How many of you would be willing to buy a new 420A bare race block for $2400.

It would be aluminum.
It would have larger over bore capibility
It would be availible with a taller deck height (2.4 with the swap hassels)
It would be capable of 3.0 liters of displacement.
It would have extra stiffing for turbo applications (like 50 psi +)

I need to get a feel on how this item would sell.

damn dude, I would

sounds promising...you have my interest.

Depending on how well it holds up, anywhere from relatively to highly interested. I'll give you a definite answer when you break one, and let us know when that happened.

Interested......

Let us know when you have more info.

>>>I'll give you a definite answer when you break one, and let us kno when that happened

haha, my thoughts exactly. and by "bare bones" you mean no internals? so internals would be another thousand or so?

Wow.. So much for NDA's :thumbsup

If i could afford it.. i'd do it. if i blew mine up first. that would be sweeeet.

You have my attention can't wait to see the test results... and if you want to test it on a 95 then please get in touch with me....

Sounds like something very promising. I'm interested as to what options oyu might offer with it, ie price with interneals, giving a choice of displacement etc......Keep us posted as to the pregress of the testing.....

Oh, and Weight of this vs. weight of stock block? every pound counts(well, not EVERY pound, but they add up, especially since I haven't been doing any sit-ups this summer)

I would be verrrry interested... have you made one of these monsters yet? Any pictures? About the weight, it is an aluminum block, so if there is additional weight, it would not be appreciable. Furthermore, complaining about the additional weight of a block that can increase your displacement is like griping about the added weight of a turbo kit. It isn't unsprung weight, and it adds power. Very much worth it.
-=B-=

After speaking to Gary about this, it seems that in addition to the possibility of 3L of displacement, that these blocks will be fire ringed and utilize cross bolted mains - systems designed to run under 5000HP top fuel motors. This is the kind of engine that could make 1500HP and TAKE IT. For $2400, this is a steal.

Quotes from the Head Honcho himself: "These will be blocks with cross bolted mains, that are designed to live under a 5000 hp top fuel hemi, so we are not going to break them."
"We are talking of fire ringing the top, so you can run 60 pounds of boost. WE can build a 1500 hp 420A for real."

Only $2400, people. He's talking about having a working prototype by December.

Yeah, but what are we gonna do to strengthen everything else to take that kinda power? Bye Bye transaxle, bye shit.. most everything stock... That would end up way to costly for the average joe... i'd market it mainly to race teams and shit, hehe.. and make it availiable to the rich guys as well, hehe.

Potentially. Nobody said you had to make it a 1500HP beast.

The weight savings alone would be a signifigant gain. Think - more HP, closer to a 50/50 weight distribution, less weight overall. Even if it's a 2.0L block, you just dropped 100+lbs off it. The cross bolted mains and o-ringed deck make it virtually indestructable. if anyone wanted to build a full race 420A, this is the block to buy.

well i agree, i think it is a steal for the performance gains and the potential of the high hp output. however, from a marketing aspect i can't see the practicality in paying 2400 just for the block when doing a rebuild. a turbo, internals, block and tranny needed to take advantage of what that block could do would be well into the 8-10k$ range. and from a marketing aspect i don;t see many of us being able to afford something liek that when our stock block can support the hp needs of 95% or 420a owners.

so i'd have to say gary, if you can make money on building a few go for it and let us know, but i wouldn't expect that to be a really huge seller...just my .02

mark

well, if it was set at a certain place where I could send my car to and have a certain set downtime and a certain set price, hell yea, I'd take out a loan and do it tomorrow, otherwise it sounds like it could get hairy

forget the stroker.. :-) i may have to rebuild with that bad boy... if i have the $ i would be interested.

i'd say no (only reason becuase its to much money). what is wrong with our block? for people that want to make their car a full fledged drag car then it would be good for them, but not us others that just want to be faster than 90% of the other cars on the road. If you could lower the price and make a package deal with piston and rods etc. i would say you might be better with making the price some where around 3200 with the bottom end package you offer.

the whole race prep block sounds like a great idea but you got wonder who will actually buy it. but remember this is all my opinion.
thanks


PS - GARY --- I called you guys last week to tell you that you still need to pick up these piston rings from my house. Remember when i talked to you and you said you couldn't send out the other rings without getting those others back first. Well i don't want you to think i'm ripping you off. But still no FEDex or ups has come buy to get these. So i have a box of rings sitting at my house for you

thanks
Brian Peterson
541-389-0707

3.0L? Wow, for my NA project that would be outstanding! The only thing holdingme back now is money, but down the road I would be interested. Weight saving and cooling properties have to be outstanding. Cross bolt mains = beautiful. Sounds like a dream block.

Una salus victus.
"We are going to have peace even if we have to fight for it." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

by the time i have the cash to do anything else to my engine...it should be out..so i'll look into it...ehehe.

Wow, we must have a bunch of rich mo-fo's on this board... or a bunch of guys just looking to get into debt, haha. Seriously, I say race only basically... cause I see no reason to buy that unless your going 30+ psi, and who the hell needs more than 30psi on the street? I mean, the 420a block has been tried and proven for ~500hp now, 11 seconds on slicks, ... and if you happen to blow the mofo to hell... a replacement block is pretty easy/cheap to find... and if your not satisfied with an 11 second street car, you're just looking for an early death, haha.

I agree... there are too many other things holding us back to make proper use of that block. To run such high boost you would have to get a bigger turbo, and then a different manifold aka custom turbo kit, then there wouldn't be enough room so the fans would have to be relocated.... it just doesn't seem realistic to me. Maybe the 3.0 liter would be useful for people staying NA, but what would be the actual gain of .6 more liters? Is that worth 2400 bucks?

Don't get me wrong, it sounds like a great product, and I am sure you will sell some.

Now Brad... I know you bought the car with everythign installed... but there's quite a bit of money in mods on your car...

Una salus victus.
"We are going to have peace even if we have to fight for it." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

I'm game....:P

I'm with Brad on this one. It sounds like a great idea, but I'm having trouble harnessing 400hp. What would I do with an extra liter? My goal is to have an 11 sec street car, and a $2400 aluminum block won't help me get there from where I am now. If I build an all out race motor to put into a dedicated race car, then I would definately be interested. I think the market is very small on this one unfortunately. I'm sure Len would pick one up though...

I'm definately interested! Contact me with more info

i'd put one in my grandmas' PT cruiser...that bitch drives too fast anyways!

I would be interested...when I go boom.

Outside of a race proposition an easier way to think of a block like this is that it would be the equivalent of a turbo setup in cost for an all motor application with the ability to make relatively similar power.

If someone were dead set on truly proving a non turbo setup in our cars the cost would be easier to absorb.

Oh, and Brad is right. A lot of guys are saying yes, but I question if they really know what they are saying. Classic eyes bigger than then wallets/needs. The cost is reasonable for what it is for, but still more than even a standalone.

I saved costs by not even knife edging the crankshaft. I personally would have a LOT more to do before I even considered a race ready block. That is the last thing I would consider replacing.

I know the cost, and like you said for me it is the equivalant of saving for a turbo. It is not cheap as a number but it is cheap for what you are getting.

Will I have the money for this tomorrow? No, but down the road maybe a couple years, at which I should have one of the jobs I'm looking at, more money for play by far!

Una salus victus.
"We are going to have peace even if we have to fight for it." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Michael J. Kulaga
e-mail: Michael_97RS@2gntDSM.zzn.com aol IM: MJKulga
http://highlander.dsmpower.com/

All motor in the making.

Injen CAI, 55mm TB, P&P Intake Manifold, Hooker Header, GS-T Muffler, AFX UDP, S-AFC, 8.5mm Magnecor Wires, Crane Fireball HI-6DI2, SS Clutch Line, NRG Susp. Motor Mount Ins., FU/RU/RL STBs, TSW Blade 17x7.5, Bridgestone Potenza RE730, Front KVR Cross-Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Pads

To Be Installed: P&P Milled Head, Rear Disc Brakes, Rear KVR Cross Drilled Rotors & Carbon Fiber Kevlar Pads, SS Brake Lines

Thanks for your input.

I'd definately take one. That would be sweet!

can I just say "hell yes" ?


I have to side with the guys saying that you should make this a package with the internals included. It's just b/c we are trying to factor all the things that we would need to get with your setup... $2,400 is awesome and it's a concrete #, but what concerns us is all the other power train mods that we need to get that this engine would necessitate. internals would help us to knock off one extra factor. On the other hand I'm sure there are some guys out there that want the variability that the block offers though(but I'm not one of them.)

Also, in respect to demand for a "race block" capable of 1500hp, and 50 psi (can I also say OMG), I think if you cut these numbers in half you will have a much larger following here. Most of us want really fast rides, not full blown race cars. yes there are plenty of people here who just want to race their eclipses. but I want something you can take to the street more often... and I would definately include your block in my budget for upgrades.

ok, so 3L's NA ehh. That would be helpful, now would this 3L's come from stroking or boreing or both, cause if its a lot of stroking it would restrict revs which for NA even with 3L's wouldnt be good! Otherwise yes Im interested in more displacement, $2400 isnt bad(also isnt our block iron, if anything this would be lighter not heavier!) for what you are getting, skrillas site gave all the 2.4L info and it appears that the 2.4 really gives a great increase in power, so I think .6L would add a fair amount, even just 120hp per l would give 360hp, time to kill some vettes!!! Anyway Im very interested, just gotta start saving money.

That would be insane!

I don't know if many people are going to be willing to pay $2400 for a new block, plus however much money for supporting mods would be needed (huge turbo, stand alone setup, new tranny and axles and whatever).

I think it is a great idea if you are going to build a drag racing only engine. It could make the 420A the king of sport compact/import racing, the 4g63 and honda motors would become obsolete overnight.

I know an all aluminum 420A, with up to 3.0L of displacement holding 50 psi of boost and being able to take 1500 HP would be a steal for $2400, but that is just so mind boggling that I don't know if anyone would actually do it, unless they were rich and/or owned a shop and had a racing team. Maybe if their engine blew up and they were willing to go insane, but we'd betalking abut a 1500hp FWD, it would just do a 1/4 mile long burnout!

It sems too much for the average person. I would think it wouldn't be a high volume seller, maybe half a dozen to a dozen blocks a year or so.

I mean, if I blew up my engine tomorrow I wouldn't spend $2400 just to replace it, I'd get a regular block and if I needed to I'd just build up the internals and go to the 400-500 hp which is practical for a street car. The average person (even the average person who modifies cars) can't really handle more than 500 crank hp, and most people NEVER see that much hp! They maybe get to 350 or 400 crank HP (like your average turbo DSM owner once they push their car as far as they are willing to go), some get to about 450-500, but the majority of people never go that fast. We're talking about a 1500hp block, it's overkill for the average person.

Well before I read the 33 other opinions and get influenced I'd have to say probably not. Not for a typical street driven car anyway. It makes no sense when $500 pistons and $700 rods can support upwards of 600hp. $2400 can buy alot of shit towards reaching that 500+ hp. On the other hand people buy $2000 coilovers for cars that never see the track or get adjusted everyday for no good reason. This sounds like a much tougher sell with all the additional shit that goes along with making the displacement and power potential useful.

there aught to be enough neon racers and financially able eclipse NT and PT Cruiser fanatics combined to support a go of it. Note I say aught to be. I can think of but Mohler, Crawford and maybe some Hahn projects that would actually find it feasable/useful. I figure if I know 3 you probably now 30 more.

Put it this way. Honda's out number, out spend and out race every other import in this country by a large margin and companies just now are starting to find it feasable to make aftermarket blocks for them. You've managed to do damn well mostly selling 420A/neon parts and no honda parts so I guess it wont kill you to pioneer this effort as well. Just be prepared to hustle like a Chicago pimp. Convince Hahn to use it in a stage 7 kit or make one yourself. Make some turn key supercars, I'm sure no one will even notice the additional $2400 tacked on to a 3L 500hp PT, make some crate engines. Get some investors. Just do it.

After reading the other 33 post I know damn well 30 of 33 wont plunk down $2400 for a block (which does seem every reasonable for what it is).

Lets be honest here. Interest means didly sh*t. Look how much stroker, DSM shootout and real 2GNT Drag car "interest" there is. Then look at how many are around. I can count the number of known 12 second turbo 2GNTs on one hand and 14 second NA 2GNTs are the "only heard of em" mistery and your telling me there's really this much real interest in a aftermarket block.

Alright, just read through all this stuff...got a couple random ideas...

1) Summit Racing is offering $25,000 for the first 200mph sport compact. With 1500 HP this could be it...somebody with some cash to start this, could really make some big money off this.

2) With the option of boring the block, couldn't you, in theory, bore out the holes bigger, but put in a smaller stroke. In theory you could have a 2.0L running 25psi rapping out to 12-13,000rpms. SWEET!

3) I have to be with a lot of guys on this point...how much would it cost for a package deal. I have gone onto HRC and gotten a pretty concrete price on a stage V with everything needed, except sweat and elbow grease to pump out 500HP. How much would it cost to make this block put out 500HP? with internals, guages, all that jazz.

4) Tell me if I'm wrong on some of this stuff guys, so I don't look like a huge ass.


'98 Talon Esi

Mods:
Alpine CD Deck w/ 6d Changer|2 10" C2 Precision Power Subs|Fosgate 360a2 Amp
Apex'i N1 Catback Exhaust
Bosch Platinum +4 Plugs|K&N Drop-in Air Cleaner

"Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac!!"

>Alright, just read through all this stuff...got a couple
>random ideas...
>
>1) Summit Racing is offering $25,000 for the first 200mph
>sport compact. With 1500 HP this could be it...somebody
>with some cash to start this, could really make some big
>money off this.


That has already been done by the Turbonetics Celica. The cars that run in the Pro class cost more than $25K to build. That Celica for instance I'm willing to bet $20 has $25K in the engine and engine development alone (tundra V8, custom block, twin turbo ect).

>3) I have to be with a lot of guys on this point...how much
>would it cost for a package deal. I have gone onto HRC and
>gotten a pretty concrete price on a stage V with everything
>needed, except sweat and elbow grease to pump out 500HP.
>How much would it cost to make this block put out 500HP?
>with internals, guages, all that jazz.

The only way to make 500hp would be with forced induction at which point you could do the same thing with the stock block. For $2400 you could purchase JE pistons, Eagle rods, clutch upgrade, choose a better performing turbo option and mstill make 500hp. Or you could spend it on a engine management system such as a a Haltech, injectors and fuel pump upgrade. Unless I was competitive race team, had money to burn and do it all or hell bent on a monster normally aspirated engine I know which I'd choose to spend the money on. If my livelyhood was dependent on racing 8 and 9 sec hondas with 600-700+ hp I'd buy a shelf full while they still only cost $2400. I read where Brent Rua said he spent $10K just in transmissions last race season so a couple of $2400 blocks to a racer with a few sponsors may be no big deal.

K, just a question. Where in the world would we get a tranny for this block? I've heard that new neon srt tranny won't bolt on to our cars, but it is much more robust than our current trannies. would it be possible to eventually combine the block and that tranny? I can't think of any other options here.

Well, first off, the 200 mph mark will be broken very soon! The drag Celica ran 199.7 mph or something very close to that. But, I am just 16 y/o. When I say I want something, I dont let anything stand in my way, I go out and get it. I have hardly done anything to my car so far, but this interests me greatly! Everyone is assuming that just because u can run 50 psi that you have to! Just because you can achieve 1500 hp doesnt mean you have too! I would buy this block just for the raw HP gain. A 3L engine i would assume would be putting out a ish load of HP, at least more than 140 and when you have the 2.0L engine it is 1L gain. I would rather have that 1L then .6L and have all the stregnthend parts then just a 2.4L. If you think about it. the $2400 plus the bottom end kit is about equivalent to someone just wanting to buy a HRC stage 2 and do the bottom end rebuild first. Plus you would have the bragging rights of being one of the only people in the world with a 3L eclipse. I dont know about anyone else, but I might give up my Turbo plans for this, If it ends up working out. I know im just 16 and most people wont take me seriously, but that is their perogative.

I understand where Stan is coming from here. Like Stan said we can't even get more than 10 or so people to bring their cars and race at the damn shootout, and there are only a handful of 12 sec turboed 2GNTs out there (who IS running 12's anyway???) so the large scale interest for SERIOUS engine/modding work isn't out there right now, or at least not yet. Wheter it will or not is anyone's guess, but since 85% of all 2Gs have 420As that means the Potential market is bigger than the 4g63 market (if people start modding 2GNTs more and more in the future).

And like I had said, a shop a race team of some kind or someone who is really dedicated will buy them, but I doubt you'll sell many to the average guy modding his car, even the ones with some cash (and most don't have too much unless mom and dad are sponsoring their hobby).

If you can make some for the shops/dedicated serious racers and charge enough to make limited production profitable then it will be worth it.

The engine even might help to get you publicity as the shop that builds the super 420A engines, and that could help you get more business in the door, but I can't be sure if it would be more than enough to offset the development and production costs and the limited profit from low production numbers.

...For $1000 I could buy a 2K Eclipse motor and drop it into my car and spend the rest of the 1400 on the mounts and "conversion process". Now it wouldn't support the insane HP but really I don't have much need for more than 700HP on the street and if I did I would just drop in some NOS. A good 200 shot would make 900 which is only 150 per cylinder, the same as a Len's Neon on 4 cylinders at 600HP. With enough fuel I'm sure that 2.4L is more than enough engine, especially when the 2L's have a problem with wheel spin and 15lbs. Anyway I'd do the Mitsu 3L when I want more NA power. I was also getting the idea that this block is totally bare which is fine but I consider myself a budget racer and in finding HP an easier way. A built 3L wouldn't costs more than 2400 itself. So the only benefit I see is the all aluminum aspect like dino was talking about. Weight distribution would be pretty, but then again I was a suspension man before anything and are in the 1G cornering status right now so I just couldn't see justifying over 2G's for a spectacular block.

If I were rich then you could just throw away my whole post :)

> Not for a typical street
>driven car anyway. It makes no sense when $500 pistons and
>$700 rods can support upwards of 600hp. $2400 can buy alot
>of shit towards reaching that 500+ hp.

The block can be used as a stock replacement, with stock internals. The aluminum weight will balance the car. I can see where an AutoXer may order only a block and paint it. It opens up a lot of options. And some people may want to build a high horsepower NA car, and this block will allow of big displacements.

If i had the money, In a heartbeat. Well, 1/2 a heartbeat actually.

I'm really interested when i get the money. The point people are missing is this. YOU DON"T HAVE TO HAVE A 1500 HP giant. Infact, i bet noone would even want that much. We are all street users as far as majority goes, and it can be used in many ways. I suggest you make a "cheaper" version of this engine. It doesn't need to take 1500hp, maybe like 900. That would give EVERYONE more than enough room to do what they want, and as for the draggers, they can special order their engines. Also, as mentioned, the bottem end kit would be nice. 3L is a huge hit for me as well, i wanna hear it ;). Tell us when you start developement, and ask us questions!

just for the block $2,400, maybe if you had a kit with Clevite 77 Rod Bearing Set, Clevite 77 Main Bearing Set, Total Seal Piston Rings, All Mopar gaskets and Seals, Melling Oil Pump, Eagle Specialty Forged Rods, JE Pistons in your choice of 8.6, 10.5 or 12.5 compression, then that would be a another story if you give us a deal for like for like $3,200 with core then I would try to save money to get, so let us know if you could give us a deal with that kit. and the price.
and how much horsepower would it give me if I got the 12.5 compression, how much horsepower at the engine around?

50 psi!!!!! GOOD GOT-TOE MIGHTY!!!!!!!

no....he said 60+ :)))))

maybe if you had a kit with Clevite 77 Rod Bearing Set, Clevite 77 Main Bearing Set, Total Seal Piston Rings, All Mopar gaskets and Seals, Melling Oil Pump, Eagle Specialty Forged Rods, JE Pistons in your choice of 8.6, 10.5 or 12.5 compression, then that would be a another story if you give us a deal for like for like $3,200 with core then I would try to save money to get, so let us know if you could give us a deal with that kit. and the price.
and how much horsepower would it give me if I got the 12.5 compression, how much horsepower at the engine around?

does anyone think this is a good idea?

yes i think it would be a good idea. but i think everyone would like to see the hp numbers of the combo packages. I wouldent pay 2400 for just a stock aluminum replacement block. if they made the packages they could go places w/it. I would certainly look into buying a package.

Think about all the torque a 3.0L block would make!! :) It sounds like a good idea.

would anyone have any idea about the horsepower that this block will give out with 12.5 comp.?

...and based on our stock cylinder with the extra ~17.8% engine would be at about 185.4HP. We're talking bone stock with only compression. Of coarse compression works differenty then any other mod. It increases total engine power so every time you add a mod you must take the 4%/point of compression and add it to the engine WITH the mod's power in mind.

185HP 3.0L 4 banger..... I LOVE IT. Think about all of the people that are gonna call bs until you race them!

would anyone know the horsepower of the 3.0 with the 12.5 comp.?
but the idea of a 2.4 with the 12.5 comp it's not bad for 185 horsepower.

...would be an increase of ~67% so you would be looking at ~263HP NA but one would really need the bore and stroke of a motor like that to be more accurate. I imagine that the stroke would be so high that the redline would be 6K if the bore remained the same. That means power would drop too, something along the lines of 240 or so, because of such low efficiency. Still that's a nice number but I'm almost there with my 2.4L and less money. Of coarse with a turbo, high rpm breathing isn't a factor either so the low redline would even be worth it. At sea level with the 3L making that much power and 10 pounds of boost you would be looking at over 350HP with a boost friendly compression ratio. Then again I made more than that at the wheels with my little 2.4L and boost. The question is: Is that really worth it. We're still talking 2400 for a bare block.

build it...and they will come


95 Eclipse RS : 5 speed
Gude cams : test pipe : AFX UDP : ram air : Thrush glasspack : Dual air horns : Kenwood KDC 5000 : AutoCommand remote start
incomming - lower strut bars

OK damnit.... I can't leave this post alone. Since the 6g72/3 is too much of a hassel, then just buy these damnit. Gary? what happened to these?

if i remember he needed 10 people to put down cash for them..
(he never got 10)
Bill

it seems like on the old boards on howell, he had like 5 and a bunch that wanted to really bad...

that sounds about right i remember it was about half of the needed people back in the day...

Bill

Didn't he need the 10 people, just to get the machine work done? get it prototyped and ready for production. It seems like they said they'd have a prototype in december back then....

Hmmmm....did he ever decide to come up with any sort of a package deal too? If my car was going to be full race then i would spend the money for this. I just spent close to 3k on friggin seats. I would love to see someone on this board get one and push it to its very limits....and then take it to the shootout and stomp the hell out of most of the cars there.

this would have been much better for people before 2.4 swaps came into fact now witha 2.4 it makes it not as great as when there were only 2.0's

a 2.4 can do so much that the extra cash is not worth it i guess for most people although i really want a 3.0 block....

Bill

bill, stop resurrecting the old posts! :P I still want this to come out...:( Just let them rest in their grave...

haha! it wasn't bill....yes, 'twas me. heh. damnit gary make one already. or quit lying and tell us the truth about hrc being about to run such fast times....}(

I would 100% for sure pick one up after some testing. i do not bullshit on front street! :thumbsup

yeah gary yeah! etx and i wanna prototype test! we be the test dummies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please? ;(

this will....not....die...

I would very much be intersted in seeing the numbers and possible combo packages say from Mild to wild. Give us something to go with? Bare bnes is just that. Most of the 2GNT'ers around wat "simple" mods. Things that we know will work if we are going to raid our college funds or stay home for months on end while we pay off the mod. So please sir, talk to the big man about some package possibilites?
I would be interested most definately under those circumstances.
Carl

i think a lot of this is just lust. but if its custom made, noone needs to modify shit like for the 2.4 - is anyone else still wanting one of these? i want to fucking know.