rims do u have? size?

hey whats up? yeah when we both get our stuff done we should meet up. they are Tenzo R Passion 5's, 18x7.5. gunmetal with polished lip. of course they are off for the winter. dont want to screw them up and max performance tires are not meant for snow and ice.

9.0:1. Definitely. .2 difference in compression is minimal. We run 9:1 all the time on Mustangs with boost anywhere from 8-15 psi. Don't seem to have issues as long as its a good tune with a safe A/F ratio.

Originally posted by oRACLe063
question... for longevity wouldnt a high comp. lets say the stock 9.5 compression and boosting 8 psi. be better than a low comp. 8.8 boosting 12psi running the same hp. i am assuming the less pressure running through it the less stress ...

The problem with this statement is there is no way the car running 9.5:1 and 8psi would make any where near the same amount of power that the 8.8:1 and 12psi (assuming same engine model and same turbo setup). The low comp motor at 12psi will be making quite a bit more power. Remember that 1 point of compression nets you about ~4% increase in HP. But here you are looking at 4psi of boost pressure to counter act .7 points of compression. The extra boost pressure greatly outwieghs the extra compression.

Also, for longevity I don't think it would matter. The obvious failing points for the motor are catastrophic failure, dentonation over time, and a few other things. If the car was tuned properly there is no reason a car running 20psi wouldn't last as long as the car if it was running 5psi (assuming the car had the proper mods to support the 20psi). Also, remember the driving style also has a lot to do with it.

I've heard of a few people having problems in getting in touch with FTY on updates to their work. Also, check into Howell's 2.2 stroker block, I've never had 1 problem with mine and he also has the new forged cranks available

ya, i can always go through VT engines themself if i had to. however i may not get the 2.2L block. guranteed it would quite nice, i may end up sticking to just a rebuilt 2.0. considering the price difference is lets see, 3300-1650 = 1650, thats is a decent bit of money. hell i could spend the extra 1650 and get other needed stuff now rather than later on. but i dont know yet. ive been figuring out how much everything will cost. main part is how much it will cost to have the engine installed, which is not cheap. ill knwo more though in a couple weeks

I think you will find that we do the best work on the engines. We developed the stroker for the 420A, and most of the hardcore engine parts for it. We take much care building our engines. SO keep us in mind.

Well I have not totally decided on it yet. I may even just stick to getting a rebuilt 2.0 instead of the stroke (one, its way much cheaper) and i could spend that money on other parts. but i have not decided yet so im still thinking about it. however im pretty sure on the turbo part, unless i get the SC-34 or 44 instead of the 60, just not sure how much the spooling characteristics of them would be diff from each other

I would run a stock 9.6 or a 10.

well im not going to run higher than 9.0:1, mainly since im planning to run around 18-20 psi of boost daily. not much a fan of high compression and boost, but thats me

Originally posted by Eagle 5
Well I have not totally decided on it yet. I may even just stick to getting a rebuilt 2.0 instead of the stroke (one, its way much cheaper) and i could spend that money on other parts. but i have not decided yet so im still thinking about it. however im pretty sure on the turbo part, unless i get the SC-34 or 44 instead of the 60, just not sure how much the spooling characteristics of them would be diff from each other

Whatever you deside to do we can help you with anything that you need parts, complete engine, or even just technical support. Just call our tech line for advice, you usually will get me.

Only ever had on complaint on an engine we built. It was investigated through arbitration sponsored by the credit card company. After the investigation and review of the evidence, they found the problem was inflected by the owner. And the arbitration board, never ever ever finds against the purchaser unless the evidence of their wrong doing is overwhelming, guy basically tried to get us to pay for his mistake. The arbitration board saw right through it, and found we had built the engine correctly.

We build a lot of engines, and have no complaints on them. We do little things that make the engines better than most, and we ship them all over the world. We have sold our engines in 5 different countries, because we have the reputation for building the best.

Don't take our word for it, check around and ask the people that own them.

If you read below, you'll gather that I am the one who Gary is referring to.

Let me set this straight. As far as finances are concerned, the arbitrator did decide in your favor, but what the hell does an arbitrator really know about engines???? Nothing. I'm sure he took a look at your "no warrenty expressed or implied" claus and just dismissed me. Let's get to the facts one more time.

You sent me an ugly nasty core block with paint covering up the massive layer of rust. All of the threaded holes were completely rusted out and at least required tapping. Some needed to be drilled out completely and tapped for a larger bolt. Unfortunately, I found this out the hard way on one of the first bolts that I went to thread in. One of my friends helping me out tried to thread a hardened bolt in slowly with an adjustable impact wrench. Well as we discovered, that wasn't a good idea because the bolt caused the lower portion of the bolt hole to break off. Now, mind you he was not reaming on the bolt with the impact gun at full power. He was slowly advancing the bolt in a little bit then backing it off again like you would with a tap (using a lubricant). You based your case on the fact that this is what caused every seal in the block to leak.

Let me ask you this. How is it possible for that to cause all of these oil leaks: 1. rear main seal 2. front main seal 3. oil pump case 4. soft aluminum plug in the oil galley between the tranny and the block 5. soft aluminum plug behind the crank pulley. My case in court was that you advertised a "plug and play" block. Well, a plug and play block wouldn't have the threaded holes all rusted out in the first place would it? Not to mention 5 seperate oil leaks that were in no way caused by what we did (although you were able to convince some idiot arbitrator that it did i guess). I purchased your motor strictly to save me on downtime because I was in college at the time. If I would have had the time to get my block machined and assemble it myself, I would have done it, but going with a pre-built block seemed much more convienient. If I would have know the end result, I most certainly would have built it myself.

That's not the worst part of it though. The worst part was your attitude about the situation. If you hadn't been so rude to me on the phone, I never would have resorted to arbitration. I couldn't believe the response I got considering I'd just purchased over $3000 worth of parts from you, received the engine 5 weeks late, and got a 4g63 clutch instead of the one I needed without giving you any complaints on my end. You completely dismissed me and offered me a $20 refund for almost 3 months without a car (I could have rebuilt my own much faster).

Anyway, I would have spared the details of this experience (and I did spare some of them), but you know I just couldn't let this one go. I find it amusing that you are convinced that you aren't at all at fault just because some random arbitrator guy seemed to agree with you (or find that it was the correct LEGAL decision). Don't get me wrong though, I still have respect for what you guys do over at Howell Automotive. I just wont buy from you again.

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs Anyway, I would have spared the details of this experience (and I did spare some of them), but you know I just couldn't let this one go. I find it amusing that you are convinced that you aren't at all at fault just because some random arbitrator guy seemed to agree with you (or find that it was the correct LEGAL decision). Don't get me wrong though, I still have respect for what you guys do over at Howell Automotive. I just wont buy from you again.

The arbitraitor was not random, he was an automotive specialist. The details you left out, are why the arbitraitor ruled in our favor. I do not wish to argue with you. It serves no purpose. I understand you are bitter, but unfortunatly for us your direction of blame at us is not justifed, and the arbitraitor told you that.

Honestly, I'm not bitter anymore. I was just amused an I just couldn't leave it alone. The extra few times that I had to take the motor apart just made it all the easier taking it apart again later for fun. It wasn't ever about the money anyway, it was the principle of it that caused me to take it to arbitration.

The only part about this thread that I find questionable is that you are hijacking a thread regarding an engine sale with another vendor. What ever happened to professional courtasy? Tisk tisk...

no, actually i brought it up, and he responded to a post about his motor. I remember your posts from way back when all this started, and the story changed a few times. People respond to honesty better then being bs'd every time they turn around. I work very closely with Gary on alot of things, and I've seen where he makes a mistake, and he has no problem admitting a wrong doing and correcting it, but he's not a standard company where he lets himself get dicked over if he's not at fault.

The story hasn't changed, but it is an old story. Anyway, no thread war pls :P. We could argue this one to the death, but that wouldn't be fun because we'd both be dead.

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs
The story hasn't changed, but it is an old story. Anyway, no thread war pls :P. We could argue this one to the death, but that wouldn't be fun because we'd both be dead.

lol, i got an idea, bring me a shrubbery and we call it even

Would you settle for a nice slab of tube steak??

negatory, i'm all sold out, i gave out about 4 helpings smothered in underwear and mayo today so i'm spent

Omg I'm gonna laugh out a lung. If I do laugh it out would you like that???

you realize, these blocks are built from cores, that yes, are inspected thoroughly before going into the rebuilding phase, but they are afterall old motors that have been in cars previously.

Case in point, my 2.2 stroker was built from a neon block, some of the bolt holes in my block had NEVER had a bolt in them yet, and yea I had to run a tap in 'em just to clean them up, but if I was putting a $3000 block in any car, I'm going to check and DOUBLE check every small thread on it just to make sure. It's calling knowing how to do things right.

You put a HARDENED bolt in the hole to clean up the threads, problem is they're not notched and don't have points the stress can release at like a tap does, so no wonder you cracked off the corner of your block. I know of about 12 other people personally running Howell blocks, and we've never ever ever had a problem with ours yet, maybe it was just an ID 10 T error here

Originally posted by Glacius
you realize, these blocks are built from cores, that yes, are inspected thoroughly before going into the rebuilding phase, but they are afterall old motors that have been in cars previously. Case in point, my 2.2 stroker was built from a neon block, some of the bolt holes in my block had NEVER had a bolt in them yet, and yea I had to run a tap in 'em just to clean them up, but if I was putting a $3000 block in any car, I'm going to check and DOUBLE check every small thread on it just to make sure. It's calling knowing how to do things right. You put a HARDENED bolt in the hole to clean up the threads, problem is they're not notched and don't have points the stress can release at like a tap does, so no wonder you cracked off the corner of your block. I know of about 12 other people personally running Howell blocks, and we've never ever ever had a problem with ours yet, maybe it was just an ID 10 T here

And maybe it wasn't. Maybe it was because it was late at night and no stores were open to go pick up the right tap. Maybe since the block was 5 weeks late, I was short on time and had to get it installed before classes started again (18 credits in a semester is a real bitch you know)?? Maybe I know more about engines than you ever will. Maybe you shouldn't be so quick to criticise on a topic that in no way involves you. Maybe n00bs like youself just shouldn't talk at all ;) j/k. But of course these are all a bunch of maybes lol.

vtcomp needs to come in here and show ya hows its done
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

DarkOne> Screw you guys, i'm going home.
chrysler kid> and fyi i have never HAD to shave.
DR1665> I'm sure your Talon and my Talon are all there needs to be, since we're the only two Talons that really matter around here

Originally posted by sarahdr1665
...some girls like the "nerdy" guys

yea, mistakes happen. I'm not 100% perfect. When i first put in the drag 3spd I didn't even pay attention to make sure I had the converter all the way onto the shaft and then had to pull it back out cuz i couldn't mount it to the flexplate. That's what working late at night does to you. A hardened bolt don't have flutes like a tap, so I'm sure u can see where that problem comes from.

And just so ya people know, we're not at each others throats, this happened so long ago we're actually just chillin talkin about it on aim ;)

Originally posted by AFX_ManufacturingWhatever you deside to do we can help you with anything that you need parts, complete engine, or even just technical support. Just call our tech line for advice, you usually will get me.

I do have a question for you. The SPAL fans that come with the CR Racing Radiator Avenger & 2GNT 4 cylinder, are they slimline fans, like are they thinner than the stock fans so you have more room in the engine bay? or are they the same thickness? im thinking about getting one and wanted to know how the size of the fans (mainly the thickness) compares to stock.

in regards to the dispute going on, please dont talk about that here. whatever happened, happened. someone had a bad experience and whether or not it was there fault i dont know, and personally dont care. btu i do thank both parties for at least letting me know. always helps somewhat when you hear about experiences, even if they are unclear. either way. please dont talk about it here. this post is about what engine i want to put in my car and any opinions or ideas people have.

im either going with the 2.2L stroker, or I may stick to the 2.0L and spend the extra money on other things i need instead.

Originally posted by Eagle 5

Originally posted by AFX_ManufacturingWhatever you deside to do we can help you with anything that you need parts, complete engine, or even just technical support. Just call our tech line for advice, you usually will get me.

I do have a question for you. The SPAL fans that come with the CR Racing Radiator Avenger & 2GNT 4 cylinder, are they slimline fans, like are they thinner than the stock fans so you have more room in the engine bay? or are they the same thickness? im thinking about getting one and wanted to know how the size of the fans (mainly the thickness) compares to stock. in regards to the dispute going on, please dont talk about that here. whatever happened, happened. someone had a bad experience and whether or not it was there fault i dont know, and personally dont care. btu i do thank both parties for at least letting me know. always helps somewhat when you hear about experiences, even if they are unclear. either way. please dont talk about it here. this post is about what engine i want to put in my car and any opinions or ideas people have. im either going with the 2.2L stroker, or I may stick to the 2.0L and spend the extra money on other things i need instead.

The radiators use a slim line fan. I don't have a stock one here to compare to, but it should increase the room.

As for teh dispute, I never brought it up, and ask Darkone if it was ok to defend ourselves with the truth before putting anything, and then I did not respond directly to the guy so that we could avoid a flame war. I have tried to avoid it.

The 2.2 will give you a 10% increase in displacement which basically will translate to a 10% increase in power for what ever you do. If you have a 200hp 2.0, you will have a 220hp 2.2. It is not exact, but pretty close to what will happen.

Originally posted by AFX_Manufacturing
I think you will find that we do the best work on the engines. We developed the stroker for the 420A, and most of the hardcore engine parts for it. We take much care building our engines. SO keep us in mind.

Speaking from first hand experience with both Howell Automotive and FTY/VT, I gotta dissagree with you there. I have your 2.0 block in my car as I'm sure you remember, and I have had nothing but bad luck with it. As far as internal assembly is concerned, you did a nice job (i took it all apart and checked it myself ;)). However, the 4 oil leaks that caused me to have to remove the motor twice to fix was quite frustrating and the way I was treated by your company was unbelievably sub-par.

I used to live about 10 minutes away from VT and have seen the kind of work they do. They don't ship blocks with a 1/8 inch layer of rust on them and a light blue coat of paint covering it up. Their machining equipment is all state of the art and much of their staff has been building race engines for 20+ years. If you like you can read about one of their many famous engines here: http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0303ht_tenaciousb/index.html and here: http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0304ht_bastardb/ Their shop is kept so clean, you could eat off of the floor (see here for a visual: http://www.vtengines.com/about1.htm). They are the real deal, not just some people working out of a poll barn or a home garage (not that you are either). Also, its great that you guys pioneered the first stroker motor and I give you credit for that. However, FTY uses a custom forged crank for it that gives you more than 2.2L of displacement (instead of less and rounding up). So, I give you both credit for pioneering 2 different engines.

I think its a rather rude and arrogent statement to jump on a thread about a motor built by another vendor saying, "I think you will find that we do the best work on the engines." Speaking from experience with both vendors, I think you'll find that you're mistakn'.

Originally posted by Matt_95tgs
... Also, its great that you guys pioneered the first stroker motor and I give you credit for that. However, FTY uses a custom forged crank for it that gives you more than 2.2L of displacement (instead of less and rounding up)...

Sorry I was the 1st one to get the Stroker Motor Built. After I dropped it into my car I wanted more cubes, then went after swapping the 2.4L

Vt all the way don't bother with howell. Kinda looks funny when a company comes on here and wants to claw back and be rude. o called once gave me the run around on the credit card i was using never called back plus so many other places have cheaper pricese. Still vt/fty for anything plus matt is a good guy and a x michiganer.

Do not start this shit on my forum.

This is your warning.

Thank you.

Originally posted by 95 silver gs
Vt all the way don't bother with howell. Kinda looks funny when a company comes on here and wants to claw back and be rude. o called once gave me the run around on the credit card i was using never called back plus so many other places have cheaper pricese. Still vt/fty for anything plus matt is a good guy and a x michiganer.

Darkone, Sorry I didn't want to respond, but I feel I must.

Matt is making false statements about my company. We do not let that going unchallenged.

We don't give people the run around on credit cards, either your bank aprroves them or not. We can not override what your bank says, most people know that.

Our cost on forged stroker is the lowest around.

Originally posted by AFX_Manufacturing

Originally posted by 95 silver gs Vt all the way don't bother with howell. Kinda looks funny when a company comes on here and wants to claw back and be rude. o called once gave me the run around on the credit card i was using never called back plus so many other places have cheaper pricese. Still vt/fty for anything plus matt is a good guy and a x michiganer.

Darkone, Sorry I didn't want to respond, but I feel I must. Matt is making false statements about my company. We do not let that going unchallenged. We don't give people the run around on credit cards, either your bank aprroves them or not. We can not override what your bank says, most people know that. Our cost on forged stroker is the lowest around.

i left a question for you, but its a few posts up. its about the CR radiator you guys sell.

Originally posted by AFX_Manufacturing

Originally posted by 95 silver gs Vt all the way don't bother with howell. Kinda looks funny when a company comes on here and wants to claw back and be rude. o called once gave me the run around on the credit card i was using never called back plus so many other places have cheaper pricese. Still vt/fty for anything plus matt is a good guy and a x michiganer.

Darkone, Sorry I didn't want to respond, but I feel I must. Matt is making false statements about my company. We do not let that going unchallenged. We don't give people the run around on credit cards, either your bank aprroves them or not. We can not override what your bank says, most people know that. Our cost on forged stroker is the lowest around.

First off, I in no way made a false statement about your company. Every single thing I said in my above statement was 100% true. Everything that I spoke of happened. Like I said before, I no longer care that it happened because it's just one of those things, and I became even more familiar with my car because of it. I have no doubt that many many people have had zero problems with your prebuilt motors, but that doesn't change the fact that mine had several problems. Some of them were indeed my fault, but some certainly were not. Anyway, let's just bury the hatchet on this subject because I highly doubt we will ever come to an agreement.

Anyway, this bickering all started because you hijacked this thread with this quote: "I think you will find that we do the best work on the engines. We developed the stroker for the 420A, and most of the hardcore engine parts for it. We take much care building our engines. SO keep us in mind." This is so rude it makes me want to puke. You just completely put out FTY and VT to promote yourself on a thread where the person who started it is speaking of buying THEIR engine. You came on here just to steal their business and that's just plain rude, period. If someone started a thread talking about buying a block from Howell Automotive, the guys from VT or FTY would never butt in the way you did. It would be bad business.

Edit* I just looked up and saw your post Dino. Sorry about going into the details of this, but I just couldn't let it go when he portrayed it that way... I apologise and I won't speak of it again around here if it will make your friday a little better.

How about we let this die gentleman. I don't want to have to lock this thread.




Exile Racing Technologies: http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

Originally posted by afx_manufacturing
I think you will find that we do the best work on the engines. We developed the stroker for the 420A, and most of the hardcore engine parts for it. We take much care building our engines. SO keep us in mind.

Eagle 5: Call me up. I make u speaciel deal. Sucky sucky $5. You call me, I love you long time. Did I say love? I meant whore myself out. same difference. Don't forget about 'tool!

You're talking like you INVENTED stroker engines. Who cares that you made a stroker for a 420a? Anyone can get a crank welded up, it's not like you came up with the idea of increasing the displacement of an internal combustion engine. Man you talk like you're the only one who knows anything about the 420a :wary

Originally posted by matt_95tgs
What ever happened to professional courtasy?"

professional curtsey? kurtasee? courtesea? Oh, I get it, Courtesy! :thumbsup

Originally posted by Glacius
but he's not a standard company where he lets himself get dicked over if he's not at fault.

What standard companies do you do business with that let themselves get dicked over? Can I get some of their numbers from you? I'd like to dick some people over - that'd be fun!

Originally posted by Glacius
negatory, i'm all sold out, i gave out about 4 helpings smothered in underwear and mayo today so i'm spent

That's even more disgusting than my post about Dino's man juice. Okay, it's amost that disgusting.

Originally posted by turbo8u
vtcomp needs to come in here and show ya hows its done

vtcomp needs to come in here and get on his knees again. I'll thump his skull with the head of my cock again.

Originally posted by afx_manufacturing
The 2.2 will give you a 10% increase in displacement which basically will translate to a 10% increase in power for what ever you do. If you have a 200hp 2.0, you will have a 220hp 2.2. It is not exact, but pretty close to what will happen.

This isn't always true - is that what you tell people? With a turbo you're not going to magically increase airflow because you put a bigger engine under the air pump.

Originally posted by afx_manufacturing
Our cost on forged stroker is the lowest around.

Your slogan should be "Rock bottom parts, rock bottom prices :thumbsup"

Now where's that thread about Wiseco pistons?...

Well, this thread reminds me more of a bad Jerry Springer show or something.