Hello Shocked has contacted me and wants me to build him a monster 2.4

But would like to have some input from all you guys also.

Here is what i have came up with so far.
(Motor Work will be done by VT Comp)
2.4 block
pauter x beam rods
CP Pistons compression ratio 8.5:1 coated by SwainTech ceramic and moly
possible oil attraction coating on the bearings
balanced and blue printed bottom end
Melling Oil Pump
mopar gaskets
srt4 timing belt tensioner
UR/AFX pulley
Bob Stockum Windage Tray
possible oil attraction coating on the engine bearings and pickup tube.

Cylinder head Port Work Done by NRGY Heads(Ex BlackDog Port Guy)
Ferrea valves coated with ceramic atleast (jury is still open 1mm or std)
full radius valve job(more surface area for valve to cool and also flows better)
coatings on the chambers and exhaust ports (ceramic)
crower springs and retainers
PT lifters and rockers
Crower or Crane Cams..
UR or Crane Cam gears

side notes the manifold and turbine housing will be ceramic coated

and also looking into jet hot coating the inside of the IC pipes.
(ceramic)

this is going to be matched to a Hahn RaceCraft Turbo Kit s25g with FMIC
recomended true 3" turbo back exhaust

my recomendation is for an AEM standalone equipped with a wideband

recomended drivetrain mods
axles
stage4 clutch with light flywheel
LSD and diff pin fix
solid motor mounts or atleast prothanes

Bill

the names shockeclipse biotch...but no people I would really appreciate getting as much feedback and/or questions about this as i can.

how much is this going to set you back shock?

Well it will all depend on what kind of feedback I get and if I decide to go with all that motofool has proposed. I am trying to get opinions to make my final decision. I would really like to hear what some of the guys on here with built and turbo'd motors think and what kind of gains people would think I would be able to get out of this kind of setup with proper tuning. So c'mon people lets here what you all think.

Personally, I would say go for it. Bill's never done me wrong and always been able to help me out. I don't car what that flamer has to say about his work. Besides, the block will be assembled by VT and the headwork done right here in Phoenix at NRGY heads. If Bill's taking care of the outsourcing of all the sub assy's, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Bill will make sure you get everything you need and everything he promised.

You don't think he's watching his ass especially close after all the heat he's taken lately? Besides, maybe if you send some business his way, he'll have a couple bones to spread around to the people he owes money too.

If I was in the market again - I'd call MotoFool again. :thumbsup

Originally posted by DR1665
Personally, I would say go for it. Bill's never done me wrong and always been able to help me out. I don't car what that flamer has to say about his work. Besides, the block will be assembled by VT and the headwork done right here in Phoenix at NRGY heads. If Bill's taking care of the outsourcing of all the sub assy's, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Bill will make sure you get everything you need and everything he promised. You don't think he's watching his ass especially close after all the heat he's taken lately? Besides, maybe if you send some business his way, he'll have a couple bones to spread around to the people he owes money too. If I was in the market again - I'd call MotoFool again. :thumbsup

thanks for the response but It's not a matter of whether or not I trust him....its a matter of what i should do as far as what is concerned with the setup..

god thats over 15K in parts/labor, not worth it IMO
why not just build up the 2.0L.
or do what brynden did with the 2.6L
or just buy a faster car.

IMO its not worth all the money and time, but yes when your done it will be one hell of a machine.

Wish I had all that money to blow

Originally posted by mcgyvr
god thats over 15K in parts/labor, not worth it IMO why not just build up the 2.0L. or do what brynden did with the 2.6L or just buy a faster car. IMO its not worth all the money and time, but yes when your done it will be one hell of a machine. Wish I had all that money to blow

Yeah who knows....I might even just give up the idea and just build up my bottom end and build a custom turbo.... who knows

I would hope this motor would be a bit faster then bryndens with the setup it will have..

the car would definatly be impressive as long as the tuner is god as the engine builders..

Bill

Originally posted by MotoFool
I would hope this motor would be a bit faster then bryndens with the setup it will have.. the car would definatly be impressive as long as the tuner is god as the engine builders.. Bill

How fast would we be looking here anyway.

Speaking from expierience (onebaddsm98 and I were one of the first to swap a 2.4 in a 2gnt) building a 2.0 will be a whole hell of alot easier. Just make shure you know what you are getting into and if all the head aches are worth the extra .4L of displacement. Having said that the motor spools a BB t3/t4 like nothing, but the car has never really been tuned or ran really well for that matter.

well easy 450-500 hp as long as someone tuned it right

times depends on the driver, if the car was properly setup should beable to hit low 11's high 10's

in all reality if tuning was up to par and driver ability was there you should be faster then hahn with more displacement but power aint everything..

Bill

oh and mike skrilla hada 2.4 first he recently just got out of trouble the last couple weeks i was talking with him last week...

Bill

hes making about 210whp na, he used to be turbo ..

why not just get the AWD train form the chrysler vans and get the fty 2.2 liter 420a turbo awd that redlines at 9k, 150 shot capable with a level 10 tranny?

thats what im talkin about. turbo awd 420a in the 6's BIOTCHHHHHHHH
_________
96 talon esi-t
san clemente, ca

I would say that looks like a nice setup on paper. There are a few things I would like to add though. 1. I dont like all of the coatings for a few reasons. The main reason is because when you add coatings to a machined surface or bearing, it throws the clearance off that the block was machined for. There isn't much benefit in moly coating bearings. I've heard bill say before that it reduces friction by 15% (or somewhere around there), but that number is taken at idle... At idle, who really cares... When your motor is making power (4k+ rpm), those moly coatings may free up 0.0001 HP which, to me is not worth messing with the clearance tolorances. Not to mention the extra money you spend for it. Now, ceramic coating the exhaust ports and the exhaust manifold makes sense. As for the pistons, if it were me, I'd leave them alone. There is no need to ceramic coat CP pistons, or any good forged piston for that matter. When the block is machined, any good machine shop like VT will take into account how hot the pistons will get and machine the piston to wall clearance accordingly. If you plan to run mad boost and nitrous, just tell them and they will machine the block for that. Forged pistons are meant to expand and contract with heat. If your car is tuned so poorly that you melt a piston, ceramic coating it wouldn't have done much to save you anyway. As for moly coating the piston skirts, again I wouldn't do it (but that's just me).

My other concern lies with the standalone system. Before you dive into a true standalone system like the AEM, you'd better know what you are doing when it comes to tuning, and you'd better have access to a dyno for a long long long time (very expensive to tune on). The AEM system does not come with any preset maps for your car. It will be a big enough pain in the ass just to get it to idle nice, let alone tune it throughout the entire powerband. There are shops out there (like VT) who are certified by AEM to install and tune their standalone systems. If you decide to go that route, I highly recommend you let them tune it and nobody else, unless you really really turst them that they know what they're doing. I wouldnt ever recommend a standalone to someone who doesn't do their own engine work and tuning.

As for the engine internals, you can't go wrong with cp pistons or pauter rods. They are both top notch.

If I were you, I would also look at the new stroker motor that FTY/VT are selling. It is a 2.0 block so you dont have to deal with all the issues that come with a 2.4 swap. It comes with a bulletproof brand new custom forged crank that puts the stroker motor's displacement at 2.238 liters. Not to mention, you get a crank that's capable of turning 9000+ rpm no problem. If you haven't seen it before, check it out at http://www.fasterthanyou.com/420A_engines.cfm (the domestic killer).

That's all I can think of for now...

side topic but since when has our crank ever failed to turn 9000 rpms? mohlers running 10k all the time...

i guess the difference would be paying that much extra to keep the dropin ability of 2.0 vers the 2.4 ...

Bill

Originally posted by MotoFool
side topic but since when has our crank ever failed to turn 9000 rpms? mohlers running 10k all the time... i guess the difference would be paying that much extra to keep the dropin ability of 2.0 vers the 2.4 ... Bill

Any time you cut and weld a crank to create stroker, you create the posibility of weaks spots that will give way with time. There's a difference between stock crank, and stock welded crank. If I was going stroker I'd love the new crower crank.

Besides show me someone turning 9000rpm on a 420A.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

look up scott mohler hes running 10second passes at 10krpms in the black NA neon

jason at fast fabrications built the intake and exhaust and i dunno who built the head on it...

i do know the crank was lightned so much it dont look like a 420a crank no more...

Bill

on the note of cutting and welding a stock crank to make it a 2.2 im with ya michael. i was refering to more stock crank not cut or welded would take 9krpms..

Are you 100% positive that it's a stock crank? Even so, I wouldn't trust a cast and offset ground crank to spin 10k rpm. I don't know any GOOD engine builder who would. Also, I'm assuming that the person you speak of is running a 2.0 and not a stroker crank correct? That makes a difference in case you didn't know ;)

I know of Scott Mohler. He's now running a 2.4L in a new Neon body with a Mopar sponcership, as I recall, he used to be with Nemo, through Captain Nemo and CNNP Racing (like changing his shop's name could hide bad customer service). Last I heard he's running a heavily build 2.4L Electromotive Quad TB's, etc.

To my knowledge the 2.2L welded crank hasn't been run that high especially on a regular basis, I don't know that I would trust it to. It's the welded cranks that give me pause. It's an efficient way to do it. But it definately has it's down side.

The nice thing about the Crower crank is that it provides a true 2.2L, and if you do spin a bearing is likely to take the brunt of the damage because the new crank is stronger.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

i was speaking 2.0 not 2.2 crank up there for clarification anyways

back to the topic at hand guys..

Bill

so far we have 1 suggestion to mot use the moly coatings...

and 2.2 up in the air

Coat inside and out of the IC pipes, not just inside.



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

Originally posted by Michael_97RS
Coat inside and out of the IC pipes, not just inside. http://www.exileracing.com una salus victus Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

Why outside?

1. The cost to clean and coat inside and out isn't much. Depending on the color and type of coating you choose it's something like $10 a foot?
2. Protection. As long as the coating is on, the metal doesn't rust.
3. The ceramic coating protects from heat. Why only coat the inside and let the coating insulate the pipe that's been hot from being soaked in heat from the outside. Start fighting heat as soon as possible.
4. It looks damn good



http://www.exileracing.com
una salus victus
Mods List: http://highlander.dsmpower.com/sig.htm

hmmm. So would this kinda be like powdercoating? I saw that you mentioned color. Because I would Like to have it if not exact then pretty damn close to the color of my car

with ceramic on the inside you could powder coat the outside..

or if you did jethot on both the pipes would look like chrome basically..

Bill

Originally posted by MotoFool
with ceramic on the inside you could powder coat the outside.. or if you did jethot on both the pipes would look like chrome basically.. Bill

ewww...chrome:puke

so are you gonna do this or what ? If so I agree with turbo. Just go all out. Remember you are gonna need traction. Try to do the awd conversion along with that beast of a motor.


Hello Mr. 12's . How are you today ?


Member # 333

Originally posted by Remy
so are you gonna do this or what ? If so I agree with turbo. Just go all out. Remember you are gonna need traction. Try to do the awd conversion along with that beast of a motor. Hello Mr. 12's . How are you today ? Member # 333

Ok well you need to understand that no matter what gets done to my engine it WILL be boosted. If it comes down to me not deciding to go this route then I will just work with what I have instead of doing either 2.4 or 2.2.

Save a lot of money and build up the 2.0, there is a 420A based Neon making 470 whp and 428TQ on race gas and 8.8 pistons, 592 whp and 521 TQ on a 100 shot nitrous.

BTW there is nothing coated in this motor, I should know, I was there when the motor was built ;-) ahem.......... had a little input on the head as well.........
Did I mention he is running a stock computer and stock ignition?

LOL, all it takes is a little proper tuning, now if you need more then 600 whp then you might want to do that 2.4, and no.. he doesn't use a timing pc to retard ignition.

read all about it
http://www.neons.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=138625&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=mohler+rod+block&start=0&sid=2321647059bf1fa5be2bc45f98563242

hes running a accel dfi gen 7 that makes a good bit of difference

yes thats len and its interesting that he is the only one that can make the power.

im not doubting it but noone else has been able to come close..

he will not show us the dyno graph so we dont know what his power curve is like to tell if that car is streetable..

Originally posted by MotoFool
hes running a accel dfi gen 7 that makes a good bit of difference yes thats len and its interesting that he is the only one that can make the power. im not doubting it but noone else has been able to come close.. he will not show us the dyno graph so we dont know what his power curve is like to tell if that car is streetable..

No, he is not running an Accel dfi gen 7 system, he runs his own Chill Factory fuel system set up and Accel fuel injetors, that's it.

He comes over to the shop often and I have been under the hood , you are thinking about his old Hahn car. This is not it.

And anybody can get close to those numbers , there is another Neon that I built, that has the exact same potential motorwise, except it is an automatic tranny vehicle.

Ask Babyblueclipse, he has seen the car personally and had his down pipe done by Len.

For $6200 you can get this exact same set up, minus the nitrous kit.
Everything included , needed to run these numbers.

Want proof, call Len at the Chill Factory, BTW I am the one that did the P&P cylinder head for him............;-)

i dont need proff len ayala can make those numbers.. a dyno would be nice to see his power curve but he wont show it...

and for 6200$ you can get a neon turbo kit nota 2gnt turbo kit.

i didn't know len had a new management system (dont follow him around or ever seen his car in person)

hes definatly got alot of work and hes been building this car for a LONG time.

im sure someone can make close to the same numbers with his turbo kit but until he has one for a 2gnt what are we supposed to do?

the hahn uses the same manifold and turbo setup a decent FMIC the fuel system lacks but that is upgradeable between the 3k and 6k price difference between hahn and chill factorys Neon turbo kit.

Bill

a properly designed 2.0 with proper management should no problem be able to make that power its just a matter of time and money and a good tuner.

the closeest ive seen on this board is armond at 400hp or so but he cant keep from melting pistons even coated. (that was a problem with his msd but i dunno how thigns are now)
he was stage 5 accell dfi ported head cams the works and thats the highest number that ive seen reached here in 2gnt land.

if len had a 2.4 and a 25g im sure he could make 550hp no n2o

Eddie you did a great job on lens and brians head i have no doubt in anything len or you have to say... if the 420a 2gnt turbo kit will be ready soon we can look into that option.

shocked wanted the best so i drew up "The Best" i could think of with what i knew worked.
building a 2.0 would be considered good and the 2.4 would be the best it will always make more power that is why i drew up a 2.4 motor plan.

Bill

Originally posted by MotoFool
Eddie you did a great job on lens and brians head i have no doubt in anything len or you have to say... if the 420a 2gnt turbo kit will be ready soon we can look into that option. shocked wanted the best so i drew up "The Best" i could think of with what i knew worked. building a 2.0 would be considered good and the 2.4 would be the best it will always make more power that is why i drew up a 2.4 motor plan. Bill

I also requested the 2.4 setup just to be different. I mean people HAVE done it but not that many and I want to hit good numbers onthe dyno with whatever setup I choose. I like to try and do different, however difficult things...just to try and set myself apart. I appreciate all of the feedback I am recieving on this guys please keep it up. This is going to be a pretty big decision for me so I want to keep up the feedback.

Originally posted by Shockeclipse

Originally posted by MotoFool Eddie you did a great job on lens and brians head i have no doubt in anything len or you have to say... if the 420a 2gnt turbo kit will be ready soon we can look into that option. shocked wanted the best so i drew up "The Best" i could think of with what i knew worked. building a 2.0 would be considered good and the 2.4 would be the best it will always make more power that is why i drew up a 2.4 motor plan. Bill

I also requested the 2.4 setup just to be different. I mean people HAVE done it but not that many and I want to hit good numbers onthe dyno with whatever setup I choose. I like to try and do different, however difficult things...just to try and set myself apart. I appreciate all of the feedback I am recieving on this guys please keep it up. This is going to be a pretty big decision for me so I want to keep up the feedback.

Good answer. The 2.4L is very different. 20 over brings it to 2.5L. I hit full spool on my BB T4 by 3K. The TQ was ridiculous and it ran good. I've yet to see a 2.4L swap with the 2gnt cylinder head making decent numbers with full boltons and some light engine work though. Mine is comparable to a 2L w/5lbs intercooled. You will need to do several little things to get the 2.4L running properly but it is all accomplishable. I don't think anyone has really taken the time to do it. This gives me reason to finish my partial writeup to the one posted on the main site. I only gave part of the information since there is so much to know to get the ball rolling. That write up is so old I did part of the work before I ever dropped the motor into my car, LOL.

http://www.2gnt.com/www/files/2.4L/2.4L.htm

25% more engine is huge. 25% more engine makes 140HP into 165+HP. How about 25% more power from all the bolton you've installed on your 2L. Light boltons are great but make big numbers on engines that can push more air. 2L and 7200 revs doesn't do much when compared to an RSX with mods or turbos with mods so to get by that we use a low breathing engine (stock 2.4L) lose the silent (balance) shafts, raise rpms to 7K toss in some lights mods and low head mill.

No stage 1 turbo should be able to keep up with you.

bump

buy


Hello Mr. 12's . How are you today ?


Member # 333

Originally posted by Remy
buy Hello Mr. 12's . How are you today ? Member # 333

lol i wish the decision was as easy as that....I did that with my seats.and now I keep wondering where that money went:shrug

Originally posted by Shockeclipse

Originally posted by Remy buy Hello Mr. 12's . How are you today ? Member # 333

lol i wish the decision was as easy as that....I did that with my seats.and now I keep wondering where that money went:shrug

...You should buy

Motofool knows his stuff


:o MotoFool...Check your mail! I tried to get a hold of you

...You should buy Motofool knows his stuff :o

Well is THIS the definate setup i should get? Either way i go about anything I will be working with Motofool. He definately knows his stuff and from talking to him I have learned a lot. I just want to make sure that I am going to have a nice badass setup when the dust settles.....mmmm my turkey smells so good.......:cheers

I just started researching for my rebuild and I already think I'll end up going w/the new 2.2L from VTY about 6 months from now...if my motor doesn't blow before then. mmmm 9000rpms

bump

Hey moto...Can you make me a price write up on everything? With total prices? and email me it?

sure do you want everything listed ^^ there?

id have to find out what swain tech will charge for the coatings

Originally posted by MotoFool
sure do you want everything listed ^^ there? id have to find out what swain tech will charge for the coatings

Yeah get me all the info you can please. Then we can decide on what stays and what goes etc. And I can possibly search for better prices.