So here it is, most of you don't know me because I haven't been on 2gnt.com in a very long time. My name is Jeff, I'm the NT wiseman from tuners.com.....I'm also the guy that will do things that everyone else says it impossible.

So here is the topic, I want to know who has thought about AWDing there 420A. Now I know we all WISH we could, but has anyone come up with decent ideas for doing it? I have thought of one, whether or not it will work is another story, and someone else on this board had at one time the same idea. It involves the tranny from an Evo with an adapter plate. Weather or not this will work is another story. BTW, I would want my car to stay a 5 speed. I have heard scuddlebut about someone using a van drivetrain to do it. However it was auto. I'm talking daily driven. So what are your thoughts my extreme tuner friends?

Welp, that Evo driveline was my idea. I am also a NT wiseman. I also do things that make people scratch their heads. Yeah, I think that we would get along just fine. I think that if the front and rear suspensions were changed to the AWD versions, and an adaptor plate was made, along with a custom clutch, custom driveshaft, and 4 custom halfshafts, it could be done. I don't have the fundage for this project at this time, though, so it is just a pipe dream.
-=B-=

Well, A CAD drawing and a water-cut plate could be designed for relative low cost(less than 500). Shafts can be made by any local driveshaft shop for a relative low cost. So that leaves tranny, transfer case, and 2gAWD suspension. DSMtrader.com would probably help out quite a bit there. So my guess is about 2g's to get it done. Just a guess though.

Another issue would be input shaft length. With the adaptor plate, I would be afraid of putting the input shaft too far away from the flywheel, although I think that a custom clutch might be able to compensate for it. Lastly, it would be tough to make everything mate together with the correct alignment.
-=B-=

Tiugh, but possible. Anything is possible with enough money.

The fact is, the GSX rear suspension will bolt up to the back of our cars just fine from what i have seen and heard. The bolt holes are different, but still there on the RS/GS as far as i know. The "tunnel" for the driveshaft is there in some form, enough to be usable if you re-route the exhaust.

But that isn't the hard part. The trans would be the difficult part of it. Could you potentially make an EVO 4+ trans bolt up? I imagine so, with the right adapter plate and lots of cash. DO i think its feasable? No.. not really. In truth, i think RWD could be more easily done than AWD, and it's probably be a blast to drive.

RWD wouldn't really be that much fun to drive. I know of someone who has just this done. He has a welded VC (Viscous Coupling), and for daily drivability, he pulls the front halfshafts, leaving the tripods in the transmission and the other ends in the hubs, but omitting everything in the back. It is WAY too tail happy, in every way. I spoke to him about this recently, in fact. I really think that the transmission that we would want to use would be one of the latest Evo transmissions, as the motor is on the same side, with the same rotational direction. I don't think that it would be all that tough to do, it would just take some lining up to make it work.
-=B-=

I'm probably way off, but maybe this could give some ideas? http://www.vfaq.com/mods/Tranny-switchable.html

**scratches Head 2.4 turbo motor evo 7 tranny, and 2GNT in same sentance, do i hear autoX ?


this sound like a very fun project, im up for providing and helping witht he clutch who ever tries it get a clutch at cost..

and i can try and help to find a company to make adaptor plates for the trannies..

im thinking an hacked bellhousing...

that what we did with old GM trannyies just cut the bell housing and weld flange from one to the other..

Bill

*smirks how bout 2.6 litre 500hp AWD Esi talon hrmmmz that is a confusing sentance to a DsMer =))))**

editted for useless input.

If you're not helping, what ARE you doing?

>haha or u can buy a GSX....just my opinion.
I wish I had the ability to delete moronic posts....just my opinion!

Yeah, well.. *i* do ;-)

Again, it is my opinion that RWD would be an easier confiuration than AWD. Think 2.4L Jeep Liberty trans.

Okay, delete this if it's stupid, but wouldn't a Jeep Liberty transmission fall under the "truck" category? I used to have a 2.0l S-10 with just as much HP as my 2.0l Eclipse...and that bitch was slow as crap! I was told it was due to the transmission and what gearing it had.

So if we put a truck tranny on our cars wouldn't that defeat the purpose?

I think a rear wheel drive option would be great. Less moving parts and less weight overall. If you have the proper slicks and know how to drive, you can get just as good 60' times with rwd as awd. Afterall, aren't most pro-draggers rear wheel? Like buschar's.

what is our weight distrubution though? I would think our cars would be too front heavy for rwd and the purposes of autocrossing. I guess if it's well planned, with proper suspension to balance steering more towards neutral, it would be so much damn fun.

It'd be nice to be able to do real drifts. :7

If i remeber right, the 2.4L Liberty uses 4.10 or 4.11 geared rear end. I am not sure if it comes in strictly a RWD setup as some Jeeps do, but i know that it comes with a selectable transfer case in the 4WD models. And after all, an AWD DSM with a welded viscous is just 4WD...

Something for someone with too much time and money to consider, i guess.

hasn't RRE done fwd to awd conversions already? shouldn't the basics be about the same?

No, because they did a FWD to AWD swap on a 4g63 Spyder. They used a AWD 4g63 trans that bolts up, and a GSX/TSIAWD rear crossmember that takes a DSM rear diff.

What they did, while not simple, is much simpler than what we're talking about, as we have nothing that really fits.

this place will make our rs/gs into a allwheel drive car a freind of mine who lives nere them just got it done to his eclipe,when he gets it back i will ask him how it is.iam not sure how they do it but u guys can give them a call if u want heres the web site http://www.bmtranny.com/

It can be done with the right $ of course. There is a guy here in Tampa named Jerry that put a 4g63 and AWD drivetrain in his 2 door mirage and his running 11's with 400HP. And it's a daily driver.






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Car Sold


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

Since it seems like a few of you arn't reading correctly let me explain one more time. We don't have a 4G63, we have a 420A, therefore we can't use the 4G63 tranny. It's stated above that, "I know this guy who put a 4G63 motor and AWD tranny in his mirage...." SO WHAT!!! That's basically taking the whole drivetrain out of an eclipse/galant vr4 and sticking it in another car.It has ZERO, NADA, NO bearing are what I am trying to accomplish.

I'm not really an ass, but I can't stand usless posts in a real conversation. I'm looking for specs on tranny's. I'm looking experienced ideas. If you have those please share.

I'm looking for real ideas and this is an "Advanced Tuning" forum, so to be realitivly blunt, I don't really care if anyone knows a guy that has done......! Stick to the topic, AWDing a 420A. In fact, jus to be on the safe side, if your posts is going to contain ANYTHING to do with the 4G63 AWD (unless it is about the EVO tranny) please don't post. Thanx

This would be a lot easier if we had an AWD transmission that would readily bolt to the 420a. All we have is that stinkin' Caravan AWD setup that is vacuum actuated. No AWD in a drag race. Pffoey! That's alright, it would probably break at the first sign of any real power, anyways, so by the 60' mark, it would be a NWD (no wheel drive) vehicle. I still think that our best bet would be to take an AWD transmission from a transversely mounted motor, like the latest Evolutions. I think that the Getrag 6 from the 300GT would be neat, but we can't use that for the same reason that we can't use a transmission from a GSX, it would sit on the wrong side.
-=B-=

>Since it seems like a few of you arn't reading correctly let
>me explain one more time. We don't have a 4G63, we have a
>420A, therefore we can't use the 4G63 tranny.

No shit.



It's stated
>above that, "I know this guy who put a 4G63 motor and AWD
>tranny in his mirage...." SO WHAT!!! That's basically taking
>the whole drivetrain out of an eclipse/galant vr4 and sticking
>it in another car.It has ZERO, NADA, NO bearing are what I am
>trying to accomplish.


Ok, you find a tranny that will bolt up to the 420A that will bolt up the the rear end and driveshaft of a 2G AWD that you'll need. It cost Jerry $5000 or so to do the Mirage so I can imagine what fun your going to have making this work with a 420A since AWD was never even an option and on a platform that it was an option (4g63) it costs a few grand to make it work.






>
>I'm not really an ass, but I can't stand usless posts in a
>real conversation. I'm looking for specs on tranny's. I'm
>looking experienced ideas. If you have those please share.

Your looking to be the first because that's what you'll be. You'll find no other help than what you've been given because no everybody has a few grand to throw around and find out what's going to work. Just get slicks and strong axles and run fast times FWD.


>
>I'm looking for real ideas and this is an "Advanced Tuning"
>forum, so to be realitivly blunt, I don't really care if
>anyone knows a guy that has done......! Stick to the topic,
>AWDing a 420A.

Ok, figure out how to make the Caravan tranny work cause it's the ONLY tranny that will bolt up to the 420A easily and offer AWD. You can make an adapter plate as I have seen 4g63's in RWD applications with Toyota tranny's.



In fact, jus to be on the safe side, if your
>posts is going to contain ANYTHING to do with the 4G63 AWD
>(unless it is about the EVO tranny) please don't post. Thanx


oops I brought up the 4g63 a few times in my post, GET OVER IT.


>


________________________________________________________________________________________
Car Sold


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

Here's a pic of what you need.

http://www.geocities.com/piercedjd/tranny.html

The top 3 pics on that page are of a modified bellhousing that bolts up to a 4g63 and a toyota RWD tranny to be used in a Conquest.

Find a place that can modify the bellhousing from a 2gNT tranny to bolt up to a similar layout AWD tranny. I have a bellhousing from a 2gnt that has a hole in it that someone can have for the shipping costs if they want to try to figure something out. This bellhousing isn't usable unless you trust JB Weld like I did to seal my last tranny up. :thumbsup

I also have a Neon bellhousing that is fine and will bolt to the motor but the hole for the clutch is in a different spot so it won't work for this setup.



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Car Sold


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

Do us a favor and refrain from posting in this topic again. We all know there isn't a tranny that bolts up to the 420A that will make it AWD, and we already know we would have to modify a tranny to do so. You arn't telling us anything new. Please work on you post count in another topic!

:rolleyes

Ok, well if you know all that information, you know EVERYTHING THAT EVERYONE ELSE DOES. WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO SAY, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. THERE IS NO OTHER INFORMATION THAT CAN BE SAID IN THIS THREAD THAT IS GOING TO CHANGE UNLESS SOME COMPANY COMES OUT AND MAKES AN AWD TRANNY FOR THE 420A BECAUSE OF THIS THREAD.

I am one of the most helpful people on the board so don't talk shit to me about post counts and the like. I have been here since this board started and I've seen almost EVERY question asked and answered 20 times. Just because you just came on here isn't going to change anything about whats available for our cars. Call New Veture Gear our tranny maker and see what they can do for you. Here. http://www.newventuregear.com/

I even offered a bellhousing for someone to do research on but you seemed to overlook that.





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Car Sold


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

See, now that was helpful, thanx for the link...!

Not a problem, glad to be helpful. :)

I really don't mean to be such a dick, I am just stressed lately and it got to me.

I'll even man up and say I'm sorry.




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Car Sold


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

anyone know the average price of the late model evo trannies?

im guessing around 2g's

anyone got any ideas for any of the subaru trannies ? those seem to be pretty strong from my knowledge of them,

we could always start with rwd and then look for a good tranny to get the awd working,


this w58 toyota tranny whats it come out of is it any good?

Bill

Holds 500 HP stock. It's from a RWD Older Celica.




________________________________________________________________________________________
Car Sold


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

I know this maybe alittle off topic but I had the same idea about making my 420a AWD. Now I have my eyes on another idea I saw on here a few months ago about a 400hp eclipse with a evo engine in it. I thought that would be cool to do cause the evo engine is just a modifed 4g63T engine and its a Mitsubishi engine. I'm now tring to find a job for my new project which will be the evo 6.5 Tommi edition engine I like that engine and I don't think I would have to move a lot of electronics around cause the engine is like our 420a engines I'm tring to do jdm conversion on my eclipse, but for now I have to start rebuilding my engine for more boost and horsepower 7-8lbs I'm now use to and I feel like I need more power I'm still slow and my car still has its issues everynow and then, but how hard would my project be I could just put the engine in and get a gs-t tranny and be fwd but I wouldn't mind being rwd that would be intresting to see but awd is much funner to drive.

That was very off topic. Post a new thread if you want to do it, but it is still an engine swap so it is the same work as any engine swap.

I emailed the people at new venture gear about making an awd tranny similar to the nvt 350, they replied:

F.Y.I.,

Sincerely,

Ken Koliba
NVG Sales

-----Original Message-----
From: Perosky, Ed
Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2003 8:04 AM
To: Koliba, Kenneth; DeSantis, Mario
Subject: RE: aftermarket transmissions/transaxles


Ken,
The AWD conversion of an aftermarket vehicle will be difficult and probably
not worth the effort. This gentleman does not mention if a PTU is available
for the application. I think he assumes the AWD is done "in the
transmission". The PTU the drive shaft, the rear axle, the rear drive
module, etc. is a huge undertaking. How many of these 95-99 vehicles are
still on the road?


Ed P.

this is perhaps because I only asked about the transmission, but maybe if we can give some good information about how the swap would go, and a pretty accurate number of 95-99 talon esi/eclipse rs/gs's are on the road and looking forward to something like this, they might take a little more consideration. can anybody help me out with a little more information on how you guys would do the conversion if you had an awd tranny that was designed for the 420a?

id do it after the 2.4 is running right hell yea...

Joe - don't say funner, it's not a word. Being from Mississippi is no excuse for poor grammer. ;) Also, you can't have a JDM eclipse, because eclipses aren't from Japan, they're from America. If you do decide that you actually want to do that, come talk to me and I'll give you an idea of what will have to be involved. I think I'm going to try and trace the lineage of that AWD caravan transmission and see if I can find anything... I'll keep you posted. I would prefer to do this with a 5 speed if possible. The only thing that I can think of fun about an AWD automatic would be spraying it off the line }(

AWD caravan has been done on a show car, I'm looking for a manual tranny and front transfercase, the driveshaft and rear is the easy part.

I'm looking for a
>manual tranny and front transfercase,

I think New Venture could do it. There is an employee of NVG that posted on here about 6 months ago. I think his user name was NVG something. Emailing him might be a little easier since he had more of an idea of the layout of an eclipse when he had posted before. I'll see if I can find his user name.


*EDIT* Here's his profile. He's NVG_Guy on the board.

http://forums.2gnt.com/dcboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=101895






the driveshaft and rear
>is the easy part.

Exactly. ^^^^


________________________________________________________________________________________
Car Sold


http://hometown.aol.com/ohshootuhh/
www.Fast420A.com

last i heard of that memeber he was posting on neons.org trying to get an upgraded 5 speed tranny put out for the neon and 2gnt witha beefier gears and better gear ratios..

i never heard anything mroeif it never went through as far i know...

dont remember his member name either... ill look around for it,

anyways there no way NVG would do it not enough market...

Bill

mount the 420A and NV-T350 longitudinally like the silvia and take two AWD rear diffs. put one in front & one in rear. get a Quaife LSD for the NV-T350 and theres your center 50/50 diff. you would have to fab a new crossmember, oposite side TB mount intake, header & new shift, throttle, & clutch linkages. that alone is cheaper than getting a new EVO tranny, something like $5000 im sure - STi trannys are $11000(whered you get an EVO take-out?).

the only mechanical problem i can forsee (i know theres a billion, but stay in theory) is that the front AWD diff(from rear) would spin a different direction . you could have the driveshaft for the front turn two cogs & that would reverse and correct the spin???? if not a dana 44 would be a nice fit, but making cv boots....omg.

ive thought many a night about this....

probably the cheapest way out. not to mention the dopest & would naturally have to be AWD. otherwise the trans would be half used.

comments?

Ok i actually have a bare tub 1996 dodge avenger which i have stripped clean for my awd conversion project. Now, lets leave the fact that i am going with a 4g63 - and talk only suspension/drivetrain.

I have actually removed the rear cross member and suspension from it (which is the same except the wheel base i believe) and compared it to 2G awd DSM and it matches exactly except for a few differences.

1) The awd 2g DSM requires an extra stud to be welded onto the frame of our cars. The holes are there, just the studs are not. Everything else matches exactly. I have pictures to prove it.

2) The front suspension crossmember/subframe for the avenger matches exactly with the 2g awd dsm one. You will need a few studs welded but the studs to be welded will be on spots that the avenger (and possibly eclipse) frame supports (i.e. our cars just came with the location for the studs but no studs). You will need new power steering and all the other stuff mentioned above.

Here are a few links on ASOG discussing this same topic. Another fellow asog member who is very knowledgeable about this topic is JadedSilver.

http://bbs.asog.net/viewtopic.php?t=24220&highlight=awd

http://bbs.asog.net/viewtopic.php?t=36859&highlight=awd

I have pictures out the gazoo but my website is down so i can email folks if youa re interested. I plan to resume my project when it gets warmer out again..

Vinnie