ok without going turbo, how much power can we get out of the 2.0 liter? without the usual mods(udp, cai, exhaust), what other things can be done, and what are the gains/cost? i want to go turbo, but it seems like the easy way out, i kinda want to have power while remaining n/a.
any ideas?

thank,
thomas

You can get....
1. cam gears
2. cams
3. venom intake manifold or bored stock manifold
4. bored throttle body
5. higher compression pistons
6. intake,headers,exhaust,pulley
All of this should make you pretty damn fast. I dont know the exact HP but I would guess around 160hp to the wheels (I might be wrong, just a guess). But it would cost more than the turbo.

DAVE_FL
97GS
AEM CAI
AFX PULLEY
AFX solid motor mount
Magnaflow exhaust
Sparkco 9mm wires
Eibach Pro Kit
tokico shocks
Altezzas
A Badass sound system
Indiglows,neons,and all that good stuff...hehe

I wounldn't waste my money on upgrading a n/t 420a. I have a 98 gs with an hrc kit. I put cams, pulley, intake, exhaust, plugs and plug wires. I barely felt a difference. The 420a's are a peice of sh it engines n/t.

no they arent take the turbo off the 4g63 and what do u have ? an engine that is basically the same but with much less tq!! an thats the bottom line !


oRACLe
nGk Plugs ( watch out now )
AeM ShoRt RaM
UnOrThAdOx RaCiNg PuLLeY
BrAnD SpAnKiNg NeW TrAnnY ( 110 miles )
MoDDed EUrO TaIlS
SToCk 14" Rims ( gotta have these )
StOck MuffLer ( rust included )

Lets see a pic of your set-up. Why would you mod your car if its a piece of shit?


ICQ #2199879
AOL - EvuLFleA
stillk@geocites.com

As soon as I get a scanner I'll post my car.

When I started moding my car I thought simple bolt-ons could do the trick. But I was wrong. On a inline 4 its pretty hard increasing hp @ the wheels. I first started with aem cams then ur pulley, aem intake and custom made exhaust system. I felt a differece but nothing to brag about. Then I researched for a turbo and found a kit. I installed it and that was something to brag about. I had stage 1 running 5psi it was alright. So i bought an stage upgrade which is an intercooler. Running 9psi. I readjusted the wastegate to get 10psi. With the other mods i had first with the turbo packed quite a punch. I didn't mean to down the 420a but simple bolts vs. turbo kit. The more cost effective way is the turbo.

Stop Buying cheap parts and I am sure you will feel a difference. :P

99_GS
ICQ# 40424747

Cheap parts?

I have UR pulley $205., AEM cams $160. each, Custom Exhaust made for my car $675., hrc 2 kit $3000., je pistons $500., crower rods $700.

All i was saying is that if you want noticeable power just get a turbo kit. Because just simple bolt-ons on an inline 4 you'll barley notice. 420a with a kit has potential. Simple bolt-ons doesn't. LIke he said he wants to go fast. I've looked at the options and cost. The most cost effective way is turbo. I know most people would agree.

DarkEclipseRS97 http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1574635&a=11969799&p=43081885&Sequence=6&res=high http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1574635&a=11969799&p=47132928&Sequence=0&res=high who the hell is this guy????!

look guys, if you think YOUR car is a peice of shit, sell the f***er. damn, i love mine. its not the fastest car in the world, hell who are we kidding, without putting the extra money into them, the 2.0 liter is NOT fast. i just want to know what the potential for these engines is. i know about all the bolt ons, pulleys, intakes, exhaust....blah blah blah. ive done that. im not by any means complaing about my car, but im trying to do some research on internal mods like head work, pistons, etc. if all you wanna do is dog on our cars, dont waste your f***ing time, or ours.

thomas

yeah, teatinger said da shit right there, so stop yo bitchin, 420a rulezzzzz! hahaha

Get a turbo and you will see some true power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DAVE_FL
97GS
AEM CAI
AFX PULLEY
AFX solid motor mount
Magnaflow exhaust
Sparkco 9mm wires
Eibach Pro Kit
tokico shocks
Altezzas
A Badass sound system
Indiglows,neons,and all that good stuff...hehe

LAST EDITED ON 28-Apr-01 AT 00:02 AM (PST)

Quoting 'dsmopar':
--------
" cams, pulley, intake, exhaust, plugs and plug wires. I barely felt a difference. The 420a's are a peice of sh it engines n/t. "
--------
End Quote

My Take:

For all the people out there with the riceboy-honda mentality that think that "Spark Plug Wires", "Intake" & "Exhaust" is considered under the SERIOUS HP MODS, please think again.

First an Exhaust all alone on a NA 420A DSM will do just about nothing. You need to help it at least by getting an intake.

The best Spark Plugs, and Spark plug wires in the world will not add more than 1hp if at all.... All you essentially do, is ensure a cleaner spark.

A good open Element air filter will give you a good improvement/$, and actucally shows some HP improvement from 3-8?
The reason for this is that the 420A engine was quite "noisy" acording to Chrysler Engineers, so they quieted it down by giving it a more restrictive air box. And, yes, you can hear an engine "roar" through the intake....

If you want to make some "serious" hp while NA then here are a few things you can do, apart from those mentioned above:

Intake:
Get a manderel bent intake pipe
Port the Throttle Body
Port the Intake manifold
OPTION B: you can skip all of the above and go with quad-throttle bodies, but that costs about $3500+ and is not streetable!

Head Work:
Port the Head (flow all the ports equally)
Gasket Match to manifolds
Install Better valves (not sure if bigger valves would help though)
Get a 3/5 anngle Valve job
Get the Better Valve Springs (Mopar Racing, CNNP...)
Get Titanium Retainers for the springs
Get New design Lifters and Rocker Arms (these don't add hp, but they ensure that you can rev the car up to higher rpm safely, and repeatedly)
Remove casting flash and deburr (remove excess pieces of metal that may affect oil flow, or air flow in the head. This service is usually included with porting though)
Plus a bunch of other little tricks that most engine shops offer...

Exhaust:
Get a header. 4->1 for high speed power, and a 4->2->1 for low end torque (personally, I prefer the idea of 4-2-1)
Get a 3" cat-back manderel bent exhaust to a turbo muffler (i.e. high flow)
A high flow exhaust with a 4-2-1 header is pretty much ideal IMO.

Fuel:
Get an AFC, and tune that sucker well! The stock fuel pump should do, as long as you haven't changed compression of pistons yet...
Also get gauges to help you monitor your mods.. you'll need an EGT gauge and a 02 Sensor voltage gauge.

Ignition:
NOW is when Spark plugs and wires help... Help burn all that extra air better!
An ignition controller may be useful here, but most people say that our cars have good computer-controlled timing stock...

You get the idea...

BTW just in case you are curious, ALL of the mods that I have listed abouve will add up to about $3K... which is quite a bit, and the price of a Turbo kit, however the difference with modifying here, is that you can do it step by step.

See what I'm getting at? Its the COMBINATION of mods that add power....

So what Else?
Well I was just getting started! Now if you are dead set on being freakishly fast, you will consider lightened flwheels, ligtened crank, cams, Higher compression pistons (11:1 ?)

Also don't forget that just about ALL the mods described above can only HELP when (and if) you ever decide to go Turbo!

********DISCLAIMER***********
All the above is my opinion (do whatever you want with the info, it's your responsibility), and yes I may have forgotten some mods, but that just goes to show how MUCH stuff you can do!
********DISCLAIMER***********

Peace!

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

http://members.home.net/xtatdsm



well said RS_guy

I have done most of the stuff he talked about. (all the bolt ones, porting everything, milling the head with 3/5 valve job, 2.5 test pipe-back, AFC, plugs wires and all. all what I have not done is cams (well I had some regrinds a year or 2 ago but sold them to smog my car) I also don't have cam gears, valve springs or SS over sized valves yet.

doing all that, my car feels faster than b4 but I am sure any turbo charged 420A running only 5 psi would easily whoop on me.

I think I have spent $1500 plus on just bolt ons, and around 1K on all head, intake manifold, TB porting that's with no labor. so that adds up to atleast $2500. and as we know for that much of money you can get a turbo kit which will make your car way faster than doing what I have done.

so why I am still staying NA, umm I just wanna be different, I know I will not be any faster than others with turbo kit, but I am planning to have one of the fastest NA 420 out there, that would happen any soon tho but I am working on it.

Adel

For anyone that hasn't been to www.gude.com take a look. They have cams, cam gears, ported and polished cylinder heads, throttle bodies......They even have a racing package that includes all of this and headers. The last price quote that i received from them wasn't that bad. So if you don't want the turbo here's an option.

thanks to all who have taken the time to post genuine helpfull info. im still not sold on staying n/a though. i may do all the above mentioned internal mods and then go turbo later, i just wanna go fast dammit!!!!

thanks again guys,

thomas

Hey i didn't mean to down the 420a. It's just you'll spend alot of money on simple bolt-ons when you can get a turbo kit and run 5psi and run 14's in the 1/4. You'll need alot of bolt-ons to run that non-turbo.
Like i said i first had AEM cams, UR pulley, AEM intake, custom made exhaust system, Ractive wires. I felt a difference but nothing to brag about.
I recently put convexed forged je pistons, billet crower rods and run 10psi. I haven't went to the track yet but I'll tell you what I run when I do.
420a with a turbo has lots of potential.

I think I understand where you are coming from and what you mean. I think the statement should have been mor ein the lines of any 2.0l 4-cylinder motor will have a difficult time making extreme amounts of time making serious power without forced induction. Sound correct?

I can say this - I honestly beleive when not going turbo, the no replacement for displacement holds true, short of building a stripped down high revving hihgh compression barely streetable setup. With that being said, if I were to honestly try to make power NA, I would look into the 2.4l stroker conversion Skrilla has brought up many times. When you do this, you can have all the tricks done at the same time and I think someone could build a 13sec car doing it this way.

Another point - people focus a lot of energy on ultimate hp when the true fun in a car is in the suspension setup and handling. There is a lot that you can do here which would allow you to take on a lot of higher horsepower cars on twisty roads and show your tailights. A perfect example I can think of was two years ago on one of our drives in the mountains a well setup VR6 Corrado decided to tag along. For all the power some of our guys were making - turbo awd cars - they could not hang with this Corrado. The dude driving it was just too damn good and spent his money on suspension. Of course, he has traded it in for a 95 GSX and is building a whole new can of whoopass :)


MuRiX
97 Eclipse GS HRC Stage II
And a whole lot of other mods...
89 Accord LSi - yes it's mine :(
http://murix.home.icq.com/index.html

Thanks,

Yup, I also realized that All-Motor mods do sot as much as a Turbo Kit... That's why I'm Turbo!!!!!!

The problem is getting all the money together at ONCE to buy a Turbo kit... you really can't do it part by part like all motor stuff...

But, honestly, a part of me STILL whishes I went all-motor because of the uniqueness of the whole thing...

Anyway, Good Luck Adel with your quest!

Guy
RS_Guy



I might actually be *driving* my car soon!
Its only been 6 LONG months...

Damn the waiting..... It Sucks!

what about swaping a crank from a 2.4 mit. engine?

It all basically comes down to what you want in life, and how much funding you have. I'm sure with the endless pot of gold someone can and someday will make a very fast(ie 11 sec or better) N/A. I mean with the block we have it is possible, just comes down to the money. If they can do it with Honduhs then it can be done with ours. Someone hit the powerball next time it gets big and go for the gusto. Anyone that wants to sit here and downgrade the engine/car needs to be happy they aren't pimping in a Yugo, but even though it isn't a damn Bonneville record holder it is the best looking car to ever hit the street in a normal humans price range.


AEM CAI
Pace Setter
Magnacore 8.5 MM Plug wires
EBC Green Stuff pads
Waiting on AEM Cam Gears to arrive