Ok, this is completely crazy! I'm not sure EXACTLY what happened b/c its my daughter's car and she was driving (and the way she describes what happens, well, she just doesn't know cars that well so I have no idea what most of her descriptions mean) Anywho, she said the car *seemed* like it was going faster than what the speedo said (she said the speedo said 70 but felt like she was goin 85 ) and a couple of times while driving it, the RPM's *SEEMED* to go from 2k to 3k but just for a second....and that happened about three times over a 20 min period So, she pulled over and when she did, the oil light came on and she IMMEDIATELY shut off the car.

Ok, so I go to pick her up and check it out. I opened up the hood and saw oil everywhere. I checked the oil level and it didn't have any. So, I put in a qt and started it up. It started up ok but the idle went up to about maybe 1.5 and came back down to 900 but seemed ok. I backed up the car a little and looked under the car and saw a puddle of oil. Shut the car right back off; checked the oil and nothing was on the stick so I towed it home.

Today I put 2qts of oil in it, and the level was full (which makes no sense since it takes 4.7 qts) I then cleaned up the rear of the engine where there was oil EVERYWHERE also! Even down the exhaust all the way towards the back. There was soooo much oil I felt around the block for a hole. Got it all clean and started the car up and nothing. No oil leaking from anywhere. It smoked like crazy b/c of the oil that originally fell on the exhaust and also the brake cleaner I used on it to get the engine clean, but no oil. That makes no sense! How could I dump a qt with the engine runnin for just 10 seconds.....but not while the engine was running for about 10 min! I looked up top and everywhere (of course, I crawled under the car and looked at the back of the motor)

HOWEVER, when I revved the engine, I started to see smoke coming out of the hood. Below is a pic of the engine:



Now, I know that that 90 degree elbow piece is supposed to go where the green line is BUT that 90 degree elbow piece was actually laying down on the back side of the engine. Could oil have came out of it (since it wasn't attached to anything) and have dumped oil everywhere? Or, could it have been from where the blue line is? There in no hose there so there is a slight space between there and when I revved the engine, oil came out at that location.

I have since hooked up that 90 degree piece like it should be (like the green line shows) and, of course, that other hose is gone. I actually cut it to put a piece of hose back where the blue line is so its connected like it should be as well. Does anyone know why someone would have hooked up those hoses that way in the first place??? It doesn't make any sense. So, could that be where the oil shot from? The only thing about that happening though is I've had the car for 3 weeks now and none of this happened till last night. I guess it coulda been leaking all along, but it still doesn't explain the puddle of oil under the car the night it first happened. I'm COMPLETELY lost. To add to the issue, I drove the car just around the neighborhood, MAYBE about 1 mile if that...and it started running bad, like a miss and white smoke came out the rear. I thought it might be a head gasket issue, but the oil looks fine (not milky) and so does the coolant! This is just crazy. Could it possibly be the oil pump????

Sorry this post is soooooo long, I just wanted to give as much info as I could :D

Thanks for any help!

If anything, you should only get an oil mist from the two vents on the valve cover. Oil is splashing around on the valvetrain and can get caught up in whatever blow-by gases are venting from the valve cover. It should not have the ability to dump large volumes of oil. Sometimes leaks can be dependent on oil temperature (actually viscosity) and pressure. Oil viscosity will be reduced as the engine warms up and leaks can increase in flow. Pressure will increase with engine RPM (until you reach the relief set-point). Sometimes, leaks will not appear until a certain pressure is reached. Sometimes, you need hot oil AND high pressure to create a leak. I once had a rear main seal leak that required a fully warmed up engine and moderate pressure. It would not leak while idling, only while driving. I finally had to put the car on jack stands, let the engine warm up, and penny to hold the throttle open to get 2-3k RPM. After ten minutes at that RPM, I finally got a few drips. I didn't hang out under the car the whole time (for safety's sake). I just slipped under to check every few minutes. If you didn't already do this, it should be worth a shot.

Corbin
'95 ESI-T

Now with more power and fewer leaks



Humble servant of the Wiki

Corbin,

Wow man! Thanks a lot for the detailed info! Once the engine got warm (temp gauge in the middle) I did kick it up to 3k for about 2-3 min but maybe that wasn't enough time to create enough pressure. When I did this though, smoke started coming up from the engine compartment and I noticed it at the pic above at the blue line (just sputtering out of it though) and I assumed that's where the leak was coming from. I tried to drive it around my subdivision but it REALLY ran like crap, sputtering and missing. I guess I'll do a compression check just for the heck of it. The idle has always kinda been flakey anyway so maybe its just bad plugs/wires/or the coil.

She said as soon as she pulled over the oil light came on; once I put oil in the car, the light is no longer on. Is that light just for level, or is it also for pressure as well? If not, I need to install an aftermarket pressure guage (which I will do anyway but would like to know if the light also reads if there is pressure)

I do have a laptop and a OBDII cable for my other car. Is there any software out there that I can use with my laptop for this 95 GS? I'm not gonna be doing any mods so I don't need a program to reprogram the PCM or anything; I just wana be able to verify coolant temp, oil pressure, and air/fuel mixture.

Thanks a lot!!! :)

Wow.

You said that you got the PCV hooked back up to the correct location, and hooked up the air intake to the port on the valve cover. When the engine is running are there puffs of air coming from the dipstick? If so, could be excessive blow-by.

I had a similar situation on my old Talon, but the valve cover gasket somehow blew out in the back (no idea why!) and I was dumping oil very fast. Is that clean and sealed?

I hate being this person, but there is that UV dye that can be used for pin pointing the leak origin. I've seen it before, pretty neat stuff.

**UPDATE** Well, just for the heck of it, I pulled out two of the plugs to check them out b/c the car is running like COMPLETE crap right now...I pulled #1 right by the oil cap and #4 at the far right hand side and BOTH had oil in the wells. (haven't pulled the other 2 yet) I'm guessin this is my issue? :dunno: Maybe a cracked intake? Could it have all leaked out from there somehow?? Course, that wouldn't explain the white smoke would it??

Thanks again! :D

Valve cover gasket leak. Common issue.

Ditto. Oil in the spark plug wells is normally because of a leaking valve cover gasket:
Replacing valve cover and spark plug gaskets

If you get enough oil in the wells for a long enough period, it can seep into the boots and short out the spark plug wire (causing a miss). You should probably change the valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, and wires. But, you still have a massive oil leak elsewhere, so there is more detective work to be done.

The oil light is triggered by a pressure switch only. It does not read the level. However, if your oil level is really low, it can affect the pressure.

If you have an OBDII cable that connects to the serial port of your laptop, you may be able to use this program:
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/obd/obdtool.zip

I have used it with other manufacturers cables. If it doesn't work, you could buy a cable and software license from www.obd-2.com. Having an OBDII datalogger has been a godsend on many occasions.

Corbin
'95 ESI-T

Now with more power and fewer leaks



Humble servant of the Wiki

Ok, we probably have a cause and effect situation here (run with no oil because of a problem or run with no oil caused a problem). What caused what and what affected what BEFORE you got to where you are right now. But that doesn't matter at this point, let's just go from here.

You were right when you said do a comp check. I suspect that it will answer some questions immediately.

As for the oil addition; the amounts bringing you up to full make sense. You read nothing on the dipstick originally. You ended up dumping three total quarts in to bring her up to full. So you had 1.7 quarts still within the system and below the level of the bottom of the stick. Makes sense.

And if the conditions are correct (bottom end pressurized by blow-by with a PCV valve stuck open) you can see quite a bit of oil come out of that hole. Also keep in mind that (now I'm not being sexist here) some women are notorious for never checking their oil. So we don't really know how much was in it prior to her having problems. If you ever saw a turbo car that had a dipstick pop up, you would be amazed at the amount of oil that could be all over the engine.

In additon, that oil that is in the spark plug wells (which is probably from the valve cover seals) could be causing misfires as well. You need to get the car on a strong base and then you may find that there are no problems, just normal maintenance (and simple fixes) that needed to be done.

But before you do any of that, do a comp check to see where we are.

Thanks for ALL the help guys! I REALLY appreciate it and this forum! :) I replaced the valve cover gasket and spark plug gaskets as well. I followed the guide posted above, plus I put a very light bead of silicone on the head to help seal the valve cover to it. I still think I may have an issue with the valve cover itself though as it was torqued down pretty well and I probably have some hairline cracks in it that I can't really see. However, right now, all I can do is the gaskets and see what happens. I put in new wires/plugs as well. I just need to get the car running and I know if I order a valve cover, it'll take a few days to get here. If I do end up getting one, I'll just buy the gasket kit again and redo it all.

The reason I got this car though, was because it was VERY cheap; only $800 and I expected there to be some issues with the car, that's a given. However, from reading and searching A LOT of threads, it seems that these cars aren't very dependable and I'm just wondering if that's true. Please don't get me wrong, I'm DEFINITELY not slamming the car or anything but I'm just wondering how much truth there is to that. I also have a '01 Vette and we kid the C4 guys A LOT on the forum and joke about the cars not being dependable, however, they are very dependable (IF maintained properly)and I'm just wonderin if the same kind of ribbing is going on here. Heck, there's even one guy here who has a sig that says somethin like "Owning a DSM is great....the 3 days out of the month its running" or somethin like that. :D

Thanks again everyone! :)

Originally posted by at88mph
Thanks for ALL the help guys! I REALLY appreciate it and this forum! :) I replaced the valve cover gasket and spark plug gaskets as well. I followed the guide posted above, plus I put a very light bead of silicone on the head to help seal the valve cover to it. I still think I may have an issue with the valve cover itself though as it was torqued down pretty well and I probably have some hairline cracks in it that I can't really see.

In my experience it's the bolts that break before you can crack the VC. As long as you have the rubber donuts and the proper washers you shouldn't be able to crack the VC.

That being said, I have seen a cracked VC but it was jury rigged with higher strength bolts and oversized washers. Not a good idea.

Let us know what happens with the comp tests. Make sure to do it dry and then wet

Originally posted by RoninEclipse2G Let us know what happens with the comp tests.

Compression tests results as follows:

Cylinder 1: 195 :) 2: 0 :( 3: 195 :) 4: 210 :D


Now, I'm kinda new to 'engine work' so to speak. I've done lots of engine swaps and tranny swaps/conversions...but not really anything major internally on an engine. Taking into account the MASSIVE (and by saying massive, I'm actually being kind! James Bond would be proud!) amount of white smoke that the head gasket is definitely blown, but other than a bad head gasket, what other damage could I have to give me 0 compression on #2 or is it pretty much only a head gasket?

Also, since I apparently have a bad head gasket, what could have caused this? I thought usually a head gasket only goes if you over heat the engine....and the temp gauge stays right in the middle (of course, its completely down when it cools off, but never goes above the middle) Could the gauge be reading wrong or something?

I'm going to send the car to a shop to replace the head gasket as I definitely want to make sure its done right. Once I get it back together, I'm going to install a pod or pillar that actually has a true temp gauge and also a oil pressure gauge.


Thanks again everyone! :)

Originally posted by at88mph
what other damage could I have to give me 0 compression on #2 or is it pretty much only a head gasket? Also, since I apparently have a bad head gasket, what could have caused this?

Rings, ring lands. Valves not seating properly.

I'd say definitely have the head checked to see if it is flat.

I purchased my Eclipse for $350 because of a blown headgasket due to overheating. The head needed to be machined, and while I was at it I had a valve job done, but that was just extra insurance for when it's running again.

For me the machining of the head was $60, but with the valve job it was $130 (but I also removed everything from the head reducing my cost). Some shops will charge you more for dis-assembly and re-assembly.

Originally posted by 95_ESi_Person Rings, ring lands. Valves not seating properly. I'd say definitely have the head checked to see if it is flat. I purchased my Eclipse for $350 because of a blown headgasket due to overheating.

Thanks for the reply! :) Yep, having the head checked is what I'm gonna do next. I noticed you said you got one with a blown headgasket due to overheating. I'm just wondering what could have caused this to happen as the car wasn't overheated. Either that, or the gauge is way off. I'll DEFINITELY be putting other gauges in there, but I can't for the life of me figure out how the head gasket blew.

Ohh, I forgot to mention, when I pulled out the plugs to do the compression check, all the wells were dry and clean. The plugs however, were covered in black carbon and I just replaced them yesterday. On the number 4 cylinder (which read 210) however, there was oil on the bottom of the plug...now I'm not sure whether that could be residual oil that originally fell down the cylinder from when it was full of oil or could be a bad ring, but I'm assuming that's why I had a higher number on #4.

BTW, IF the temp gauge is correct (when I start it, its at the very bottom and gradually goes to the middle but no higher) then why isn't the car overheating since it has a blown head gasket??? I mean, its gotta be a bad leak if I have 0 compression and MASSIVE amount of white smoke out the back. Could it be that's where my problem really came from??? The car is actually overheating, but the gauge is broke?


Thanks! :)

Originally posted by at88mph
BTW, IF the temp gauge is correct (when I start it, its at the very bottom and gradually goes to the middle but no higher) then why isn't the car overheating since it has a blown head gasket??? I mean, its gotta be a bad leak if I have 0 compression and MASSIVE amount of white smoke out the back. Could it be that's where my problem really came from??? The car is actually overheating, but the gauge is broke? Thanks! :)

How is your coolant level? It could take a while to run low enough to cause it to overheat. The car I purchased had several things wrong with it... less than 1/2 gallon of burnt rusty coolant came out, running low enough on coolant finally did this one in (good for me though!).

Originally posted by at88mph
I can't for the life of me figure out how the head gasket blew.

They just do sometimes. The original factory graphite HGs are known for giving up the ghost after 100k+. Switching to a MLS HG takes care of the issue. I haven't been able to kill one of those.

Did you do a wet compression test after you recorded those numbers? That will narrow down your search and possibly eliminate the rings as your culprit

A leakdown test will help you figure out whether you actually have a blown HG, ring problem, or valve problem. You can do a basic leak-down test by taking a cheap compression tester (with gauge connected by quick disconnect), removing the schrader valve from the threaded end, and connecting the gauge end of the hose to an air compressor. That lets you force compressed air into a specific cylinder. Make sure the cylinder is at top dead center by putting a long screwdriver down the spark plug well and touching the top of the piston. You can turn the engine over with a wrench on the crankshaft bolt or cam bolt. Keep turning clockwise until you get the piston as high as it will go. Use the compression test hose to feed compressed air into the cylinder. Listen for where the leak is. Dipstick = ring land, coolant cap = head gasket, muffler = exhaust valve, and throttle body = intake valve. You might get a little noise at all places, but listen for the loudest leak. If you are suspicious, you can turn the engine a couple degrees to see if something seals better.

Corbin
'95 ESI-T

Now with more power and fewer leaks



Humble servant of the Wiki

Hey man,

our cars can be very reliable, espeicially if you are only talking about N/A stock trim. Like any car, if it is taken care of it will take care of you. You can't forget, these cars are now 10-15 years old and you have no idea who the previous owner was or how well he or she took care of the car. Based on the fact that your eclipse had both the PCV line and breather line connected to nothing leads me to believe that the previous owner of your car probably did not know what he or she was doing nor did they care.

The 420A is a great motor and is very resilient. It can take a good bit of abuse and if taken care of can certainly be reliable.

Good luck!

Was the oil on the spark plug insulator or on the electrode? It could also be a valve stem seal, which are a lot less fun to change. the easiest way to find a leak is a clean engine, a couple cans of de-greaser and a pressure washer could do wonders. And the 3 days out of the month comment, the owner probably has a 4g63, i love dsms but the 2g turbo models are a pain in the ass.